Lucky
Lucky
Joined: Nov 6, 2009
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March 9th, 2016 at 7:49:49 AM permalink
Quote: kobalj

...
What advice or tips can you give so I can get the most out of my upcoming trial runs? What should I do now in the time leading up to it, during and how do I utilize it afterwards assuming it goes well.


My two cents worth ...

BEFORE THE TRIAL

1) Make sure you have no lingering doubts about your game; if you do, players will too. So even though you have math and jurisdictional approvals done, remove the doubts by fixing your game before the trial begins - even if that may entail only what may seem like a minor issue such as wording on the layout or rack card. Every detail is important.

2) If possible, get a commitment from the sponsoring casino to provide performance data for a specified length of time.

3) By all means, follow PGD's recommendation to provide a simple basic strategy for your game on the rack card. Also make sure that the entirety of this very important promotional piece, as well as the layout, is as clear and concise as possible.

DURING THE TRIAL

1) Dealer training is usually conducted during the last few days leading up to the trial. Make sure you are involved in the training and are able to repetitively express a 15-second (or less) opening script for dealers to use for introducing the game's main feature to the new players - and a short follow-up script to describe any procedures and secondary features. Do your very best to detect any common, or even isolated, initial misunderstandings about the rules or dealing procedures. I can almost promise that you will encounter one or more surprise(s). DO NOT ignore or dismiss any dealer misunderstandings or misconceptions; clear them up.

2) While I agree with PGD's advice not to 'baby-sit' or 'sweat' your game, you should stick around for the start-up of the trial to observe and/or play the game. The primary value of this activity is not so much to 'shill' the game but rather to listen to the comments of (a) players participating at the table, (b) players who approach the table and leave, and (c) dealers who explain the game and field questions from players. You will gain invaluable first-hand information by simply listening and observing. The 'script(s)' may need tweaking, dealer errors can be observed and subsequently corrected, or the game itself may need 'tweaking.' Better to have this knowledge sooner than later when it's too late to take any remedial action.

NOTE: You can easily find out whether or not you are allowed to play your game by simply asking - first your primary contact at the property. I'm sure the rule on this varies from gaming authority to gaming authority and even property to property within a gaming jurisdiction. As an example, I have been told 'no,' 'I don't know,' and 'yes' in the same jurisdiction (Mississippi). The 'I don't know' answer was given with the permission to play if there was no gaming commission prohibition against it. I asked the Mississippi Gaming Commission and was told there was no rule that an inventor couldn't play his Commission-approved game. So I'm allowed to play in that property.

AFTER THE TRIAL

This will be easy if the the trial goes well, especially if you are armed with good performance data that you can use to promote your game to other properties or distributors. But check back in if you need any help or advice at that point, or at least to let us congratulate you. GOOD LUCK!
"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." -- Winston Churchill
kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
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March 9th, 2016 at 10:50:39 AM permalink
Yes, Casino War is easy but is it too simple? I think there is a HUGE void between Casino War and BJ and that is what I intended on my game filling. Another way to look at it is Casino War is my target game. I am hoping most new players will opt to play my game as opposed to Casino War. Me personally, I have spent quite a bit of time in casinos primarily playing BJ and occasionally dabbling with the others but I have never played war. I just can't do it. I'm hoping Casino Over Under is on the other side of that fine line I feel Casino War crossed in being too simple.
kobalj
kobalj
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March 9th, 2016 at 10:55:17 AM permalink
Not to mention Casino War has a HE 2.5 times higher than Casino Over Under. I'm hoping players will prefer mine b/c they are more likely to win. From the casinos perspective the hands per hour in Casino Over Under is considerably higher than war or anything for that matter. At least that I am aware of.
kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
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March 9th, 2016 at 11:01:25 AM permalink
Wow! Lucky your two cents are worth much more than two cents. Thanks for the great advice.
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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March 9th, 2016 at 1:21:43 PM permalink
Quote: kobalj

....From the casinos perspective the hands per hour in Casino Over Under is considerably higher than war or anything for that matter....


Not sure that can be an accurate statement. Casino War is make a bet, deal a player card and dealer card, resolve wagers...I don't know of any live table game that has a higher hands per hour than Casino War.

Here is a write up on BBB's Ultimate Casino War that was in play at Barona (not sure of current status) Ultimate Casino War. I believe it was offered as "One for the Money" in at least one card room in WA. BBB's game added a couple of basic strategy decisions to standard Casino War.

Simple and engaging for repetitive play by the same players is a very tough recipe...in fact you could say it is worth millions due to scarcity!!
kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
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March 9th, 2016 at 3:02:42 PM permalink
Ok. This is dangerous territory for me as I am not a math expert like so many of you guys. However, I never like people thinking I make inaccurate statements. If I have I want to understand the error and never do it again. Also, as I have indicated I don't play war so maybe this is wrong but are the rules really as simple as "Casino War is make a bet, deal a player card and dealer card, resolve wagers"? I thought if a player at the table and the dealer have the same valued card then they wage war or something and cards are burned and there's a few more steps for wagering. (I believe the player places a wager and the dealer a pretend one or something like that?) At any rate, my dealer help Wayne Jones told me that is what slows Casino War down to be about the same pace as BJ.

Does that sound right?
kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
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kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 107
March 9th, 2016 at 3:18:29 PM permalink
http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/

Wizard has BJ faster than Casino War. That's what Wayne says as well.
Hunterhill
Hunterhill
Joined: Aug 1, 2011
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March 9th, 2016 at 6:46:11 PM permalink
Some of the hands per hour figures don't seem right. Let it ride 52 hands per hour and war only 65 . I would be surprised if let it ride is more than 40 and I think war could be 100.
Don't teach an alligator how to swim.
kobalj
kobalj
Joined: Jun 23, 2015
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March 9th, 2016 at 8:21:05 PM permalink
I would think that is a tough stat to analyze b/c there are so many moving parts. The speed of the dealer, the type of players, number of decks and the players coming and going are some off the top of my head. Until I have hard evidence from a real live casino that element has limited value. However, my expectations are that the live play will show that the hands per hour stat to be very high.

BJ is the game I know best so comparing it to that I think it's clear which game has a faster pace and BJ is pretty fast. I would love to hear feedback from you guys on this subject. Here's what I think.

- If the avg number of cards dealt per player including the dealer in BJ on a 7 player table is around 2.9/hand then that is an average of 23 cards dealt per round.
- Casino Over Under has 21 to be dealt as the player will always get 3 cards and there is no dealer. SLight difference but I then look at how the cards are dealt.

-In BJ the first 16 cards of a round are dealt fairly quickly prior to the first decision then the last 7 per round are dealt less efficiently due to the decisions. Some are very tough for newer players that must take a second or two or three.
- Casino Over Under there are always only 7 decisions and they are almost always easy decisions. There aren't many tough decisions at all (Maybe if your delt the 6?) and the 2nd and 3rd cards are dealt together one right after the other. The pace is almost like playing with two cards per hand as opposed to three.

According to Wayne Jones who has dealt the game the most, he says the pace is pretty consistent and efficient. He said most players have their mind made up before he asks them to declare so when he gets to them they have the answer ready.

Does that seem correct or am I missing something? If so please explain.

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