Making a progressive side bet by an independent

There are abundant of discussions here relating to game designs. Thanks to Wizard, Paigowdan, paradium, eliot, Babs, DJTeddy and many others. The great advices were truly beneficial to independent game designer or small entities. However, there had been little discussion on building a progressive. The math could be similar as any side bets or new games, but a progressive has to take on electronics apparatus. It takes more financial commitments by the designer and the casinos.
- Does it require a field trial in Vegas?
- Who makes the progressive meters and hardware?
- What kind of financial investment needed?
- How could an independent designer get the progressive tested? A progressive could not be played in the kitchen.
It seems really prohibitive to make a progressive side bet, unless you’re SHFL, AGS or Galaxy.

Are you talking about making the device and system that manages the bet, or are you talking about making a progressive side bet that requires such a device and system? The former requires having a manufacturing license; the latter requires partnership with someone who does. There are many such vendors (beyond those three) but unless you're going to build your own system, you've got to use someone else's...

In general, a progressive should only be considered after you have a successful side bet that's working.

Oh sure, you can talk about it. But concentrate on getting the non-progressive version out there and successful first.

I'm not sure I agree: there are some bets that are only suitable for high-frequency payouts (and therefore not progressive), while others are really not appropriate for anything but. Pair Plus for 3CP is a good example; when SHFL wanted to add a progressive to 3CP, they used a totally different proposition.

Quote: RoyalBJ

There are abundant of discussions here relating to game designs. Thanks to Wizard, Paigowdan, paradium, eliot, Babs, DJTeddy and many others. The great advices were truly beneficial to independent game designer or small entities. However, there had been little discussion on building a progressive. The math could be similar as any side bets or new games, but a progressive has to take on electronics apparatus. It takes more financial commitments by the designer and the casinos.
- Does it require a field trial in Vegas?
- Who makes the progressive meters and hardware?
- What kind of financial investment needed?
- How could an independent designer get the progressive tested? A progressive could not be played in the kitchen.
It seems really prohibitive to make a progressive side bet, unless you’re SHFL, AGS or Galaxy.

The issue with creating simply a side bet, is that unless you will be attaching it to a public domain game, you will need to piggy back onto someone else's existing protected game. You didn't state that, but that is my assumption.

Another issue is that when you are simply creating a side wager, I find it very unlikely that you will a) be creating new hardware to include in the patent b) I find it very hard to be able to profit after going through that process.

If you are indeed actually creating new hardware, you will be needing a manufacturers license in most jurisdiction which there is absolutly no chance you can ever dig out of that financial whole. They are very VERY pricy in most jurisdictions and the testing/approval is also going to require outrageous lab testing fees most likely.

The only feasible play would be strictly to plan on creating a wager and licensing it much like DJ had done. The other issue with progressives that don't include the new hardware is that they are very easy to work around and make a new bet that doesn't infringe. It's like a side wager on blackjack tables. How many similar wagers do you see that are "different" than others in existence.

All that being said, for my progressives on my games, I use existing licensed/approved hardware from the big boys in the industry. However, that is not typically availible to most as the systems need to be reprogrammed and manuals for the hardware must be created specifically for your game, which need to be submitted separately in most jurisdictions. There are a lot of moving parts....

In addition to the last paragraph, if all you are doing is having the casino rent hardware with your wager programmed, I'm not sure where you would be able to get any sort of leasing fee from. The only play would be to license the idea if there is no underlying game the progressive is attached to...

Quote: MathExtremist

Are you talking about making the device and system that manages the bet, or are you talking about making a progressive side bet that requires such a device and system? The former requires having a manufacturing license; the latter requires partnership with someone who does. There are many such vendors (beyond those three) but unless you're going to build your own system, you've got to use someone else's...

MathExtremist, I recall you have a BJ progressive. So, you know the issue well.

I am talking about building a new progressive side bet for Baccarat, a public domain table game. Looks like I have to partner with someone with a license. Could U give some vendors names, beyond the three?

Quote: mrsuit31

All that being said, for my progressives on my games, I use existing licensed/approved hardware from the big boys in the industry. However, that is not typically availible to most as the systems need to be reprogrammed and manuals for the hardware must be created specifically for your game, which need to be submitted separately in most jurisdictions. There are a lot of moving parts....

Yes, for a progressive side bet with Baccarat, one need to partner with the big boys. Thanks.

I think that's the only option. You can't possible afford to manufacture it yourself, take on those licensing expenses, and maintain/service the equipment while being rented by the facility...