Typical lease amount for UK table game

Hi guys

I wanted to ask for some advice if you'd be so kind as to help:

We are planning on exhibiting our games at the Grosvenor Games Showcase in May and looking at the application form one of the questions is how much do you want for the lease of your game. We are new to table game invention and don't want to price ourselves out of the market but also don't want to come in too cheap. In your experience what is a typical table lease amount in the UK for a casino table game?

Thanks for any advice

Is your game a side bet or a premium game that would replace a blackjack game entirely? I am not familiar with rates in the UK, but anyone with knowledge of the market is going to need this answer as well as the genre of the game. Is it a BJ variant, poker variant or a brand new game concept?

That seems like an odd question to ask. New table games, and even new side bets, generally will be placed for free for the first few casinos that take them. Unless the point of the question is based on an assumption that the game is already established in the industry...

Thanks for your response. It's a poker variant table game - It was a question from Grosvenor themselves. My understanding is that they generally trial games for a 60 day period in a number of their premises, after which period they will license the games that have performed well from their respective game developers...

I'm keen to place our games for free so we can start to collect meaningful data and customer insight, after which time we have something tangible to offer to a casino. The game is brand new, a poker table game variant...

Wait a sec...

The casino is asking? And they are the ones who are going to do the field trial?

They, and you, should realize that part of a field trial agreement is to keep the game for free for an extended period of time.

That said, I'll bet the real purpose of the question is to gauge your greed / estimation of the game's value.

Yes the casino (Grosvenor) are asking. They've made the process very clear:

- Come and demo your game at exhibition day

- They get feedback on the games from loyal customers and casino managers within the group

- Should they receive positive feedback they offer to trial your game (for free obviously) in a couple of locations

- If successful they spread your game at which point you would negotiate a price.

Whatever they are trying to gauge I was just hoping for some ballpark figure which seemed reasonable to you guys...

How would consumers/gamblers that do not run a casino and have no idea of a particular properties ROI & Operating Expenses, etc., be able to gauge what an expense should be?? Just saying as a business owner.

Well I know there are game inventors on here who have experience launching new games. I assume they may have been in a similar position to me.

Funnily enough I wasn't asking 'consumers/gamblers', I was asking proven game inventors, some of whom frequent this part of the forum...

My bad, sorry. However, as a business owner the last one I would seek 'honest and unbiased' advice from would be a competitor or industry peer. But maybe the gaming industry is non-competitive and all vendors/inventors have each other's backs??

In my limited experience so far I've had some great advice from inventors, particularly Geoff Hall who was very kind with his time and knowledge. Of course we are all trying to make headway with our games and there is always an element of competition - however as an owner of multiple businesses myself I have often given and received advice (within reason) to others with less experience trying to break into my chosen industries. Perhaps that's where we agree to disagree :)

Quote: alexander80

...at the Grosvenor Games Showcase in May...

I don't know if you've been before but there are a number of new games (although some may have been seen elsewhere such as ICE). Several designers are there, as well as representatives from some of the well known companies e.g. ShuffleMaster. Also quite a few casino managers go along.

A few from this forum should be there and may know more and be able to give advice. I've seen quite a few games go onto appearing on trial, so it's a good route, but don't know exactly how many have gone past that stage.

If you're not familiar with Rank they now have a large number of casinos spread across the UK. Most are medium to small; some are for serious gamblers and others aim towards a younger audience offering an entertainment package. Those tend to have a spare table that they use for trials or carnival games, or give something unique to their casino in town. I like the way they are trying out different games, you wouldn't have seen this approach several years ago, and that's how Freebet grew in the UK.

You can also see the rules for most UK games at http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/ .

Thanks for the info Charlie - I agree it's a positive step that they're willing to trial out new games. I will be at the Coventry showcase with two new games and will post details nearer the time - If you're there please come by and say hi

I would tell you what I knew, but I have heard the UK market is very different from the US market and I only have good knowledge about US pricing.

Switch (who would be an authority on this topic) probably can't chime in as he is now a Sci Gaming employee and that type of information would likely be perceived as proprietary.

What I can say is, you aren't going to make any real money on your first 3 installations anyway, so mis-pricing them to the low side is a bit of a "who cares" to me at this stage of your journey. You can always raise prices down the road if you truly are under market.

Your goal is to get to 15-20 installations, and by then you will have garnered all kinds of information from the your clients, trade shows, etc. Make those first installations a very good deal to the properties that are taking the risk of investing in your game via allocating valuable floor space to it.

You could simply ask Grosvenor what they are roughly paying for their lowest priced premium game on the floor. I bet they would tell you that information. It can't hurt to ask the question and simply tell them you want to offer them a great deal because of the role they are willing to play.

Again, you aren't going to make your real $$ off these first installations. You need a game to work and work well so that other properties are willing to put it in for the normal fee that a game of your quality gets in the market place.....by the time you get to that point, you will know what that pricing should be.

Thanks for that Paradigm. Your view makes total sense - get the game out there first and then worry about making money from it!