Poll

7 votes (36.84%)
12 votes (63.15%)

19 members have voted

7craps
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
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September 10th, 2010 at 9:21:26 AM permalink
I voted that I would not make the bet. Seems my Craps friends have also tired of the fire bet, due to its infrequent hits, so they say.

But, in my same breath, I add still nice to have choices.

Good luck with your "Hard Pass" bet adventures.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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September 10th, 2010 at 10:24:23 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

But you've convinced me to give the "any time" approach a go.

Glad you see my point.

Quote: MathExtremist

I might add four one-chip-wide intermediate strips,

ONE chip wide? That means, what?, four chips total? That means that it can't accommodate everyone playing. Are you expecting this to not be a popular bet?

FYI: Hop bet positions can only hold two chips for two simple reasons: It's not a popular bet, and it's a one roll bet. Horns, etc. are slightly larger because, although they are also one roll, they are more popular. Hard ways are sized to allow every player because they are both popular and long term bets.

You make the box small, and you're just begging people to assume it's a stupid, unpopular bet.

Here's how I see it:
-----------------------------------------
| D | | | | | | |
| C | 4 | 5 | 6 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
|---| | | | | | |
| | |------------------------------------
| | | H 4 | H 6 | H 8 | H 10 |
| | |------------------------------------
| | | P | C O M E | |
| | |HARD|-------------------------| DC |
| | | C | F I E L D | |
\ \ \----------------------------------|
\ \-----------------------------------|
\------------------------------------|
The Hard P/C could be in the Big 6/8 spot, if desired...


Note that I also added a DC next to the stick. (Even though I don't bet the don'ts, it's always bothered me that the one small place for it is hard to reach if you're not close.)
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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September 10th, 2010 at 2:07:53 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Glad you see my point.

ONE chip wide? That means, what?, four chips total? That means that it can't accommodate everyone playing. Are you expecting this to not be a popular bet?


That's why I was asking how tall the number boxes are. I thought they were at least 6 chips tall (from the very back line to the edge of the come box). Do you think it needs to hold 8 or more? If so, your way is probably the only feasible solution: a 2x4 or 2x5 chip-size box for each of the 4 boxes.

Does anyone know a good local felt designer? I'd like to get a full-sized graphic image file for the layout so I can play with dimensions.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Switch
Switch
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September 10th, 2010 at 7:04:37 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist


Does anyone know a good local felt designer? I'd like to get a full-sized graphic image file for the layout so I can play with dimensions.



Try Alex Garay (alexfgaray@yahoo.com). He's based in California and has always done a quick turnaround for me.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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September 10th, 2010 at 7:17:22 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That's why I was asking how tall the number boxes are. I thought they were at least 6 chips tall (from the very back line to the edge of the come box).

Oh. Yeah, when you include the don't come and come boxes, yeah, it probably is 6, or maybe even 7, chips tall.

If you think it will be a popular bet, then it DOES have to have enough space for every player.

Additionally, the player positions have to be in the same relative position as the place/come positions. To introduce a new relative positioning system will kill the idea. Yeah, I know people should be intelligent enough to handle it, but they're not. It's gonna be hard enough to get people to understand the difference between the 'duplicate' hard boxes.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 10th, 2010 at 7:52:42 PM permalink
I don't think this would be worthwhile for the house to do for come bets. Here's why. There are several reasons why I feel this way.

- Center bets with high payouts are guided by the stickman and the pit and watched closely. The worst bets outside of the center are the 4 and 10 at HA = 6.67 percent. Dice frequently hit the place bets and these bets would easily get confused with other place bets. The place / come / DC / Lay area is quite crowded at a full table. That's why you don't see Fire Bets, hardways, and horn bets made outside of the middle. As well, the stick's job is to sell these bets to the players while it is the job of the dealers to track the 8 players on their side.
- How do you indicate that you are making the hardways bet on the come out roll? Do you put a chip on top of your chip indicating that it's the HW bet? You would have a number of discrepancies where the player was claiming it was $5 when the hardway hits and no bet at all (a $10 come) when it doesn't.
- Logistically, it would be a nightmare to make these payouts especially at a full table. It would be difficult for the stick to establish an 80:1 payout outside of the center and for the pit / stick to verify that the bet was made.
- It would be much easier for a table designer to add a simple box to the center of the table for the hardways bet than to put it on every number.

And for the record, I don't like an 80:1 payout but lose when any throw is not a hardways. I like the bet where it pushes if the come out is not a point and pay fifty to one. This bet would hit, on average every 1:59.4 comeout rolls or probably about once every two hours.

Just my two cents.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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September 10th, 2010 at 8:47:37 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Dice frequently hit the place bets and these bets would easily get confused with other place bets.

VERY good point.

I retract the drawing I made, and suggest that 5 boxes be added to the middle, and have this be a stick controlled bet - or 4 boxes in the middle, and one box on each end to initiate the bet.

Quote: boymimbo

How do you indicate that you are making the hardways bet on the come out roll? Do you put a chip on top of your chip indicating that it's the HW bet?

As I envision it, and I believe MathExtremist envisioned it, there would be a new position on the felt to initial the bet. Kinda like the come box where the chips are then moved to the number awaiting resolution.



MathExtremist -

It occurs to me that there probably is room in the place/come bet area to have these chip stacks as well. I.E. Place bets are on the line (or short box, if there is one), come bets get moved to touch the line. Your hard bets can be moved to the middle area of the box.

The puck can be placed in back, on the don't come number box.

Although I agree that BoyMimbo has a point about confusion if the dice hit it.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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October 6th, 2011 at 10:56:40 AM permalink
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Scotty71
Scotty71
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October 6th, 2011 at 12:36:37 PM permalink
Yes. I know its a high HA bet but I would play it from time to time, would be great to make one "for the boys" too. I like your idea.
when man determined to destroy himself he picked the was of shall and finding only why smashed it into because." E.E. Cummings
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
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October 8th, 2011 at 5:42:36 AM permalink
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