NTEK / NTGL
Quote: DRichAre you saying that they were supposed to transfer it and they didn't, or that it really isn't an asset?
I'm saying NTGL owns it and it is an asset on their balance sheet.. The assignee name can be changed whenever. Look at their balance sheet. Gaming Assets-IP
http://www.otcmarkets.com/financialReportViewer?symbol=NTGL&id=147747
Quote: wellwellwellI'm saying NTGL owns it and it is an asset on their balance sheet.. The assignee name can be changed whenever. Look at their balance sheet. Gaming Assets-IP
http://www.otcmarkets.com/financialReportViewer?symbol=NTGL&id=147747
Thanks for this, by the way, and yes, I am 100% certain that NTEK agrees as demonstrated by this document that NTGL owns ALL of the patents submitted by Stephen and me.
We are not looking for, nor have we ever searched out the EASY path.
We are truly making arduous efforts towards transforming the industry towards unlimited bet denom AP.
Anything new to report about the business?
*crosses fingers*
Quote: MrVLet's just hope you find the Magic Elixir: my NTEK shares are down 97%, and NTGL is down 46% since purchase.
Anything new to report about the business?
*crosses fingers*
You have a couple weeks left to sell to get the tax deduction if you can use it. Always a positive if you look hard enough!
Quote: MrVLet's just hope you find the Magic Elixir: my NTEK shares are down 97%, and NTGL is down 46% since purchase.
Just a few weeks ago everybody was aghast
that NTEK was at .0075, today it's .0037 and
goes down significantly % wise every day.
They call it a death spiral on the stock boards,
does that mean what it implies, that a company
is going under?
Quote: wellwellwellI'm saying NTGL owns it and it is an asset on their balance sheet.. The assignee name can be changed whenever. Look at their balance sheet. Gaming Assets-IP
http://www.otcmarkets.com/financialReportViewer?symbol=NTGL&id=147747
How is the determination of $739836 made on the value of the Gaming Assets ( IP)? Like any other business venture or equipment, it is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. So does anyone know what they could reasonably get for the Gaming Assets? Otherwise it looks to be that the company had $8500 in assets at the end of September, or about the same as they owe in rent.
Figuring the value of the Gaming Assets is the only way to truly put a value on this company.
Quote: wellwellwellAssets on a balance sheet are valued at historical cost not fair market value(some exceptions to state them lower but not higher).
Got it, Thank You. So that gives us nothing to go with other than what they spent designing and securing the patents. Again do we know if the company has anything of actual value other than faith, belief, hope and $8500?
Quote: BozGot it, Thank You. So that gives us nothing to go with other than what they spent designing and securing the patents. Again do we know if the company has anything of actual value other than faith, belief, hope and $8500?
Nope.
Just "Hope and Change" and we all see how that has worked out the last 7 years.
Quote: BozAgain do we know if the company has anything of actual value other than faith, belief, hope and $8500?
As somebody who has owned a couple businesses,
my wife also, your biggest asset by far is your
customer base. Without loyal customers buying
what you're selling, you have nothing but deficits.
If you own a widgit company and put it up for
sale, the customer base you have is what the
potential new owner is buying. When you see an
ad on TV, who is it aimed at.
This is why so many new businesses fail, they don't
understand this simple concept. They think if they
just build it, the customers will come. Maybe, maybe
not. You're always better off buying a successful
company than starting one yourself. Prepare to have
your heart broken a dozen times.
Quote: EvenBobAs somebody who has owned a couple businesses,
my wife also, your biggest asset by far is your
customer base. Without loyal customers buying
what you're selling, you have nothing but deficits.
If you own a widgit company and put it up for
sale, the customer base you have is what the
potential new owner is buying. When you see an
ad on TV, who is it aimed at.
This is why so many new businesses fail, they don't
understand this simple concept. They think if they
just build it, the customers will come. Maybe, maybe
not. You're always better off buying a successful
company than starting one yourself. Prepare to have
your heart broken a dozen times.
I have run businesses before albeit small ones. One thing that I know is when our bank account had no money and our credit lines were exhausted we were out of business. How does a company like this (and many many others) with no income coming in? I guess that is the purpose of selling stock, right? But if that is the case at some point when people are not buying it, then where is the money for rent and other essential bills?
I'm no corporate accountant but in my business, which is potentially in the same space as NTGL, specific patents are worth what you can monetize them for. Whether that's licensing, sales, or enforcement is a business decision. Bigger portfolios of patents have been sold on an average price per asset basis (look up the Nortel or Motorola deals) but individual patents are usually individually valued.Quote: BozGot it, Thank You. So that gives us nothing to go with other than what they spent designing and securing the patents. Again do we know if the company has anything of actual value other than faith, belief, hope and $8500?
Sometimes that's easy to do because you have a mature market and the patent plays a well-known part. Other times it's all speculation, for example because the patented technology is unproven or the market is too new.
Quote: GWAEI have run businesses before albeit small ones. One thing that I know is when our bank account had no money and our credit lines were exhausted we were out of business.
That's at the very end. If you're sitting on
money in the bank and a good credit line,
but no customer base, you're headed for
disaster. The trick is to build both at the
same time, but few do it that way. The
guy who starts in his garage and builds
on that, expands as he gains customers,
has a chance.
Lots of what i resell on Amazon or Ebay I buy from THRIFT stores going out of business. Salvation Army and goodwill have the customer base. In addition lots of "employees" are doing community service, their inventory is FREE, they wholesale out bundles of clothing and media, own buildings, etc. And people want to compete with them ???
I did not buy NTGL for all the reasons I've mentioned in the past. No gaming experience within the company, the games are not casino friendly. Using the terms AP and allowing players to have an advantage over the house will not fly. The games are very difficult to understand for the average player. No sales in a year and a half.
Since that time it's been mentioned(but I can't personally confirm) that a convicted criminal currently serving time in prison for fraud is still running the business (unofficially). Also, company financial reports are not being prepared on time or accurately. And finally, NTGL is not even licensed to distribute games in Nevada.
I'm all for investing in startups in gaming. I'm all for new ideas. I probably bring in more new, untested Table Games to my Casino than any other Table Games Director in the Country. I also assist new inventors with bringing their games to market. But when all these signs point to disaster, it's stupid to pretend they don't exist.
ZCore13
Quote: muleyvoiceI am amazed at what i see in small business startups here. There is a biz newspaper and they have a new business of the month winner.
I knew a guy in the 80's who had a thriving
pizza joint. It was because of him and his
outgoing personality. He decided to open
another store on the other side of town
and almost bankrupted himself. He couldn't
be in both places at once and he'd forgotten
how many years it takes to build the customer
base. A lot of us tried to warn him.
Quote: EvenBobI knew a guy in the 80's who had a thriving
pizza joint. It was because of him and his
outgoing personality. He decided to open
another store on the other side of town
and almost bankrupted himself. He couldn't
be in both places at once and he'd forgotten
how many years it takes to build the customer
base. A lot of us tried to warn him.
Dear Bob, you are not supposed to reveal personal info about other members on these Forums.
I could make a damn good pizza, BTW.
Focus on that brass ring.
Quote: MrVwhile developing, marketing and manufacturing a viable, "new" gambling game, or hopefully games.
.
Only it's being done backwards. In a situation
like this, with a new product, you wait for the
industry to come to you asking for you to
develop it. Perhaps you put the idea in their
ear and get some casino backing before
development even begins. You have placements
assured from the start.
Charles Fey, who invented the slot machine in 1887, did not come up with the idea in response to a request by the gambling establishment.
The notion of "skill-based gambling" seems to have arisen from the minds of its creators without first being prodded by casino execs to come up with somehting new.
It is a logical progression / extension, influenced perhaps by the phenomenal popularity of video games.
Quote: EvenBobOnly it's being done backwards. In a situation
like this, with a new product, you wait for the
industry to come to you asking for you to
develop it. Perhaps you put the idea in their
ear and get some casino backing before
development even begins. You have placements
assured from the start.
Holy Craps!
I really didn't know that EB was the go to guy for advice on introducing a revolutionary concept to the industry, or just dreaming about it and waiting for the industry to beat down your door inquiring about your new mousetrap. I learn something new most days. There's a couple different concepts competing to be today's 'Ahah Moment'. Jury still out..
And the rapid depletion of the slot playing public. Anyone who grew up at the video arcade or with a home gaming console (or gaming PC) thinks that games limited to spinning reels and matching symbols are too boring. The average age of slot players is increasing significantly, and the overall numbers are falling. In other words, they're getting older and not being replaced by younger players. Read the gaming press -- it's all about catering to "millennial" gamblers. Those people, when they come to casinos, do not sit down in front of a Buffalo or Cleopatra and hit "spin" for an hour.Quote: MrVNot always.
Charles Fey, who invented the slot machine in 1887, did not come up with the idea in response to a request by the gambling establishment.
The notion of "skill-based gambling" seems to have arisen from the minds of its creators without first being prodded by casino execs to come up with somehting new.
It is a logical progression / extension, influenced perhaps by the phenomenal popularity of video games.
They would, however, sit down in front of a game with a steering wheel and compete against their friends with race cars armed with heat-seeking rockets. Someone's going to build that -- or something like it -- in the next 12 months. You'll see it at G2E next year, if not in the marketplace sooner.
There has to be some luck component to beating others, like in poker. The skilled poker player wins over the long run, but in any given tournament, the cards can run hot for me and I can overcome my lesser skill set and beat a pro. That is what makes poker work as a skill based gambling game for non-professionals. Even with your lack of comparative skill, you have a shot.
How does this concept transfers to a skill based gambling machine. You are either going to have a skill requirement that is quick to master and soon becomes irrelevant in the return to player or you are going to have a hard to learn skill where the newbie is going to have to endure lots of "head shots" and a 93% RTP before he gets "good enough" to achieve an RTP in excess of the 98.5% he can achieve by throwing some dice or perhaps higher by learning basic strategy on BJ or UTH. I just don't see the masses putting in that kind of effort.
And I am definitely in the camp of non-believers that a casino is going to put a 100%+ RTP machine on the floor for players with a given skill set....I know there are the exceptions as plenty of folks have discussed vulturing Ultimate X, but that is the exception, not the rule. You don't see video poker out there with base games that if played correctly return 100%+....perhaps when the progressive is high enough, but not right out of the box.
But at the end of the day, my crystal ball isn't any better than yours, so what do I know?
Here is an idea for a simple game: "Doors"
To start, there are two (or more?)doors to choose from; choose the wrong one, game over; choose the correct one, and more doors are visible.
Choose again.
Set the payouts such that after a couple correct picks, you win, and the more doors you choose correctly before losing, the more you win.
Players get to keep their profit until they choose the wrong door.
Give folks the chance to quit when they're ahead, by offering a bonus payment if they cash out rather than keep playing.
To make it more compelling, allow players to choose a degree of dificulty as to "obstacles" along the way, such as dragons, ISIS saber wielding maniacs, thugs with AK's: the greater the difficulty, the greater the reward.
*copyright*
Today, if you look at the Millennial segment and slot machine play, it is actually a fairly small segment for us. On the slot side, roughly 13 percent or so of our actual customers are Millennials and they only represent 2.5 percent of slot win. But that number is growing pretty substantially over the past three years, it is up to 15 percent, so if we look forward in time we can see that segment is going to be much bigger for us.
On the table side, they make up roughly 17.5 percent of the table customers with 10 percent of the table win. It is interesting that the Millennial segment are the only segment we have where table game play actually generates more revenue than slot machines.
http://www.casinojournal.com/articles/90152-attracting-millennials-to-gaming-industry
How does that relate to skill based games? Skill based games right now are as relevant as millenials. The next generation after the current retired group is mine. What do people my age want? Table Games with some sort of social experience included (craps, envy bonuses, table wins, smaller, more frequent jackpots). And slots with bonus rounds where there is interaction. I don't believe most recreational gamblers want to have their skill tested to win. They will take their 3 or 4 percent house advantage over their skill, or lack therof, making them lose.
ZCore13
Quote: Zcore13Talking about millenials is the in thing right now. I believe they are almost no factor. Right now they don't have the money needed to focus much of the marketing to. And when they do have the money in another 30 years, they'll play the same basic games old people play now.
ZCore13
I said this very thing a few months ago
and was called everything but a mouth
breathing moron. I was told that young
people have money falling out of their
butts but no place to spend it. What a
joke, half of them are unemployed and
living at home, and the other half don't
earn squat.
That's where I disagree. The average age of the video game player is also increasing, just as the average age of the slot player is. In 30 years you'll have a few generations of video gamers going to casinos with money -- if the content is there, because otherwise they'll be in their VR rooms playing space ninja games against each other without gambling at all. I don't play slots now and I'm not going to in 30 years. But I'd stake a lot of money (and in fact, I *am* staking a lot of money) on the premise that spinning-reel games will only be a minor part of the floor in 30 years. The bulk of the electronic games on the casino floor will involve actual interaction. Not just "press a button, lights and sounds, you win" or "press a button, fewer lights and sounds, you lose."Quote: Zcore13And when they do have the money in another 30 years, they'll play the same basic games old people play now.
Quote: MathExtremiston the premise that spinning-reel games will only be a minor part of the floor in 30 years. The bulk of the electronic games on the casino floor will involve actual interaction. Not just "press a button, lights and sounds, you win" or "press a button, fewer lights and sounds, you lose."
You give future people too much credit.
They've been playing mindless slots for
80 years in Vegas because they ARE
mindless, and will continue to do so.
If they wanted to think, they'd find
another hobby.
Quote: EvenBobI said this very thing a few months ago
and was called everything but a mouth
breathing moron. I was told that young
people have money falling out of their
butts but no place to spend it. What a
joke, half of them are unemployed and
living at home, and the other half don't
earn squat.
So who is blowing all that cash on the clubs? You know, those huge moneypits that used to be off strip (ICE!) but are now in every single casino. What do you think the average age is?
Saying millenials don't spend a lot gambling isn't the same as saying they don't have money. You seem to think the two are the same.
Quote: sabreSo who is blowing all that cash on the clubs? You know, those huge moneypits that used to be off strip (ICE!) but are now in every single casino. What do you think the average age is?
Saying millenials don't spend a lot gambling isn't the same as saying they don't have money. You seem to think the two are the same.
But what is the max occupancy at all these high end clubs compared to the max occupancy at all the casinos?
How long are the clubs popping each day? 7-8 hours? Compared to the 24/7 casinos.
I would guess that if the gross receipts of these high end clubs were instead spread to the gaming floor management would barely see a difference in gaming. The total population of millennials that patronize these clubs is only a subset of the total millennial group that could be gambling.
Quote: EvenBobYou give future people too much credit.
They've been playing mindless slots for
80 years in Vegas because they ARE
mindless, and will continue to do so.
If they wanted to think, they'd find
another hobby.
Bottom Line : Millennials only represent 2.5 percent of slot win.
Doubt pinball machine will add much to the overall numbers.
Current casino patrons ages 21-39 are *not* playing slots. They're seeing shows, spending $1000 on a bottle of Absolute vodka, and playing blackjack. They aren't going to magically start playing slot games when they turn 40 or 50 or 60 just because there's a picture of Ellen DeGeneres or Chumlee on the reels.Quote: EvenBobYou give future people too much credit.
They've been playing mindless slots for
80 years in Vegas because they ARE
mindless, and will continue to do so.
If they wanted to think, they'd find
another hobby.
Sure, that's because they're not playing slot machines. The reason they're not playing slot machines isn't because they don't like to gamble, it's because they don't like slot machines.Quote: muleyvoiceBottom Line : Millennials only represent 2.5 percent of slot win.
It's like saying the worst team in baseball has a really bad attendance record. It's not because the people in that town don't like baseball -- they just don't like *bad* baseball. When the team starts winning (that is, providing better entertainment) then attendance goes up. It happens all the time in sports. Why wouldn't it happen in casinos too? To anyone under 40, playing most slot games is like intentionally going to a theater to watch a bad movie. The quality of the entertainment isn't worth the cost. It still is for the older generation of gamblers, but look around the slot floor, even on the weekends, and ask yourself where are the younger gamblers?
Will those facebook players leave home and that 146 inch 3d flat screen with holographic features to go to a B&M Casoni ? After Black Friday, did poker rooms suddenly overflow ? All I saw was low life cheaters now in B&M rooms, no real increase in millenials.
Look at race tracks and 10's of thousands attendance is now 10's of hundreds.
Damn, gonna check my temperature to see if I have a fever. I am agreeing 110% with ME. LOL
That will depend on the nature of legalization of online gambling. But people still go to movie theaters to watch first-run movies even though they could wait a month and get it on Netflix. There's still a market for the in-person experience and you're never going to get the same level of immersion at home as you will in a purpose-built venue with purpose-built equipment. That's true for any entertainment, whether it's sports, movies, casinos, stage shows, etc.Quote: muleyvoiceWill they even be going to bring and mortar casinos to gamble ?
Quote: MathExtremistThe bulk of the electronic games on the casino floor will involve actual interaction. Not just "press a button, lights and sounds, you win" or "press a button, fewer lights and sounds, you lose."
But what does the form of this interaction look like using a machine as the delivery mechanism? That is the real question. Is it really "skill based" gaming? Or simply lights and sounds presented in a more engaging format....like VR. You gamble at machines vs. tables, to be alone, relax and "zone out". If you want interaction, you go to a club, a show with friends, you dine out and you gamble at the tables to get the interaction with a live dealer and other players at the table.
When I look at slot players, I don't see individuals looking for interaction while gambling. I find it hard to believe that any innovation to gambling machines is going to create a whole new category of players that turn from their current activity at the property and seek out the new skill based/interactive machines to play. The Millenials that are spending money at clubs, shows, dinners aren't going to decide that sitting at the VR Gambling Machine is now making the list of things they want to do next Saturday night...I just don't see it.
Quote: MathExtremistThat will depend on the nature of legalization of online gambling. But people still go to movie theaters to watch first-run movies even though they could wait a month and get it on Netflix. There's still a market for the in-person experience and you're never going to get the same level of immersion at home as you will in a purpose-built venue with purpose-built equipment. That's true for any entertainment, whether it's sports, movies, casinos, stage shows, etc.
Attendance at movies, based on tickets sold is at 1995 level. Not exactly a growth industry. Revenues have doubled though in a mere 20 years. But it's popcorn and drinks that allow movie theatres to remain open.
Quote: ParadigmBut what does the form of this interaction look like using a machine as the delivery mechanism? That is the real question. Is it really "skill based" gaming? Or simply lights and sounds presented in a more engaging format....like VR. You gamble at machines vs. tables, to be alone, relax and "zone out". If you want interaction, you go to a club, a show with friends, you dine out and you gamble at the tables to get the interaction with a live dealer and other players at the table.
When I look at slot players, I don't see individuals looking for interaction while gambling. I find it hard to believe that any innovation to gambling machines is going to create a whole new category of players that turn from their current activity at the property and seek out the new skill based/interactive machines to play. The Millenials that are spending money at clubs, shows, dinners aren't going to decide that sitting at the VR Gambling Machine is now making the list of things they want to do next Saturday night...I just don't see it.
i wonder how much the " forbidden fruit" syndrome will affect casino appeal to Millennials. Once bowling alleys started putting in pool tables, you no longer had to be 18 and then 21 after 10pm in Baltimore. well. does anybody even play pool anymore ? Sigh.
Anybody remember Bowling on TV on Saturday afternoons ..LOL
Quote: muleyvoicei wonder how much the " forbidden fruit" syndrome will affect casino appeal to Millennials.
Winner!! Winner!!
Although I believe skill based games will have a place in future casinos, young people are not nearly as interested in gambling as generations before. I have surveyed some young family members and friends ages 10 to 17 and they have almost no gamble in them. As a youngster my friends and I would bet on anything.
PS You are really really old if the last time you played Solitaire, it was with physical cards.
The chance of betting some $$ to win even more, it's enticing.
Perhaps we are hard wired that way, may be genetic......
Maybe not, but it is real, multiple billions are on the line, maybe approaching trillions soon...
The games, some of the games, will evolve over time.
Some others may die, others come along and run away with the show.....
Beats me.
They all usually beat me..
But I keep coming back..........
Dem thinking advanced monkeys are drawn to gamblin....
Bac may the answer....., jeez I hope not!!!
Quote: muleyvoice
PS You are really really old if the last time you played Solitaire, it was with physical cards.
Then I'm old. The only electronic games
I played were in the late 70's when I had
Asteroids and PacMan in the bar. So
boring I never played another one. I'm
more of a book reader type.
Quote: muleyvoiceWill they even be going to brick and mortar casinos to gamble ? I remember arguing with management at ATT in late 1990's about land lines. Management thought cell phones would never be that popular or cheap.
Will those facebook players leave home and that 146 inch 3d flat screen with holographic features to go to a B&M Casoni ? After Black Friday, did poker rooms suddenly overflow ? All I saw was low life cheaters now in B&M rooms, no real increase in millenials.
Look at race tracks and 10's of thousands attendance is now 10's of hundreds.
Damn, gonna check my temperature to see if I have a fever. I am agreeing 110% with ME. LOL
It's going to depend a LOT on whether the casinos offer things that capture millennial interests. The social aspect of gambling can't be emphasized enough, even as people withdraw into their devices and telecommuting. Games that are a bore in 5 minutes on a computer by yourself will keep you going for hours when the table's rockin' and the cards are talkin'. Casinos can't do enough to tie gaming to other social opportunities, especially making a welcoming and safe atmosphere for singles and friend groups to come out and play together, whether in their bars and clubs or in their gaming areas.
If they don't master this, for example by depending on electronics and single-player machines, people will stay home and play their apps, or play them elsewhere.
Quote: Zcore13No gaming experience within the company, the games are not casino friendly. Using the terms AP and allowing players to have an advantage over the house will not fly. The games are very difficult to understand for the average player. No sales in a year and a half.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahigh
Quote: TwoFeathersATLBac may the answer....., jeez I hope not!!!
You can disable (completely) skill in all of our games. You can make even money bets, or even to win 5% less, if that is your fancy as in Baccarat. AND you will get a better HA% (1.00 instead of 1.06 as in Baccarat).
Baccarat is definitely not the answer for high limit chance games in the future (for Americans) here in Vegas. Our games are designed to enable those who wish to get a lower HA% and an even-money wager on a simple mechanic. It's designed to appeal to the mathematically minded person who just enjoys taking chances (like a Phil Ivey) and wants the best gamble for the amount of action that they are seeking, even if only pure chance.
We can't be everything to everybody. But if a player wants to gamble a certain way and it makes good financial sense for the casino, it's wise to enable that gamble to occur (from the product perspective). IE: if a customer wants to spend money, you don't want to say "no thanks!"
Our game is designed to be volatility-agnostic: you can bet however you want within the operators tolerances -- but you only get one of two outcomes and there is never a push. It's a purist sort of gambler's game: there are no tricks, but the value-perspective on the gamble is designed to be the best on the floor.
