Casino dominoes game

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on how to spell "dominoes". I posted a few days ago in my blog about how I'm going to be in Las Vegas for the next two weeks meeting with casinos and demonstrating various games. Most of them are side bets, but one is an entirely new game played with dominoes that I call "Twist'em". I'll need a field trial for that, and I'm open to suggestions for where to look first. My initial idea is that a casino with a reasonable amount of Pai Gow tiles play might be good because they're already used to dealing tile games, and the non-Pai Gow players there are already used to walking past the Pai Gow table and not having a clue what's going on. My game fixes that problem as well as the problem of not having enough qualified dealers. (I once asked the Pai Gow tiles dealer at the TI where he learned the game, and he said "at home".)

Please try out the demo of Twist'em and let me know what you think.

Cheers!

Edit: I accidentally hit "enter" before filling out the rest of the poll choices. I was going to add
"I'm ambivalent",
"A casino dominoes game, are you nuts?!", and
"Dominoes are only for playing on rickety metal tables on the sidewalk of La Rambla in Barcelona while drinking sangria and playing guitar."

Stace -
I like it - fun!
And easy.
Very Pai Gow-ish in nature: a high hand, a low hand, and you get to set your hand.
Can be done with three sets of cards - a la Blackjack Switch.

Try Mike Patterson/Brian Doerr at the Barona.

Has Theresa gotten back to you?

Quote: Paigowdan

Stace -
I like it - fun!
And easy.
Very Pai Gow-ish in nature: a high hand, a low hand, and you get to set your hand.
Can be done with three sets of cards - a la Blackjack Switch.

Try Mike Patterson/Brian Doerr at the Barona.

Has Theresa gotten back to you?

Thanks, and yes- we're on for Saturday.

The rules on the demo page say the top hand has to be smaller then the bottom hand, but they can actually be the same, right?

The bonus bet doesn't get a lot of action. I find it a little lame.

Quote: dwheatley

The rules on the demo page say the top hand has to be smaller then the bottom hand, but they can actually be the same, right?

The bonus bet doesn't get a lot of action. I find it a little lame.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll change the wording for the top/bottom to reflect that the top hand can't be greater.

The current bonus hits about 1 in 15 hands. There are lots of ways to do a bonus bet, really - I had another one where it was just based on the player's hand and it paid if you got 9/9, 8/9, 7/9 or 8/8. That happens about 1 in 6 hands, but the payouts were much smaller.

One of the benefits of the current bonus structure (paying on either/both hands getting 9/9) is that if you get a lousy set of tiles, you can still root for the dealer to get the 9/9 and pay the bonus to cover your loss. But there are many other possibilities and options. I could expand the hands to 8/9 and lower the payouts. I could do a "bad beat" side bet where the side bet wins if the player has maybe a 6/9 or better and loses to the dealer. I could even do a side bet based on just the top (or bottom) player score, but that wouldn't pay very much. I was really going for a high-payout bet more than just a mid-range frequent hitter. Do you think something else would work better?

Thanks again for the input.

I'll go look at the demo shortly.
I never look at a thread that is about spelling.
I did return from Miami awhile ago and I can tell you that just about every hardware store sells these card table sized things that are for dominoes. In Miami alot had maps of Cuba inlaid on them alot had beer slogans on them but the tables were ALL over the place so atleast amongst those mile-a-minute Spanish speakers there is a market for dominoes.

I happened to come across a twitter page several weeks ago wherein the Eastside Cannery tweets were all in Spanish so they have a possible market interest for you in that you could suggest that those customers already in their casino will be interested.

Quote: FleaStiff

I happened to come across a twitter page several weeks ago wherein the Eastside Cannery tweets were all in Spanish so they have a possible market interest for you in that you could suggest that those customers already in their casino will be interested.

Thanks for the tip. I'll give them a call next week.

Hey, I just won 585 or something pressing house way.

I don't know how to play real dominoes so I don't know if this is better or not.

I soon figured out the computer was adding up the scores of the top half of the domino and the lower half laterally.

That Player Wins should appear near the players hand though not near the house hand which I figured out had to be the top hand but wasn't designated as such. Instead of 'Bet' perhaps 'Main Bet'. Different shaped area for the Bonus Bet?

Good luck with it.

Hey Stacey,
Been playing your game - and I GOT DEALT 6/6, 3/3, and 1/1 PAIRS. LAUGH OUT LOUD, spelt out! I shat my pants - all I could make was 0 and 0!

IDEA?! - A DOMINO INSURANCE BET!! Best hand = 0/0, 0/1, 0/2, 1/1, 1/2 all totals <= 3

or Single 0/0 = 10:1, double 0/0 = 150:1, flip slip of the 9/9 bet.

Quote: Paigowdan

Hey Stacey,
Been playing your game - and I GOT DEALT 6/6, 3/3, and 1/1 PAIRS. LAUGH OUT LOUD, spelt out! I shat my pants - all I could make was 0 and 0!

IDEA?! - A DOMINO INSURANCE BET!! Best hand = 0/0, 0/1, 0/2, 1/1, 1/2 all totals <= 3

or Single 0/0 = 10:1, double 0/0 = 150:1, flip slip of the 9/9 bet.

Good thought, but there's only 4 ways that the best hand can be 0/0 and you got one of them. The others are
1/1 4/4 5/5
0/0 4/4 6/6
2/2 3/3 5/5

That means there's only two ways for you and the dealer to both have 0/0 hands: either you have 0/0 4/4 6/6 and he has 2/2 3/3 5/5, or vice versa.

I had crunched anything out obviously -

- But an insurance type bet is a good addition to a game. And it's good regardless, me thinks.

This is a fun game! I would definitely give it a try in a casino!

It is hard to find a market for tile games.
I think you're Bad Beat Blackjack and Hard Pass game is Better.

Good luck with your games.

Would your table allow the common practice among male players of raising the next domino and the SMACKING it down hard on the surface, or would table etiquette prohibit such "macho" showmanship (LOL)?

Played it. Love the simplicity and the fact that there is no dubious rotating "Banker" honor. That was just plain awkward. The pacing here is much faster. Does the dealing of this game plan to use just one standard set of dominoes at a time, or can several "decks" be used? Or would the dominoes be specially made for this game, as it really plays nothing like casual Dominoes?

Nice game. Question for you-- since the dealers house way is to always set highest possible hand first, shouldn't the player, who will lose on the 2 copy hands, do the opposite? If I can play 7 7 instead of 8 6 it seems I should, as that will double copy less frequently. Also, what did you figure the house edge to be, or asked another way, how often do you get double copies? And what is the house edge on your bonus bet? Good luck. If Casino War can make it, I see no reason your game can't. It is simple enough. And appears to be a low house edge game.

Quote: MathExtremist

Edit: I accidentally hit "enter" before filling out the rest of the poll choices. I was going to add
"I'm ambivalent",
"A casino dominoes game, are you nuts?!", and
"Dominoes are only for playing on rickety metal tables on the sidewalk of La Rambla in Barcelona while drinking sangria and playing guitar."

I vote for the last one. Except that I usually pay a guy to play the guitar, so as to leave my own hands available for dominoes and sangria.

There are several other Chinese domino gambling games that I keep hoping to see introduced to the West the way they've done with Pai gow. Tien gow would be an example; it is a remarkably different game than Pai gow -- it's actually kind of like Bridge.

Quote: MathExtremist

"Dominoes are only for playing on rickety metal tables on the sidewalk of La Rambla in Barcelona while drinking sangria and playing guitar."

I understand the sentiment, but it's a good thing you hit enter. Otherwise, you, and everyone else, would have had a "WTF?" moment due to the undisclosed limit on the number of characters in the poll options.

I had fun with it, and would certainly try it in a casino. (On a side note, I said the same thing about 7-14-21. Then, after the TCS event at GhostBar, I played 7-14-21 at Palms. $75 later, I decided it was fun, but only because I had a fun dealer....)

I voted "Love it"


FYI: There is an odd quirk to the Flash program. I got in the habit of setting my tiles, then hitting House Way to verify. Occasionally, if the scores matched, it would flip tiles to arrive at the same score. For example:

My setting:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/twist_it_1.png

House way:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/twist_it_2.png

I know nothing about tiles and I do mean nothing. Only learned how much Asian women loved to squeeze the cards at bacarrat on
a snowy night last winter. But it was enough to tell me digital Golden Baccarat would flop at Blackhawk.
So, excuse my ignorance, please. How many dice are rolled to see who goes first? Is this important or cultural?
In the demo I set the tiles wrong at first. I assumed top hand = high hand and bottom hand = low hand. Also I tried to win both hands, which is a mistake, I think.
Tried finding a video on YouTube and Googling , but to no avail. Does anybody know of one ? The bonus seems a little out of tilt.
If you have to play 15 hands ? to win an even money bet ? What kind of distribution does the bonus have. All too often, say at a $5
to$1 ratio on the side bet, a player might quickly realize he is losing more on the side bet than the game ??
No idea how to calculate that happening. As you already know, mathematics is definitely not my long suit.
GOOD LUCK with your demos.
P.S. From watching people stare at the avatar lady dealer on Golden Baccarat I know people in Colorado have limited knowledge of baccarat. Except that
James Bond always won. As for tiles, even less knowledge.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I understand the sentiment, but it's a good thing you hit enter. Otherwise, you, and everyone else, would have had a "WTF?" moment due to the undisclosed limit on the number of characters in the poll options.

I had fun with it, and would certainly try it in a casino. (On a side note, I said the same thing about 7-14-21. Then, after the TCS event at GhostBar, I played 7-14-21 at Palms. $75 later, I decided it was fun, but only because I had a fun dealer....)

I voted "Love it"


FYI: There is an odd quirk to the Flash program. I got in the habit of setting my tiles, then hitting House Way to verify. Occasionally, if the scores matched, it would flip tiles to arrive at the same score. For example:

My setting:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/twist_it_1.png

House way:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/twist_it_2.png

I think that's due to the sorting of the hands in memory -- two hands with the same score are sorted by triples of tile IDs, and if I recall the unflipped tile sorts first. So an 8/8 hand with the first tile 2|4 comes before an 8/8 hand with the first tile 4|2.
And it's not Flash, actually -- it's Javascript.

Quote: MathExtremist

...
And it's not Flash, actually -- it's Javascript.

Yeah, I probably would have said that if I typed slower.

My point remains though. As a sample / tutorial, it's confusing - particularly since it resulted in no change.

Minor Java thingy to clean up that should not affect the game or performance. The simulator makes the game look fun and playable. I spend time playing it there, instead of games at www.bored.com, etc., it is that good. The game, that is, and the simulator is fine enough.

People voted they love it after playing it on your simulator. If people voted negatively (it's a dog/nothing special), then that would be a bad sign for the game. Didn't happen.

Casinos already use tiles of Asian Tiles/Pai Gow Tiles (aka "Pai Gow non-poker").
Granted, BJ and craps are very established and known...
- but for Asian Markets (California, East Coast) an Easy to play tiles game should be a hit because:
1. Some Asian tile players find old-school Pai Gow tiles a bit rough, slow, and old school, and
2. A new and easy to play tile-based game for the Asian market - one that anyone could jump into and catch on right away, UNLIKE Pai Gow Tiles - should be a hit.
3. The name "Twist it!" is slightly lame, IMHO. It sounds like a 1960's parlor game ("twister") or an opening for a rude comment ("I lost bad - and I had my Chicken McNuggets Twisted on Twist it"). Name it something like "Hong Kong Tiles" or "EZ Tiles" might be a good idea.

Quote: Paigowdan

Minor Java thingy to clean up that should not affect the game or performance. The simulator makes the game look fun and playable. I spend time playing it there, instead of games at www.bored.com, etc., it is that good. The game, that is, and the simulator is fine enough.

The name "Twist it!" is slightly lame, IMHO. It sounds like a 1960's parlor game ("twister") or an opening for a rude comment ("I lost bad - and I had my Chicken McNuggets Twisted on Twist it"). Name it something like "Hong Kong Tiles" or "EZ Tiles" might be a good idea.

How about "Casino Dominoes"?

Quote: Paigowdan

The name "Twist it!" is slightly lame, IMHO. It sounds like a 1960's parlor game ("twister") or an opening for a rude comment ("I lost bad - and I had my Chicken McNuggets Twisted on Twist it"). Name it something like "Hong Kong Tiles" or "EZ Tiles" might be a good idea.

How about "Casino Dominoes"?

Quote: NowTheSerpent

How about "Casino Dominoes"?

That will make people think of "Casino War." while that stays very true to the original game, it's still a stupid game. This dominoes game is nothing like the traditional game so the 'Casino' moniker should be avoided.

If you're looking for a different name, I'd suggest "Domino Flips" or something like that.

I agree that the name Twist'em wouldn't have been my first choice. It is not terrible, doesn't tell you much about the game (i.e. dominos are used, form two hands, goal of game is to get both hands as close to 9 as possible, etc.).

I don't know that I have any great ideas to help. But here are some random thoughts:

The best score is 9 and game uses baccarat scoring system. "Domino Baccarat"....I hate that one because bacc is already a mysterious game to many and now you are introducing a new device to an already misunderstood game to the westerners.

You are dealt three dominos so I guess there could be a "Three Domino XXXXXX". Or maybe it is just "Three Dominos".....that seems like it would be the name of an easy game to learn even if I don't know much about dominos.

You do twist or flip the dominos during play.....I like the term flip versus twist if you use one of those but again not sure the action tells you much about the game.

You have a high and low hand like Pai Gow Poker, but Pai Gow already has the original "tiles" game so there needs to be differentiation there. "American Pai Gow" or "Western Pai Gow" or "Domino Pai Gow".

Don't know if there is anything above that generates anything better than Twist 'Em. Good luck with it ME.....I do like the base game, but agree with others that the side bet needs a higher hit rate. To me this is a better game than Shuffle Masters "Money Market" @ G2E.....who needs another way to play poker?

Quote: SOOPOO

Nice game. Question for you-- since the dealers house way is to always set highest possible hand first, shouldn't the player, who will lose on the 2 copy hands, do the opposite? If I can play 7 7 instead of 8 6 it seems I should, as that will double copy less frequently. Also, what did you figure the house edge to be, or asked another way, how often do you get double copies? And what is the house edge on your bonus bet? Good luck. If Casino War can make it, I see no reason your game can't. It is simple enough. And appears to be a low house edge game.

Hey ME- you hurt my feelings not answering my questions...

Quote: Paradigm

You have a high and low hand like Pai Gow Poker, but Pai Gow already has the original "tiles" game so there needs to be differentiation there. "American Pai Gow" or "Western Pai Gow" or "Domino Pai Gow".

I like the first 2 options. For the record, the tiles used in Pai Gow are also sometimes called Dominoes.

Quote: SOOPOO

Hey ME- you hurt my feelings not answering my questions...

Sorry about that - I missed it. The short answer is that the player's best play depends on the tiles in the hand and not just which ways are available to set. I don't yet have a simplified player strategy done. I have the optimal strategy in a spreadsheet, of course, since that's how I determined what the EV was. The optimal EV depends on how many tiles you use, too -- the game can be offered with a full double-six set (0.89% EV) or double-five set without the six tiles (1.89% EV). In both cases, the EV when the player copies the house way is approximately 3.3%. N.b. compare that to blackjack, where if you copy the house way you'll get killed.

And I'm not tied to either the name or the bonus structure. I picked Twist'em because it reminded me of Hold'em and it's easy to say. As far as the bonus, I did that structure because I got feedback that a progressive-type bonus would be interesting, and the chances of the top award are about 1 in 54,000 which is long enough. Do you think it would work better if I dropped the lowest payout and just had pays for 4/5/6 doubles? The pays could be a *lot* higher that way, but the overall hit rate wouldn't be nearly as high. I also had a bonus bet based on either the player, dealer, or both getting 9/9 totals, but that's not capable of generating progressive-style odds. But I'm open to other ideas for the bonus bet.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hi-Lo Domino or Hi-Low Dominoes, Helps explain the game a little. Especially if signage is used ??

Still wondering if anybody knows of any video on line showing Tiles being dealt. Only Pai Gow Poker videos I find are dealt with cards ?

I suck at math. What would be the odds against me turning over double 1, 2, 3, and the dealer having double 4,5,6. ?

Quote: buzzpaff

Still wondering if anybody knows of any video on line showing Tiles being dealt. Only Pai Gow Poker videos I find are dealt with cards ?

Pai Gow Poker is ONLY played with cards. Try Pai Gow or Pai Gow Tiles

Quote: Paradigm

The best score is 9 and game uses baccarat scoring system. "Domino Baccarat"....I hate that one because bacc is already a mysterious game to many and now you are introducing a new device to an already misunderstood game to the westerners.

Not to mention the uniquely Chinese claim that Baccarat grew out of Pai gow ("Make nine"). No, I don't believe it either.

Quote: buzzpaff

I suck at math. What would be the odds against me turning over double 1, 2, 3, and the dealer having double 4,5,6. ?

1 in 7.5M for double-six set, 1 in 1M for double-five. Ironically, the player would win that hand 6/6 vs. dealer 5/5. Don't forget that in a double-six set, there are 7 doubles tiles, double 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

If I removed the 3-doubles pay in the paytable, the hit rate drops to 1 in 50 (2%) for double-six play and 1 in 33 (3%) for double-five play, but I can have much higher awards. Here's a double-six paytable based on a $1 bet with a progressive jackpot:
4 doubles pays $20
5 doubles pays $200
6 doubles pays progressive (reset at $10,000 + 7% action, avg. jackpot is about $13,800, breakeven is about $19,100)
House edge is about 10%

Or going the other way, for the double-five game, I can push more money down to the lower awards and skip the progressive, making this more amenable to larger wagers:
3 doubles pays 3-1
4 doubles pays 8-1
5 doubles pays 15-1
6 doubles pays 100-1
House edge is 4%

Thoughts?

ME, sorry if you covered this already, what is the hit rate on the 3 doubles pay table above with house edge at 4%?

Quote: Paradigm

ME, sorry if you covered this already, what is the hit rate on the 3 doubles pay table above with house edge at 4%?

About 20%, and about 16.7% comes from the 3 doubles pay. That's for a double-five tileset. For the double-six tileset it's 14.4% overall and about 12.3% from the 3 doubles pay -- but the paytable above doesn't apply. For double-six tiles, I could use a 5/8/35/150 paytable and get to 3.8% edge. There's a pretty big difference in the two games -- one more double tile but seven more tiles total.

If you really want to beat the game, try and look through the tiles.

Quote: Keyser

If you really want to beat the game, try and look through the tiles.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this game is unbeatable unless you cheat (marked tiles, use a non-random shuffle, collude, etc.) Each hand is played from a freshly-washed set of tiles, just like Pai Gow. One of the biggest Pai Gow scams in recent memory involved marked tiles coming from the manufacturer. But assuming proper equipment and no player or dealer cheating, you don't have the opportunity to "count" or use other AP strategies with this game. The dealer procedure prevents hole-carding ("hole-tiling") and bets must be booked before you know who's getting which stack of tiles. That's also just like Pai Gow.

But that gives me an interesting idea for a few cheating studies on how much damage you could do if you and the dealer *were* colluding. Maybe I'll have time next month to look into those...

If the new domino tiles are the same as the ones that are used in Pai Gow, then you can still look through them in some casinos. In Pai Gow you can get about a 7% edge this way.

Quote: Keyser

If the new domino tiles are the same as the ones that are used in Pai Gow, then you can still look through them in some casinos. In Pai Gow you can get about a 7% edge this way.

No, the whole point is that they're standard double-six dominoes rather than Chinese dominoes -- my game is meant to be a simpler, more player-friendly and more culturally-agnostic variation of Pai Gow, because tile games are really great but basically only Asian players understand Pai Gow.

But how do you suggest that you can achieve a 7% edge in Pai Gow if you look through the tiles? Do you mean illicitly, during a hand? Because everyone knows what the tiles are in a Chinese tile set, just like everyone knows what all 52 cards are in a standard deck, but knowing that by itself doesn't tilt the odds in your favor in a card game.

In Pai Gow, you can see the face of the tiles, even when they are face down. You can look through some of the tiles. It depends on the tile distributor. No joke.

And yes, about a 7% edge.

Quote: Keyser

In Pai Gow, you can see the face of the tiles, even when they are face down. You can look through some of the tiles. It depends on the tile distributor. No joke.

And yes, about a 7% edge.

Right, that's the cheating scam I was referring to. The tiles were manufactured with polarized markings on them, and nobody (but the cheaters) knew it for a long while. Bill Zender did an article on that. In fact, I already referred to that once here:
link.

Like I said, I'm assuming no cheating is going on. If you cheat, all bets are off (pun intended).

NO

I'm talking about seeing THROUGH the tiles. Not the infrared markings on them. And yes, it would be cheating.

The following article will explain it to you.

Pai Gow Tiles: Security & Transparency
(10/05/2011) Willy Allison
Most casino surveillance historians have heard the story about the Pai Gow dominoes that you could see through with a black & white camera. Back in the late 80’s some surveillance guys In Las Vegas were watching Pai Gow and low-and-behold they discovered they could see the spots on the dominoes when they were face down on the table. It was like when Clark Kent first discovered he had X-ray vision. Suddenly surveillance was faster then a speeding bullet and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. The problem was if surveillance had X-ray vision, did the players?



In reality it had nothing to do with developing special gambling super powers. There were two reasons for this phenomenon. 1) Black & white cameras pick up many different light wavelengths that the naked eye cannot pick up. The infrared capabilities of a black & white camera in effect makes the color red see-through. (Ask any surveillance guy from the 80’s about VPL - visible panty lines.) and 2) Cheap-ass Pai Gow dominoes. The bad batches of dominoes that were discovered were not actually black but red, like a glass of burgundy. They looked black but if you held them up to the light and looked hard, you could see that they were red. These see-through tiles were made in Hong Kong using cheap materials.

Fast forward to 2011, I was recently surprised to hear that some manufacturers are still making bad batches of dominoes and casinos are still buying them. For those casinos that want to scrimp on cheap dominoes, here’s the actual price you will pay if your set of tiles are transparent--a 7% edge to the players.

So what can you do to make sure your casino manager doesn’t see red? Well, apart from not allowing your players to wear goofy looking glasses and weird colored contact lenses, you can implement a checking process to ensure the dominoes are not transparent.

Ron Buono and his surveillance team at the MGM Grand don’t take any chances when it comes to gaming integrity on Pai Gow. Although no expense is spared and they go to great lengths to find Pai Gow domino suppliers that are reputable, the MGM Grand surveillance department subscribes to the Ronald Reagan theory of “trust but verify”.

The process starts with the delivery of the dominoes to the casino. The casino shift manager and the surveillance director meet at the receiving dock and each sign for the pick-up and confirm the amount of sets. The sets are taken upstairs to the surveillance offices. This is where they are stored in a secure location. Only surveillance personnel have access to the surveillance offices however the key to the domino storage cupboard is held by the casino shift manager. This ensures both parties must be present to access the stored dominos at any time. The dominos will remain there until new ones are required on the floor. New sets leaving surveillance must be replaced by old sets from the floor. The inventory must always balance.

Before new dominos are checked out of surveillance and taken to the floor they are put through an interesting test. Each set is taken out of their box and organized into 8 x 4 rows of dominoes face up on top of a photocopy machine. They hit the button and take a photocopy of the dominoes. The photocopier reveals if the dominoes are transparent.

Using this innovative method over the last decade, the MGM Grand has discovered dozens of sets of transparent tiles.

In recent years the MGM has added another layer of protection to the process. After the dominoes are taken from the photocopier they are viewed through a camcorder with a night vision feature. After the dominoes have satisfied both of these tests, they are ready to be delivered to the pit podiums.

The checks don’t stop there. When it is time for new dominoes to be placed on a table, a call is made from the pit to surveillance. The 3rd and final surveillance check is ready to commence. Above the Pai Gow table is a black & white PTZ camera. It is the only black & white camera on the floor and it has been positioned above the Pai Gow table for one reason only -- to check to see if the dominoes are transparent through the camera.

At the end of play each day the dominoes are washed and checked for marks, nicks and general wear and tear. They are stored in the pit podiums and brought back out at the start of play the next day. The state of the dominoes will be closely scrutinized throughout play and at the end of the day. When sets are replaced the old ones are returned to surveillance where they are cancelled from the system using a scriber.

In general I believe most casino equipment suppliers try to maintain quality assurance standards when producing products for gaming. But in times when business directives may dictate doing more for less, it is even more important for a casino manager and game protection professional to check them self.

Click on Bill Zender Pai Gow video

That's classic -- using transparent dark red plastic instead of opaque black material. In any event, I'll be using standard double-six dominoes which are opaque white or ivory with black pips:

In the event those aren't sufficient, I can use dual-tone tiles:

I vote for the double-six domino set as it gives a greater pool of possible hands for the main game and the "3 doubles" pays 5 to 1 option on the side bet with the higher hit frequency.

With a new game concept, I think you want a side bet with a more frequent hit rate (i.e. 15%-25%) so it is a real part of the game action (like Pairs Plus in 3 Card Poker). You can always go to a progressive later in the process if the game is working.

You could even "push" the bet on two doubles to increase the hit rate, but I am not sure what you would have to do to the pay tables. It seems like the getting three out of six dominos to be doubles is a pretty high hurdle, but two out of six maybe too low. What would that pay table have to look like to generate a 4%-6% type edge with two doubles being a push using a double six set?

Pushing on two doubles may necessitate more of a $5 type min side bet like 3CP than a $1 side bet. I used to think that was a bigger problem having multiple table minimun bets out there, but it does seem to be the way new games are going. SM now has Ultimate Three Card Poker with an Ante=Blind & Pairs Plus and a progressive (albeit the progressive is $1). You are talking 4 Betting Units & the $1 progressive if you decide to Play your hand! Money Market also requires 4 Units to play to the river. So having two $5 minimum bets to start the game just doesn't seem like too much in comparison.

This all may be a way different concept than what you are looking for in the side bet. It just seems to me that you want the player to win multiple ways with a lower payout and higher frequency when introducing a new game concept. The last thing you need is for new players to walk away thinking the side bet is a suckers bet that never hits. It is the only part of the game that will offer more variance than more established games like PGP & BJ. They need to be playing that side bet and liking it to come back and play again.

Of course, all of this is my humble opinion.....and I don't have a game on any floors right now, so take it for what it is worth.

Quote: MathExtremist

In the event those aren't sufficient, I can use dual-tone tiles:

Wait a sec...

Dual tone, white and RED?

Didn't you JUST learn that red is invisible?

Of course, all of this is my humble opinion.....and I don't have a game on any floors right now, so take it for what it is worth.

If the only opinions that mattered were those of people with games on the floor, very little input would have real value. I just
wish more people would post.

In my ideal world, this game would be offered for high stakes in private salons using anodized aluminum dominoes custom-engraved by Ronnie Rosales of Billet Bones.

Now *these* aren't transparent:

Quote: Paradigm

I vote for the double-six domino set as it gives a greater pool of possible hands for the main game and the "3 doubles" pays 5 to 1 option on the side bet with the higher hit frequency.

I might actually go with multiple side bets. It won't meaningfully slow the game down and it could bridge the gap between frequency and payout.

" If I removed the 3-doubles pay in the paytable, the hit rate drops to 1 in 50 " Keep that thought for a moment!

I used to think that side bets were seldom played at table games, especially BJ, because table game players were smarter than slots.
6-5 BJ proved that theory to be wrong. Blackhawk had a $5 maximum bet, so during 20 years . 1991-2010 all sorts of side bets were
seen. From as simple as Wheel of Madness to as loopy as Go Fish. Streak was the only really successful one , having 20+ tables at one time. It has virtually disappeared except for 2 tables at the Lodge and 2 at Ameristar. Sidebets are either a frequent hit variety or progressive. Frequent hit seems to have the best chance of improving the drop, despite the lower edge versus Progressive.
In slots a progressive has little effect on the bettor and its still 75 cent, 3 dollars, whatever the usual bet is. In any progressive in a table game, the player has to constantly add to his basic bet. Once he figures out he is loosing more there than in the basic game, he quickly abandons it.
A side bet with higher frequency hits can add to the excitement of a table game. Sometimes the frequency will allow the bettor to feel or actually win more than the basic game. All that aside, I have finally decided why some people play slots, others only table games, etc. It because that's what they like to do. DUHHHHHH.
Slot players are not as dumb as they are all too frequently given credit for. They like slots. My 29 year old daughter was only 16 at the time and had to peek thru the windows to see the penny slots her mother was excited about. She said " WOW! Video Games for Adults" LOL
I think DOMINO should be in that title somewhere. THINK ABOUT IT. 3 Card Poker Switch EZ Pai Gow Poker
Roulette Revolution. Hold'em Poker is now simply called Hold'em because it has captured that market. Hell, even Twisted Domonoes, with an theme song by Twisted Sisters/ Anything from the album Come Out and Play. But not Love Is for Suckers !