Table Games Conference 2015

Quote: Ahigh

You are Captain Obvious.

I have been called worse.

This is confusing. So no TITO, how will a
customer play the machine. It is a machine,
you know. Will a casino employee be
there to take money and pay winners?
This seems awfully inconvenient for the
casino.

Quote: Ahigh

I'll tell you what: I chose to snap my fingers, but I could have knocked the guy out cold on the floor two days ago if that was what my intentions were....

As I was walking through the show, I think on the second day, I caught a glimpse of a shorter, balding guy snapping at me as he walked by. Wasn't sure what that was all about. Was that you???

Please shoe me anything in the last months or year that I've said personally about you. I comment on your games and ideas, which I believe is what the forum is for. Press releases are PR. Forum topics are for discussion.

Do companies promote people into positions and have people do two jobs to save money? Of course they do. I'm doing it right now. I'll probably save my company $30,000+ working extra hours. It's just part of business. I've seen it hundreds of times in my 25 years of management and ownership.

Did people tell me they were not interested in non-table games products, including yours and others? Yes they did. Not just yours. There was a display right by the seminar doors that had almost no interest, at any point. I felt bad for them.

You're in a terribly tough business, with minimal knowledge of the industry from the inside, with a product that doesn't seem to fit where you say it does. I've offered you a lot of advice, some of which you've actually done, whether it was my advice that was heard or not.

You can make it as personal as you want. I have interest in that. I said a few things a year or two or longer ago that were bordering on rude. I'm not proud of that and that's not my normal personality.



ZCore13

Texas Switch has a 135% Return To Player. Not a surprise it got the most votes knowing that.

That game will need to be altered significantly.

Quote: Hittem

Texas Switch has a 135% Return To Player. Not a surprise it got the most votes knowing that.

That game will need to be altered significantly.

Truth? Interesting.

Yeah, I learned a lot about table games and folks associated with table games at the conference.

Quote: Zcore13

As I was walking through the show, I think on the second day, I caught a glimpse of a shorter, balding guy snapping at me as he walked by. Wasn't sure what that was all about. Was that you???

Please shoe me anything in the last months or year that I've said personally about you. I comment on your games and ideas, which I believe is what the forum is for. Press releases are PR. Forum topics are for discussion.

Do companies promote people into positions and have people do two jobs to save money? Of course they do. I'm doing it right now. I'll probably save my company $30,000+ working extra hours. It's just part of business. I've seen it hundreds of times in my 25 years of management and ownership.

Did people tell me they were not interested in non-table games products, including yours and others? Yes they did. Not just yours. There was a display right by the seminar doors that had almost no interest, at any point. I felt bad for them.

You're in a terribly tough business, with minimal knowledge of the industry from the inside, with a product that doesn't seem to fit where you say it does. I've offered you a lot of advice, some of which you've actually done, whether it was my advice that was heard or not.

You can make it as personal as you want. I have interest in that. I said a few things a year or two or longer ago that were bordering on rude. I'm not proud of that and that's not my normal personality.

Back to the Zcore response, I didn't come away thinking you were any form of legit because you didn't say a word to me or anyone working for NanoTech but you still feel compelled to comment. Yeah, that was me, and I suspected you would have known that GIVEN THAT MY IMAGE IS ALL OVER THE DAMN INTERNET.

Pretending you don't know me is definitely part of your MO of hiding under that anonymous moniker as you profess that you are a "professional."

But just so that we are ALL clear on what you were stating, it is your claim that WHEN I SNAPPED MY FINGERS IN FRONT OF YOU, you had NO IDEA WHO I WAS at all.

Surely ye jest.

I do at least know what you look like now and who you are. But your suggestion that you didn't know it was me at that moment is EXTREMELY comical.

I -- DO -- NOT -- HIDE

Quote: Ahigh

Yeah, that was me, and I suspected you would have known that GIVEN THAT MY IMAGE IS ALL OVER THE DAMN INTERNET.

Maybe all he saw was the top of your
head, that would explain it. He said
the person who was snapping was
short.

Quote: Lucky

Let me echo Paradigm's thanks for the congratulations and well wishes from everyone.

It seemed to be a good show with some good games, attendees, speakers and conferences. Insofar as regional representation, I was surprised that there was such a dearth of attendees from the local Nevada market. CA, WA and AZ were well represented, but very few traveled from markets east of the Mississippi.

Overall, it was a job well done by Stephanie and the BNP organizers.

It was a pleasure meeting you "Lucky" at the conference. I see a lot of people on this post were not happy about various things and the outcome. I want to congratulate you and your partner for taking 2nd place. To me, it was important to get the exposure and feedback, which by the way was very promising for "Royal Deal Poker". We received numerous leads and will do our best to continue marketing our game. Yes, apparently, Nevada Casinos didn't attend which tells me they may be saturated with offers from new game makers. Whatever the case, I sincerely hope this gives you a positive push in the market. All the best.
Mike

Quote: Ahigh

The guy on the far right, was he at the show?

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Ahigh

The guy on the far right, was he at the show?

First, tell me why you ask that question; and be truthful and honest instead of the way that I expect you to act. Just try it.

I'll just make this point real quick here. I only tried two games at this show. The first one was from someone who came to check out my game, and after he did and said nice things, I wanted to go see his game when he told me he was an inventor. He had the Texas Hold 'Em Game. I think it was called Texas Switch. The inventor of this game was VERY nice and very intelligent. I played his game for about ten rounds on two different occasions and I really appreciated how nice he was.

I was recently invited to an event by Mark Wayans where I met Seth Grabel who became friends with me, and this inventor looked a bit like Seth. I mentioned it to him and he knew Seth too.

The other game I played was Turn and Burn Craps. I love dice, so I had to play that game. I talked with three different folks on the turn-and-burn game.

I made the point to them that they were allowed into the competition and we weren't even though we both use computer RNG's. They pointed out that they also could operate with cards instead of the computer and that maybe this was why we were excluded from the competition.

But it is certainly possible that given that the Wizard himself said that we were by far the most innovative idea at G2E 2014, we might be the most innovative idea at this table game show, and if we were treated with RESPECT instead of DISDAIN by individuals like Zcore, we might have been given a fair opportunity.

I think that it's really obvious for ANYONE and I mean ANYONE to see that there is a possibility that personal politics are involved here related to activites on this forum.

It's entirely possible that if EVERYONE IN THE ROOM AGREED THAT WE WERE SHOWING VEGAS 2047 AS A TABLE GAME, there is a NON-ZERO CHANCE WE COULD HAVE WON.

Those are some big "ifs" and we had at least one ignorant comment along the lines of "the casino's not going to like it if players win!" That comment was IMMEDIATELY DISMISSED by multiple people not at the company who already had the thing explained to them. But ignorance wins every time when you just get the smh and walk away feeling smug in your own little ignorant world.

But the TRUTH is -- and this is NOT a question -- it is TRUTH -- we innovated and we presented something SO NEW that it was a problem for at least one person (Zcore) and so much so that they felt compelled to take action to prevent us from being more successful than we may have been if nothing had been done to exclude us from the competition.

I think it speaks VOLUMES towards the inside the box thinking of this industry -- inclusive but not limited to the slot machine industry. Now we know that also the table game industry has folks who are so resistant to change that they fear us competing with products that are nowhere as innovative as our products are.

That's about it. Yeah. That says it. What I wanted to say there.

Alright.

But I'm sure that whoever won the competition deserved the win, and I do wish the best of luck to everyone who showed their games.

I may never be accepted by the community of table game developers *OR* the community of slot machine developers. But that's alright.

If I am accepted by operators and players, I really don't need the acceptance of my peers frankly. It'd be nice, but I don't really need it at all.

Quote: Ahigh

First, tell me why you ask that question;

I dunno, I don't think I had a reason.
What's the difference.

Quote: Ahigh

I think that it's really obvious for ANYONE and I mean ANYONE to see that there is a possibility that personal politics are involved here related to activites on this forum.

"Politics?"

That implies quasi-conspiracy.

No, I think you catch flak due to your posts on this board, which some view as smarmy, condescending and unduly combative.

As a stock holder in both NTEK and NTGL, I urge you to keep a low profile: just tone it down for awhile, and let's try to make some money.

You don't need guys like this taking pot shots.

Quote: Hittem

Texas Switch has a 135% Return To Player. Not a surprise it got the most votes knowing that.

That game will need to be altered significantly.

Did they supply the math to support your 135% claim?

Quote: mikeabiomed

Did they supply the math to support your 135% claim?

I think math should be a requirement if you are going to show your game at the show. Many participants didn't have math.


ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

I think it speaks VOLUMES towards the inside the box thinking of this industry -- inclusive but not limited to the slot machine industry. Now we know that also the table game industry has folks who are so resistant to change that they fear us competing with products that are nowhere as innovative as our products are.



I may never be accepted by the community of table game developers *OR* the community of slot machine developers. But that's alright.

If I am accepted by operators and players, I really don't need the acceptance of my peers frankly. It'd be nice, but I don't really need it at all.

I agree and disagree with you. To me as an outsider, I believe the industry wants to make money, as much as possible. So to say they are resistant to change, I disagree. I see new table games and variations all the time in casinos. And they come and go because I assume in the end, they don't make as much as the old standards. And it is the player who determines that. How many other games than craps do you play? Even if you try others, I assume you always go to the casino with Craps in mind.

As to your final point on being accepted, I agree 100%, who cares. If you get your machine out there, it get play and makes money you get the last laugh. And to me that should be (and I assume it is) your goal. Any of this other stuff takes away from the product and your company.

As I have said before, I am rooting for you.

Quote: EvenBob

This is confusing. So no TITO, how will a
customer play the machine. It is a machine,
you know. Will a casino employee be
there to take money and pay winners?
This seems awfully inconvenient for the
casino.

I'm still curious about this. If there isn't
a TITO on the machines, how exactly will
the customers play them. How will they
get paid when they win. Don't tell it's
back to the drawing boards again, surely
you thought this out when you were
designing the things.

Quote: Zcore13

I think math should be a requirement if you are going to show your game at the show. Many participants didn't have math.

I agree, it should be a requirement for accurate judging. I handed out over 30 math pamphlets for Royal Deal Poker to different judges and players. Almost all of the 30 requested it. Interesting!

Quote: EvenBob

I'm still curious about this. If there isn't
a TITO on the machines, how exactly will
the customers play them. How will they
get paid when they win. Don't tell it's
back to the drawing boards again, surely
you thought this out when you were
designing the things.

There's many other ways this can be done. It has a card reader.

I absolutely hate TITO. I would prefer if I could just use my cell phone to do everything.

Quote: AxelWolf

There's many other ways this can be done. It has a card reader.
.

A credit/debit card reader? Suppose you don't want
your gambling recorded on a card, I sure don't.
When you win, it goes on your card? Why
would anybody want that.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Ahigh

The guy on the far right, was he at the show?

Maybe the guy on the far right is stv2049.

Isn't stv2049 the trusty NTGL employee that posts over on the casinoKat thread all the time?

Why wouldn't he have been at the latest show?

Ugh oh, just checked that thread and stv2049 hasn't posted since October 16th.

Hope stv2049, if that is him, is OK and not locked up somewhere.

Math?

I agree. Towards that end, I always had math on the game descriptions I hand out, as well as more math and Mike's PDF math report on my site.

--------

ahigh / tito

Seriously? THAT'S your concern?

He figured out all the other crap to make it work and you're worried about whether he can make a cash / tito interface? Get a life.

Quote: mikeabiomed

I agree, it should be a requirement for accurate judging. I handed out over 30 math pamphlets for Royal Deal Poker to different judges and players. Almost all of the 30 requested it. Interesting!

We had no hard copy math reports available. If you wanted math (and we asked just about wveryone that played that question), then you needed to give us a business card with an e-mail address & we sent you a pdf of the BMM Math Report on the spot.

Quote: Hittem

Texas Switch has a 135% Return To Player. Not a surprise it got the most votes knowing that.

That game will need to be altered significantly.

I am skeptical of such a claim by a brand new member without support. Not that it couldn't be true, but this game is not the creator's "first rodeo" & I would be surprised that he presented a game with flawed mathematics

Quote: Paradigm

We had no hard copy math reports available. If you wanted math (and we asked just about wveryone that played that question), then you needed to give us a business card with an e-mail address & we sent you a pdf of the BMM Math Report on the spot.

I would accept that as a reasonable way to provide math if it was required.


ZCore13

Quote: DJTeddyBear

tito

Seriously? THAT'S your concern?

He figured out all the other crap to make it work and you're worried about whether he can make a cash / tito interface? Get a life.

He has no concerns about Vegas 2047, nor any desire to provide helpful comments, the only goal is what can be said next to get a reaction out of AHigh...and IMHO too many are more than willing to respond to the "questions".

I met Steve at the Show (who is not the other gentleman in the pic, I believe) passionate guy (like Ahigh) about what they are trying to do...look, I don't think it will work, but I don't think I have the entire future of gambling figured out either...even a small dose of humulity tells anyone it is s long shot you know everything about the future...just saying!

Quote: Zcore13

I would accept that as a reasonable way to provide math if it was required.

Yeah, it was more of a "if you want math, we would like your contact info" type of exchange. Plus we didn't want to kill excess trees, you never know how many hard copies to bring and end up with 35 extra copes you need to store or throw out.

Quote: Paradigm

Yeah, it was more of a "if you want math, we would like your contact info" type of exchange. Plus we didn't want to kill excess trees, you never know how many hard copies to bring and end up with 35 extra copes you need to store or throw out.

I agree. And not every person at the show needs your math. Other vendors don't need it. Maybe it just has to be shown to organizers to prove it's been done to get you in the door.

The problem is, some didn't have math. What if it's on purpose? What if like last year, a game is ridiculously vulnerable to play that will kill the game. I know as a Table Games Manager it's my job to verify this stuff before it goes on my floor, which I do. But should a game even be allowed to compete if it's not a viable game as it is being presented?

I'm not saying the winner isnt. Just talking in general. But I'll be finding out soon enough.


ZCore13

Quote: DJTeddyBear

ahigh / tito
Seriously? THAT'S your concern?

He figured out all the other crap to make it work and you're worried about whether he can make a cash / tito interface?

Here's what Ahigh said:

'We are table games today and we have always been tables games and we have ALWAYS presented our games as table games. Making false claims that we are a slot machine or that we have a bill acceptor is considered to be damaging to our product and our vision'

He's not going to have bill acceptors on his
machines. He hasn't said how it will work.

Quote: Paradigm

We had no hard copy math reports available. If you wanted math (and we asked just about wveryone that played that question), then you needed to give us a business card with an e-mail address & we sent you a pdf of the BMM Math Report on the spot.

I was a bit surprised that we used up all but 5 of our copies of the report. Because of the nature and unique decks we use, a high percentage of players/judges wanted to see it on the spot so we obliged. After all, they were the judges who requested "proof" of how the game plays out. We also have nine certified HE options to accommodate just about everyone's idea of what they may choose to enhance their floor profits and keep interested players coming back. As with you, I'm ok with the business card exchange. It seemed fair and balanced. Perhaps next year, it will be a basic requirement to provide a condensed math report so questions don't arise and also prevent people from making unsubstantiated claims when they don't finish in the top tier.

Quote: Paradigm

Quote: DJTeddyBear

tito

Seriously? THAT'S your concern?

He figured out all the other crap to make it work and you're worried about whether he can make a cash / tito interface? Get a life.

He has no concerns about Vegas 2047, nor any desire to provide helpful comments, the only goal is what can be said next to get a reaction out of AHigh...and IMHO too many are more than willing to respond to the "questions".

For the record, when I said "He figured out all the other crap to make it work..." I was talking about the physical device, and making it look and feel like a real pinball machine. That in itself is such an achievement that it becomes obvious that a cash / Tito interface should be no problem.

I have no clue if he figured out the 'skill based gambling' aspect.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

For the record, when I said "He figured out all the other crap to make it work..." I was talking about the physical device, and making it look and feel like a real pinball machine. That in itself is such an achievement that it becomes obvious that a cash / Tito interface should be no problem.

I have no clue if he figured out the 'skill based gambling' aspect.

The concept for NanoTech Advantage is mine. Stephen helped with patent submission and some verification, and is listed on the patent, but I am the original inventor.

http://nanotechgaming.com/patents/nanotech-advantage.pdf

I did almost all of the programming on both games.

Stephen did game design programming on both games.

All of the challenging programming problems were solved by me and me alone.

TITO is a cakewalk. Yes.

Especially this first link, it's explained that this is a table game. Chips are shown. No talk about TITO or even SAS or any other slot machine technology. No pull handles. No coins. No meters. Nothing. It's a table game. Yes it could be made to be more like a slot. We heard that plenty. Not the idea.

http://www.nanotechgaming.com/vegas2047.pdf
http://www.nanotechgaming.com/casinokat.php
http://www.nanotechgaming.com/casinokat.pdf

And I'll say it one more time, it IRKs me the resistance to change (what a table game can include).

And one more time: these games have never been presented as slot machines. NEVER.

I would like to hear more about how this table game is operated from a payment and payout standpoint. What labor is required and how do you see that labor utilized in a casino setting. Bob did ask a valid question and I would think any casino interested in placement is going to ask as well.

Honestly all along I saw this as a slot type machine and never considered it as a table game. Do you see it as open and playable 24/7? If so, how do you see it fitting into the typical Casino.

The labor needs has to be a consideration to a casino when calculating potential profits.

Thanks for any input.

These games might work, but have you given any thought to pachinko?

I understand there are electronic and mechanical versions in Japan, and they're nuts about the game.

Too bad their economy cratered: otherwise I could see a lot of Japanese flying to Las Vegas to play pachinko FOR MONEY, which they cannot do at home.

Quote: Boz

I would like to hear more about how this table game is operated from a payment and payout standpoint. What labor is required and how do you see that labor utilized in a casino setting. Bob did ask a valid question and I would think any casino interested in placement is going to ask as well.

Honestly all along I saw this as a slot type machine and never considered it as a table game. Do you see it as open and playable 24/7? If so, how do you see it fitting into the typical Casino.

The labor needs has to be a consideration to a casino when calculating potential profits.

Thanks for any input.

Quote: pdf

Vegas 2047 is intended to operate in high limit table
rooms as a table game that requires an attendant to
conduct money transactions, and who can inform the
player about betting and gameplay details.

One attendant per n machines. Most casinos can operate these near the pit and you basically just take money and charge up an account associate with a card (can even be your personal credit card -- no special card required) and then you play. When you're done if you have money, you go back to the attendant and give them your card and they drain the funds from your account and give you chips to take to the cage.

It really is sad that nobody can get to this information on their own AND falsely claims that we have bill acceptors and/or refuse to accept that we have created what was designed to go RIGHT NEXT TO TABLE GAMES as described by the pdf document and all of our online information for our game.

Yeah! It looks different. It's called INNOVATION.

But it is and it has ALWAYS BEEN presented as a table game since day 1.

Quote: MrV

These games might work, but have you given any thought to pachinko?

I understand there are electronic and mechanical versions in Japan, and they're nuts about the game.

Too bad their economy cratered: otherwise I could see a lot of Japanese flying to Las Vegas to play pachinko FOR MONEY, which they cannot do at home.

They play for money in Japan. They put money in the machine and win pachinko Balls. The balls are then used to buy items. They then take those items outside of the casino to a small shop and sell the item immediately for cash. Then the item magically appears back in the casino for purchase again. Sometimes the balls are exchanged for vouchers which can be used for food shopping.

It's all a loophole that the government allows.

ZCore13

Quote: Ahigh

One attendant per n machines. Most casinos can operate these near the pit and you basically just take money and charge up an account associate with a card (can even be your personal credit card -- no special card required) and then you play. When you're done if you have money, you go back to the attendant and give them your card and they drain the funds from your account and give you chips to take to the cage.

Do you have this technology developed yet? (the load up station)

Do you plan to have a pay station in the pit?

Since chips are exchanged do you plan to have a booth/table with a chip rack? Otherwise how will this exchange take place? Then if this is the case, wouldn't you need more than one attendant, one constantly sitting at the chip exchange area and one who is the point man who instructs the players on how to play?

I also find it hard to believe that gaming will ever allow exchanges in a pit using a credit card.

Quote: Ahigh

But it is and it has ALWAYS BEEN presented as a table game since day 1.

Are you suggesting that your electronic game cabinet isn't a "gaming device" under NRS 463, as opposed to "associated equipment"?

Quote: NRS 463.0155  “Gaming device” defined.

  “Gaming device” means any object used remotely or directly in connection with gaming or any game which affects the result of a wager by determining win or loss and which does not otherwise constitute associated equipment. The term includes, without limitation:
1.  A slot machine.
2.  A collection of two or more of the following components:
(a) An assembled electronic circuit which cannot be reasonably demonstrated to have any use other than in a slot machine;
(b) A cabinet with electrical wiring and provisions for mounting a coin, token or currency acceptor and provisions for mounting a dispenser of coins, tokens or anything of value;
(c) An assembled mechanical or electromechanical display unit intended for use in gambling; or
(d) An assembled mechanical or electromechanical unit which cannot be demonstrated to have any use other than in a slot machine.
3.  Any object which may be connected to or used with a slot machine to alter the normal criteria of random selection or affect the outcome of a game.
4.  A system for the accounting or management of any game in which the result of the wager is determined electronically by using any combination of hardware or software for computers.
5.  A control program.
6.  Any combination of one of the components set forth in paragraphs (a) to (d), inclusive, of subsection 2 and any other component which the Commission determines by regulation to be a machine used directly or remotely in connection with gaming or any game which affects the results of a wager by determining a win or loss.
7.  Any object that has been determined to be a gaming device pursuant to regulations adopted by the Commission.

Quote: NRS 463.0191  “Slot machine” defined.

  “Slot machine” means any mechanical, electrical or other device, contrivance or machine which, upon insertion of a coin, token or similar object, or upon payment of any consideration, is available to play or operate, the play or operation of which, whether by reason of the skill of the operator in playing a gambling game which is presented for play by the machine or application of the element of chance, or both, may deliver or entitle the person playing or operating the machine to receive cash, premiums, merchandise, tokens or any thing of value, whether the payoff is made automatically from the machine or in any other manner.

By my reading of NRS 463.0191, your machine is a slot machine in Nevada. Have you received an opinion to the contrary?

Quote: MathExtremist

Are you suggesting that your electronic game cabinet isn't a "gaming device" under NRS 463, as opposed to "associated equipment"?



By my reading of NRS 463.0191, your machine is a slot machine in Nevada. Have you received an opinion to the contrary?

We developed and presented what was DESIGNED to be a table game. We are still learning the laws in the various areas for what is required to be considered a table game.

But that doesn't change our design and intentions.

We may have to make modifications for laws in local jurisdictions, but our optimal operation does include the usage of a mag-stripe card at this moment.

If it's required to take off the card reader and have the fund transfer require operation by someone in the pit, we can do that.

Quote: Ahigh

If it's required to take off the card reader and have the fund transfer require operation by someone in the pit, we can do that.

I don't think it will matter in Nevada. The definition of slot machine game is not limited as to how the consideration is paid or how the payoff is delivered, and you have an electrical device that takes consideration, plays a game involving chance or skill, and potentially entitles the player to some payoff.

"Slot machine" is defined *very* broadly in Nevada. You should seek regulatory counsel if you're relying on your game being "not a slot machine." I know a few folks, email me.

Quote: MathExtremist

I don't think it will matter in Nevada. The definition of slot machine game is not limited as to how the consideration is paid or how the payoff is delivered, and you have an electrical device that takes consideration, plays a game involving chance or skill, and potentially entitles the player to some payoff.

"Slot machine" is defined *very* broadly in Nevada. You should seek regulatory counsel if you're relying on your game being "not a slot machine." I know a few folks, email me.

So two products at the show: (1) The roulette game from CATCO and (2) Turn and Burn Craps

Both of these games were demonstrated with computer RNG's in them.

Turn and Burn competed in the competition and when I played it to evaluate for that competition, they used a computer RNG.

There was no explanation about any cards until I asked, and those are just for specific markets (like Nevada, I guess) where it would be a slot machine if operated here according to your suggestions. So they demonstrated it as a slot machine, you are saying, due to the above referenced regulations?

It is a MAJOR FEATURE that this game is not prone to dealer mistake. Only mistakes in cashing in/out and/or counting money or chips. For bets that are very large, dealer mistakes can be very costly.

That's my position, anyway. In general, I have come to understand something known as a "waiver" that enables the regulators here in Nevada to cope with when things don't fit perfectly, at least with SB9. But I have no idea if that also applies to regular non-SB9 stuff.

Quote: Ahigh

One attendant per n machines. Most casinos can operate these near the pit and you basically just take money and charge up an account associate with a card (can even be your personal credit card -- no special card required) and then you play. When you're done if you have money, you go back to the attendant and give them your card and they drain the funds from your account and give you chips to take to the cage.

It really is sad that nobody can get to this information on their own AND falsely claims that we have bill acceptors and/or refuse to accept that we have created what was designed to go RIGHT NEXT TO TABLE GAMES as described by the pdf document and all of our online information for our game.

Yeah! It looks different. It's called INNOVATION.

But it is and it has ALWAYS BEEN presented as a table game since day 1.

Thanks for the reply. It seems like a huge uphill battle to get this in any Nevada casino, but there are other options and it is obvious you believe in the game. Changing mindsets of what a table game is, that have worked for many years is not easy. My worthless suggestion as always is to stop being so defensive on here and go on the offensive with the people who can actually make this happen in a casino. Get the game approved and legally ready to be installed and SELL it like you do on here. Your passion can be a benefit or a detriment. I hope it works for you and your company!

looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...... "Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge. Wink wink. Say no more".

Quote: muleyvoice

looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...... "Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge. Wink wink. Say no more".

Then it's a table game.

Seriously, what is the benefit to having your device labeled one way or another? Even electronic blackjack subjects you to a W2-G with a $1200 win. It's pretty clearly a slot, even if players could exchange their electronic credits for chips and then chips for cash. Why would a casino want to do this extra step? Why would a player want to do this either? Imagine running out of credits and needing to run to the pit to reload. It's an electronic game, so just add TITO and eliminate the need for an attendant.

Although your personal opinion is that you have a table game, I doubt you'll be able to convince any jurisdiction.

Quote: muleyvoice

looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...... "Know what I mean? Know what I mean? Nudge, nudge. Wink wink. Say no more".

No I don't, actually. Let us NOT forget what a slot machine is.



This is a slot machine.

Modern slot machines are video versions of this.

Our games are not slot machines.

The END.

Quote: Ahigh

No I don't, actually. Let us NOT forget what a slot machine is.



This is a slot machine.

Modern slot machines are video versions of this.

Our games are not slot machines.

The END.

You are wrong. Regulators decide what a slot machine is, not you.

This is a slot machine


And this is a slot machine


And this is a slot machine


And this is a slot machine


And this is a slot machine



ZCore13

Quote: CrystalMath

Then it's a table game.

Seriously, what is the benefit to having your device labeled one way or another?

Usually operator tax rates. In Pennsylvania, for example, I think slots are taxed at over 3X the rate of table games.

Quote: Zcore13

You are wrong.

I wish things were so simple.

Quote: MathExtremist

Usually operator tax rates. In Pennsylvania, for example, I think slots are taxed at over 3X the rate of table games.

That makes sense, and I thought it could be along those lines. Still, it's a very steep uphill road to get there.

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