NTEK / NTGL
Quote: TwoFeathersATLI would say that 'value' is definitively established at the moment of sale. At any other moment one can only speak of 'estimated value'.
I'm probably beating this to death, and probably because I'm not articulating my thoughts very well. So for that, my apologies.
In any case, I disagree that a value is established at the moment of sale. The moment of sale is the same as any other moment. It's really also an estimate. Eye of the beholder type of thing. It is why people get fleeced in many instances in the stock market.
Quote: steeldcoSo you are saying that what he "could" get would set the value? Really? So if my father sold that Van Gogh that he found at $100M then that would be its value? Wow. Really? Even though an informed art expert may say that it is only worth $20M? You're saying that value is only set if the price is high and not low?
You know very well what I mean. If I wanted somebody to nit-pick everything I say, looking to start a fight, I would talk to my wife.
Quote: WizardYou know very well what I mean. If I wanted somebody to nit-pick everything I say, looking to start a fight, I would talk to my wife.
A little sensitive this morning? I'll be the better man and just say sorry.
Quote: steeldcoQuote: Wizard$10 isn't what he could get for it. He could get way more at the next serious art auction. I don't think I should need to qualify everything I say with obvious caveats.
So you are saying that what he "could" get would set the value? Really? So if my father sold that Van Gogh that he found at $100M then that would be its value? Wow. Really? Even though an informed art expert may say that it is only worth $20M? You're saying that value is only set if the price is high and not low?
That is a very off topic example as art is totally subjective and you're entering intrinsic and extrinsic values.
Probably best to keep the discussion with financial examples. The related comments on MC are directly about stock and ntek/ntgl and how MC should not and could not be a pure indicator of a companies worth. The MC itself is of no value and was more or less designed as part of a whole tool set for discovery. My point is that MC has been prostituted now as a pumping tool by scrupulous touts to sell shares.
Quote: sammydvQuote: steeldcoQuote: Wizard$10 isn't what he could get for it. He could get way more at the next serious art auction. I don't think I should need to qualify everything I say with obvious caveats.
So you are saying that what he "could" get would set the value? Really? So if my father sold that Van Gogh that he found at $100M then that would be its value? Wow. Really? Even though an informed art expert may say that it is only worth $20M? You're saying that value is only set if the price is high and not low?
That is a very off topic example as art is totally subjective and you're entering intrinsic and extrinsic values.
Probably best to keep the discussion with financial examples. The related comments on MC are directly about stock and ntek/ntgl and how MC should not and could not be a pure indicator of a companies worth. The MC itself is of no value and was more or less designed as part of a whole tool set for discovery. My point is that MC has been prostituted now as a pumping tool by scrupulous touts to sell shares.
Market cap, in and of itself, is not an indicator of value. It is an indicator of the public's perception of the company's value. If a person is uninformed, or misinformed, looks at a company and believes that it is worth $5M then I assume that they will pay up to a share price representing that value even though most others may think it is only worth $1M or less. More often than not the market cap on a public company is just an estimate of the value. Nobody owns a working crystal ball. The current value is predicated on an estimate of future operations and its current Balance Sheet. The public wasn't completely informed on NTEK/NTGL and therefore mispriced it (in addition there were many others who would have had no idea as to whether it should be bought or not, even if they were fully informed).
Quote: WizardYou know very well what I mean. If I wanted somebody to nit-pick everything I say, looking to start a fight, I would talk to my wife.
get a new wife? younger, prettier :)
and $1.2M still goes a long way
The stock is down to .034 now (.00135 pre-split equivalent). Bid/Ask is .0335/.0389 at the moment. That will change as the insiders try to dump all the fresh stock they've printed for themselves.
Quote: SkepticThe TA is not gagged. Since the reverse-split a month ago they have issued almost 13 million new shares - the equivalent of 320 million pre-split shares.
The stock is down to .034 now (.00135 pre-split equivalent). Bid/Ask is .0335/.0389 at the moment. That will change as the insiders try to dump all the fresh stock they've printed for themselves.
I know that the ta is gagged, I'm a minor stockholder and the TA has refused to release all public share structure to me and stated it is instructed to do so by the company. That's what TA's do, they do the business of share recording and record keeping under the instructions of their company clients.
Quote: SkepticThe TA is not gagged. Since the reverse-split a month ago they have issued almost 13 million new shares - the equivalent of 320 million pre-split shares.
The stock is down to .034 now (.00135 pre-split equivalent). Bid/Ask is .0335/.0389 at the moment. That will change as the insiders try to dump all the fresh stock they've printed for themselves.
In a group of some of the smartest people I know of, I hope most everyone can see this for the scam it was and still is. There can be debate if a former member here had no clue of it, knew and ignored it or was part of it. But there should be no doubt what kind of people are involved in this company. I have posted many times about the scams run with penny stocks, learning the hard way back in the 80's losing an amount that seems like a small amount today (Less than $1200 to be exact) but was a lot for me back then. I felt so cheated and it was with a "legitimate" company who owned the Derby Winning Horse. See Robert Brennan, First Jersey Securities.
Everything Skeptic posted above is SOP for Penny Stock scammers and was predicted months ago when the reverse split was announced. Only question is why people fall for it time and time again. Maybe it's the same reason why the Roulette System sellers and Dice guys have always made more money selling advice than actually using their systems. There is a sucker born everyday wise men have said.
inbox@cleartrusttransfer.com
Just be aware that they will CC: Lorraine@ntek.com on their response so create a dummy email address if you don't want them knowing who you are.
Quote: SkepticThe TA is not gagged. Send them an email. They replied to me just yesterday with the current share structure. They issue so much new stock the OS increases every few days.
inbox@cleartrusttransfer.com
Just be aware that they will CC: Lorraine@ntek.com on their response so create a dummy email address if you don't want them knowing who you are.
Did they tell you what:
Authorized
outstanding
float
restricted
warranted
preferred
ownership ratio and structure was?
You should not have to add or subtract anything from anything to come up with numbers. Also makes a difference if you're a shareholder. However this TA doesn't seem to let one set an account with them. Most every TA will, upon proving you're a shareholder, give you as much information legally allowed that the company has agreed to release.
The TA still has to get it's information from the company themselves. And TA's unfortunately can be corrupt as well.
Thank you, and I do know about the CC. nanotech does that with all their correspondence with the company. There's a lot of covert crap the foleys pull.
The TA has little to do with the authorized or preferred. I go to the NV Sec of State site for that.
Any warrants or prefereds that matter will convert into common stock so they'll appear as increases to the Outstanding.
Quote: SkepticThey gave me the Outstanding, Restricted and Float as that's all I asked for. Only two of those is necessary since the float is just the outstanding minus restricted.
The TA has little to do with the authorized or preferred. I go to the NV Sec of State site for that.
Any warrants or prefereds that matter will convert into common stock so they'll appear as increases to the Outstanding.
Okay, but you really want to go to the TA to get the full story as the Nevada sos is updated only when the company updates their information and I can guarantee the sos has out of date information.
Plus the sos doesn't show preferred which is part of the whole count. The TA also keeps that balance. Only the public SEC filings would show all structure and ntek has been dark since 2012 and ntgl has never been a sec filer. The trash ntek files with the listing service OTCM can not be depended on to be accurate or even honest as the OTCM is not a government security agency nor vets any data given to them. A company pays a fee to OTCM to list their stock only.
Everything else the company publishes with the OTCM is a facade and completely unverifiable.
This is because of the criminal activity of royal capital owned by foleys. Fortunately, the ongoing criminal/civil investigation has the power to make the foleys produce the damaging data.
Quote: GWAE. I will just sit and wait to see if my 150,000 shares of Adelphia stock ever make me rich.
Don't quit the day job on that one. But you already know that.
The prefered is listed on the NV SOS site but isn't broken down by class.
Officer lists and other company info is often out-of-date at the NV SOS because companies are only required to file those lists annually.
Quote: GWAEWhenever I read the last 2 posts, I see words but can not seem to have them make a readable sentence. This stock stuff is way over my head. I will just sit and wait to see if my 150,000 shares of Adelphia stock ever make me rich.
That's exactly how so many otherwise smart people get taken to the cleaners with these scams. Your 150,000 share gamble is the equivalent of wagering $1,000 on a table game that you've never seen before without even reading or understanding the rules --- in a rigged casino.
Quote: SkepticThat's exactly how so many otherwise smart people get taken to the cleaners with these scams. Your 150,000 share gamble is the equivalent of wagering $1,000 on a table game that you've never seen before without even reading or understanding the rules --- in a rigged casino.
Quote: SkepticThat's incorrect. The NV SOS is more current than the TA when it comes to the Authorized and Prefered. They have to file with the NV SOS when increasing/decreasing the AS and prefered before the TA is even notified. It's the law. In fact the TA was still reporting the old 2.1 billion AS a week after it was changed at the NV SOS.
The prefered is listed on the NV SOS site but isn't broken down by class.
Officer lists and other company info is often out-of-date at the NV SOS because companies are only required to file those lists annually.
I don't believe that is necessarily true. Again, whether we agree ntek is a scam or not, we are not dealing with a straight up company that is transparent. Also, I don't believe that the preferred and warrants are included with the 6 million 'restricted' shares listed. That breakdown should be available on the SEC site via assorted form 3's, 4' and 5's and such submitted by the company, which coincidentally, ntek delisted themselves from SEC filing requirements in 2012 and by the TA. When the TA does not give a shareholder a total breakdown, they are most likely gagged. The TA and the SOS depend on what the companies themselves submit. Neither agencies actively seek out this data nor vet it. It is NOT the SOS's job to verify a a companies data.
Part of foleys facade is to sell just enough shares so as not to trigger ownership rules and discovery. That's how these crooks work.
You have been correct in all you posts, but most of it applies to reporting viable companies. nanotech enterprises do not have any obligations to publicly provide any corporate information or dealings. None. What ever this company has publicly provided all along has everything to do with selling personal stock of the founder and friends. There never was a single legit advertising campaign to the general public about ntek or ntgl.
Quote: SkepticThat's exactly how so many otherwise smart people get taken to the cleaners with these scams. Your 150,000 share gamble is the equivalent of wagering $1,000 on a table game that you've never seen before without even reading or understanding the rules --- in a rigged casino.
Well to be fair and stupid/lucky, I guess more stupid. I know the Rigas's well (founder and scammer of adelphia). My memory is a little foggy now since it has been 10 years. During the scandel I bought stock at something like .10 about $500 worth. It went up to something like .60. Instead of taking the money out, I sold it and rebought it at something like .04. It went up again to a decent amount and I sold it again. I cashed out 1k and when It dropped to .01 or .02 I rebought it. After it was all said and done I profitted $500 and ended up with 143,865 shares of basically worthless stock. I should have just taken the 5k or whatever I had at the time and been happy but naw I sunk it all into company while they were in bankruptcy. Well since I did make a profit I was playing with house money, right ;-)
Quote: GWAEWell to be fair and stupid/lucky, I guess more stupid. I know the Rigas's well (founder and scammer of adelphia). My memory is a little foggy now since it has been 10 years. During the scandel I bought stock at something like .10 about $500 worth. It went up to something like .60. Instead of taking the money out, I sold it and rebought it at something like .04. It went up again to a decent amount and I sold it again. I cashed out 1k and when It dropped to .01 or .02 I rebought it. After it was all said and done I profitted $500 and ended up with 143,865 shares of basically worthless stock. I should have just taken the 5k or whatever I had at the time and been happy but naw I sunk it all into company while they were in bankruptcy. Well since I did make a profit I was playing with house money, right ;-)
People like to call this 'free shares', where you're shares were not free as you paid for them. One only gets free shares if an insider, promoter or founder/owner of the company when they get them issued to them. That's why they can sell shares down to .0001 and still make a profit. You can not do this.
Quote: sammydvPeople like to call this 'free shares', where you're shares were not free as you paid for them. One only gets free shares if an insider, promoter or founder/owner of the company when they get them issued to them. That's why they can sell shares down to .0001 and still make a profit. You can not do this.
Yeah they weren't free of course since the money from the sale was in my account. I just meant I used the profits to reinvest in the company.
I know some hot penny stocks, PM me. Can't post here, a couple of other members are watching ;-)Quote: GWAEYeah they weren't free of course since the money from the sale was in my account. I just meant I used the profits to reinvest in the company.
Quote: GWAEYeah they weren't free of course since the money from the sale was in my account. I just meant I used the profits to reinvest in the company.
Why? Did you read the lies by stock promoters and were swayed? Did you read the false information and broken promises by the felon foley himself in pr's and were convinced? Did you come in early and think ahigh was a straight up shooter and honest even though from all indications reading the past posts from everyone that EVERYONE told him his theories were full of shit and he was nuts? And then he proved he is nuts himself? Maybe at the time, you didn't know that a pink sheet company that doesn't file with the SEC is a flaming red flag and they are almost 100% hiding from the shareholders and governments? But that would mean you bought in before 2012 and it was another name. I'd really like to know, but you certainly don't need to respond.
I'm truly sorry you lost this gamble, but hopefully have learned from the mistakes. Penny scams are not 'investments', they're GAMBLING just like we do at the casinos. And like casinos, scam companies know all their cards in their hand and write the rules. And felon foley and nanotech play with a marked deck and rigged table.
Also, for future gambles, know that 'averaging down' is a total lie touted by paid promoters IN THE PENNY ARENA as the stock price, again almost 100% doesn't go back up, only down. The averaging down is something people do with real company's and real stock exchanges with stock like Ford or IBM were real companies have down times but are still there and almost always moves back up and you you regain your averaging benefits. The crime of paid promoters and criminal ceo's of total scams is they use the examples of real companies and real market techniques to sell the fake concept of their companies.
And people are fooled every day. And new fools are made every day.
I highly doubt you were one of the fools. I think you are a gambler looking for the edge for profit. But even gamblers have to read the small print on the lower half of the slot machine down were it says 0 for 3 blanks. And as a gambler, you've trained yourself to cut your losses and move on to the next table. Penny stocks are no different. Only the house edge is tremendously worse with scam companies.
gl and protect yourself and start reading the fine print on the glass.
I believe GWAE was referring to his experience with Adelphia.....not NTEK/NTGL.
Nice rant though.
Quote: wellwellwelluh sammydv,
I believe GWAE was referring to his experience with Adelphia.....not NTEK/NTGL.
Nice rant though.
Yes I was, but that was a nice rant. Actually some of it still was true. I knew the owners/founders/executives and I was pretty much lead to believe it was all a misunderstanding and it would all get better.
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/20/news/newsmakers/rigas_sentencing/
Sorry to go kinda off topic but this entire NTEK thing has struck close to home. Amazing with the Internet and all the info out there that this type of stuff still happens.
gl.
Quote: steeldcoIf you were able to get a list of the investors (?) in this issue then I would bet that you can put them all into one of two groups. Either they had some connection to an individual with the company and were trusting of them, or they were uninformed and lacked knowledge and experience. No knowledgeable investors get fleeced in these things.
I would bet that's a pretty accurate assessment. But there's another group called promoters who don't trust anyone but take their money just the same.
Quote: WizardofnothingBut adelphia was s legitimate company at some point with real revenue
Don't know anything about that company and it's not really relevant to ntek in and of itself. If it had real income and a verifiable marketed product then it's already not like ntek or ntgl.
Quote: sammydvDon't know anything about that company and it's not really relevant to ntek in and of itself. If it had real income and a verifiable marketed product then it's already not like ntek or ntgl.
didn't mean to go off topic with the adelphia talk. Was just giving a pov about buying penny stocks and how easy it is to get "scammed". This is how ntek and other small companies can milk people out of money. How much money do you think they milked out of WOV just because of Ahigh? I bet it is a decent amount.
Quote: GWAEdidn't mean to go off topic with the adelphia talk. Was just giving a pov about buying penny stocks and how easy it is to get "scammed". This is how ntek and other small companies can milk people out of money. How much money do you think they milked out of WOV just because of Ahigh? I bet it is a decent amount.
I would regard Adelphia as a large company whose management was able to scam even very good investors. Enron is another that comes to mind. There are a handful of these where even the best are fleeced. The NTEK type companies don't suck in informed investors. Just greedy types. Not that all greed is bad. I do believe that Greed could be good. However, Greed that has you pursuing things that you have little knowledge of, in hopes of that big score, is what is bad. Very, very bad. You might as well just put everything on 33 black.
Quote: GWAEdidn't mean to go off topic with the adelphia talk. Was just giving a pov about buying penny stocks and how easy it is to get "scammed". This is how ntek and other small companies can milk people out of money. How much money do you think they milked out of WOV just because of Ahigh? I bet it is a decent amount.
Again, using another company as comparison to ntek/ntgl isn't off topic, and you were on topic, but like another member discussing the other company and it's products, fins, etc would become off topic.
People should be able to give comparisons to subjects all day as long as the other subject doesn't become the focus of too much posting. Then it would and should get it's own board.
I always laugh when people try to compare ntek to real companies in the first place. Also, I don't think anyone could compare ntek to any company on a regular stock exchange.
Anyone see that ntek pps is going to .01 this week in less than 4 weeks since the r/s? A 80% loss in a month. In pre pps that would be like .000001 per share. And that's what it actually is as nothing was done to ntek or ntgl to change value.
Also, there were at least 3 known paid internet promotions for ntek in the last few weeks, all the officers of nanotech have bailed, no one answers phones at nanotech Ca. offices and people have gone to the offices and it's been dark for months.
Really telling is one of a few other forum boards called investorshangout that was created not too long ago by 2 or 3 banned non members of another site called Ihub. These members were known paid pumpers and now do not allow any non pumping posting on the site. Sickening. Madhatter, who is also known as Jared, for a reason, is likely paid or a large in the red shareholder, goodbuddy is another paid but truly retarded individual. I could go on, but this whole post and these examples are pretty solid evidence of nanotech being a bonafide scam.
The founder/principal in prison for intellectual property fraud should have been peoples first clue.
ntgl never had a product, it was vaporware. ahigh is a non entity now, although still on topic, but he's meaningless now. ahigh and pals will probably show up on the lawsuits in some way or another. And nanotech will be haunting ahigh for a long time to come. Sucks to be him.
Why are you obsessed with the company- it's done and over with- wish this thread was locked
Quote: WizardofnothingBefore I even clicked I knew you posted this.
Why are you obsessed with the company- it's done and over with- wish this thread was locked
I agree the NTEK thing has been beat to death, but I do believe some very intelligent posters on here learned some things about penny stocks they never knew. For that reason alone I think this have been a good addition to the forum. Obviously there a few posters who have agenda's but I see no reason to treat it different than other threads. If someone breaks a rule, I have faith it will be addressed.
Quote: WizardofnothingYea some of the information is good- one or two people are just beating it to death and reviving it at times for zero reason
Well he is doing it to remind us how much he hates them. Technically, that's a reason... Isn't it?
They also have investors like me that want to hear information from apposite views. Why should this be a closed topic other than you are tired of seeing it? Unsubsribe to the topuc, block it or just don't click on it. Pretty simple.
ZCore13
Quote:Wizardofnothing: - August 31st, 2016 at 12:41:39 PMpermalink
Before I even clicked I knew you posted this.
Why are you obsessed with the company- it's done and over with- wish this thread was locked
Sorry you are wrong. Just unsubscribe okay? I don't know why it was started, perhaps by ahigh but ntek and ntgl are still trading. Ntek is still going on with the facade of being a company. This thread doesn't need to be touched in any way because it's still very viable. As I stated, ahigh isn't or for all intents and purposes involved with nanotech at this time directly, his association and the fact that he is still listed on a SOS business site as an officer of ntgl (even though that is highly likely not true any more) keeps him as a topic of nanotech. All past and present associations with these companies should always be on topic.
This board itself probably could be moved to off topic or something if admin chooses to do so, but other people may still have opinions and items to discuss about the ntgl gaming aspect.
Please use the unsubscribe button and then the board goes away like you wished.
gl
Quote: WizardStrange that a company can be in default and still have a market cap of 2.73 million (as of 8/9/16).
My consultant on that, Bernie Madoff, says not to worry.
Please review them for any administrative actions if applicable.
Thank you.
8-31-16 12:41:39
8-31-16 1:29:51
8-31-16 1:32:24
The last two haven't happened yet, it's only 1:02pm. If you can see the future, let's meet at the roulette table and I'll make you a millionaire.Quote: sammydvAdmin - I believe the following posts were uncalled for and possible personal attacks.
Please review them for any administrative actions if applicable.
Thank you.
8-31-16 12:41:39
8-31-16 1:29:51
8-31-16 1:32:24
Quote: MathExtremistThe last two haven't happened yet, it's only 1:02pm. If you can see the future, let's meet at the roulette table and I'll make you a millionaire.
If users have option to select time zone to display their local time, then the time stamps shown are sammydv's local time ???
Quote: sammydvAdmin - I believe the following posts were uncalled for and possible personal attacks.
Please review them for any administrative actions if applicable.
Thank you.
8-31-16 12:41:39
8-31-16 1:29:51
8-31-16 1:32:24
Asking why you're obsessed and stating that you beat it to death... it's a bit of a reach to call it an "attack". It could've been worded more diplomatically or not been said period, but I prefer people being free to be themselves.
Please continue posting as I have been following along, and I'll +1 the idea of blocking threads you're not interested in.
Quote: sammydvAdmin - I believe the following posts were uncalled for and possible personal attacks.
Please review them for any administrative actions if applicable.
Thank you.
8-31-16 12:41:39
8-31-16 1:29:51
8-31-16 1:32:24
Nothing in this list constitutes a personal attack. People are allowed to be critical of the content of other posts without being censored. Yours are particularly vitriolic; are you expecting no pushback on your contentions? It's a discussion.
Quote: MathExtremistThe last two haven't happened yet, it's only 1:02pm. If you can see the future, let's meet at the roulette table and I'll make you a millionaire.
I wish. My forum time is different than your forum time apparently. I'd be on the Kimmy show by now.
Although, I've always strongly felt that any derogatory remarks or insinuations aimed directly at a member would constitute un-called for behavior and normally would be personal attacks. That's why I paraphrased like I did.
You prefer people being free to be themselves? Then you probably should abolish any kind of deletions for any reason. I don't think it's black and white and that simple.
And the very fact that you yourself stated it could of been worded more diplomatically or not at all just reinforces my contentions that those particular posts were out of line and not necessary or conductive to debate.
And I make full use of your ignore features as a few members do not bother me any more. It works the same with boards, I simply don't read them or mark them.
Thanks for your response and time.
