Raving Table Games Conference 2014

Yeah, I will also be there for the expo Monday 6:00 to 9:00. I'm unsure if I'll be at the expo Tuesday and/or Wednesday. If nothing else, I'd like to see the announcements of the winners.

At any rate, doing something afterwords works. I have no objection to leaving the "what" undecided until then.

Quote: Buzzard

I was on the Table Game site and extremely disappointed. Clicking on some of the exhibitors brought you to a site or video about the game. But many just brought you back to Raving. Gonna email Dennis about it. Some have video or site that can be found by Google.
Should not have to do that. Not at the $5,000 minimum exhibitors will be out of pocket.

By the looks of it Buzz, Most of these guys dont have websites yet. They just have a logo. Some now go to a dead domain saying coming soon.

Has anyone taken a deeper look into any of these websites that do actually exist? What are your thoughts?

What happened to the games that won
last year? Are they big hits everywhere
they were installed?

Quote: mrsuit31

By the looks of it Buzz, Most of these guys dont have websites yet. They just have a logo. Some now go to a dead domain saying coming soon.

That's both unfortunate and shocking. Having a website is relatively cheap and easy. I'm sure if any of the attendees bothered to look, those games that have informative sites will be given better scores.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

That's both unfortunate and shocking. Having a website is relatively cheap and easy. I'm sure if any of the attendees bothered to look, those games that have informative sites will be given better scores.

I cant believe it myself, but to be honest I don't think it will really matter much for many of the ones I had seen. Just my opinion of course.

Quote: EvenBob

What happened to the games that won
last year? Are they big hits everywhere
they were installed?

War Blackjack is doing well at my place. We've had it in for just over 4 months and other than the cost, I can't complain.

High Card Flush from 2012 is a great game. Players love it and it does very well.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

War Blackjack is doing well at my place.

Didn't a roulette game win too? What happened to it?

Quote: EvenBob

Didn't a roulette game win too? What happened to it?

Not sure about that. I have only brought in the first place game for the last 3 years.


ZCore13

Quote: mrsuit31

I cant believe it myself, but to be honest I don't think it will really matter much for many of the ones I had seen. Just my opinion of course.

I agree, but some do have you tube videos, and like DJ said website not that expensive. Some of the attendees I am sure would like to preview a game, and might spend more time at that booth. 2 do have a website site saying under construction. How hard to at least post how the game is played ? One had rules and play, but not the pay offs.

Oh well, their 5K, not mine. Wish all of them LUCK anyway !

ACES POKER FACES ?

http://acespokerfaces.blogspot.com/2014/10/rack-card.html

I am math illiterate, but if dealer must have an A in his 7 card hand to qualify, does that mean he won't qualify almost half the time ?

Quote: Buzzard

ACES POKER FACES ?

http://acespokerfaces.blogspot.com/2014/10/rack-card.html

I am math illiterate, but if dealer must have an A in his 7 card hand to qualify, does that mean he won't qualify almost half the time ?

I think you might be misinterpreting the rule. If the dealer does not have an ace or better he/she doesn't qualify. That's out of the 7 cards. Two face cards would be a qualifier because that's better than an Ace or better. A non-qualifier would consist of 6 cards that are non face cards and 1 card that is a face card but not an ace.

On a side note, the game is basically a copy of High Card Flush, except they are using Aces and Faces (16 possible good cards to get a winning hand) instead of suits (13 possibilities).


ZCore13

Two sixes is higher than a Ace also. And the rack card does not say how many cards the dealer gets.

The inventor is also a sponsor at Raving ? What the hell does that mean, I wonder ?

Quote: Buzzard

Two sixes is higher than a Ace also. And the rack card does not say how many cards the dealer gets.

The inventor is also a sponsor at Raving ? What the hell does that mean, I wonder ?

Two sixes is not higher than an ace. Only Aces and Faces count. Four sixes would just be four bad cards in this game.

ZCore13

You can't tell that by the rack card . Oh well, this game might get the GOLD anyway.

Quote: EvenBob

What happened to the games that won
last year? Are they big hits everywhere
they were installed?

EvenBob, ask that questions next year . Look how long it took Let it Ride to become Let It Die ? The winner did benefit from Casino magazine coverage to get placements before selling.

Remember "magazines", Bob ? I do. Was in Hastings yesterday. Get $5 off if you buy three magazines. Found 2 of Josies for 2.99. Looked for a Casino mag or the 5 or 6 poker magazines I read a few years ago, like Bluff, WPT, etc.

GONE. Where racks had 5 rows of magazines, now same magazine on all 5 rows. Same with main streams magazines !

Quote: Zcore13

On a side note, the game is basically a copy of High Card Flush, except they are using Aces and Faces (16 possible good cards to get a winning hand) instead of suits (13 possibilities).


ZCore13

Good point.

I actually have an important question about this game. (Aces Poker Faces)

Since there is only a limited number of cards that can possibly win (16 total) unlike in high card flush (all 52), cant the players easily conspire or simply just look to see how many cards each player discards and add up the number of outstanding that may or may not be left in the deck to determine if the dealer could possibly even possess qualifying hand. The suits in high card are different because there is 13 of each, so any number of good cards can be left in the deck to make the dealers hand.

Actually, if you think about it. you could know exactly what the dealer is holding. If its dealt like high card, all cards are dealt except those last 3. you literally will know, virtually exactly what the dealer is holding at all times if you pay attention.

Am I missing something, or is this a big problem?

Flaws:(beatable)

player 1- holds 3 (faces or aces, doesnt even matter which specifically)
player 2- holds 2
player 3- holds 4
player 4- holds 1
player 5- holds 2
player 6- holds 3

15 of 16 out, dealer can only possess 1 if any... Everyone knows they will win so no reason to fold. Only person here that needs to make a judgement on his card is player 4

on the flip side

Player 1- holds 1
player 2- Holds 1
Player 3- holds 2
Player 4- holds 2
player 5- holds 2
player 6- holds 2

10 out of 16 dealt. dealer hold at a minimum of 3 faces or aces. EVERYONE FOLDS AND DOESNT PLAY

Another scenario

Player 1- holds 6
player 2- Holds 6
Player 3- holds 1
Player 4- holds 1
player 5- holds 1
player 6- holds 1

all 16 dealt out. dealer cant have any, players 3, 4, 5 and 6 play, knowing they cant lose.

Maybe it's not single deck??


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Maybe it's not single deck??


ZCore13

I certainly hope so! Its not on the rack card. If not, they need to hear this.

EDIT:
Even if it is multi-deck, still countable.

Quote: mrsuit31

I certainly hope so! Its not on the rack card. If not, they need to hear this.

The guy that owns it is the same guy that owned and sold War Blackjack. He's a very smart guy. I'm sure he's done his homework.

ZCore13

Heading for Vegas to attend Ravings.
Have openings for a game of golf on any of the following days:

Saturday
Sunday
Monday
Thursday

PM if interested.

.....

Quote: vegas702

Is there any way to get in without paying a huge fee to just look around ?

To the conference or the golf courses :)

Quote: vegas702

Is there any way to get in without paying a huge fee to just look around ?

Yeah. Or at least there was.

As you may recall, earlier in this thread I was asking the same question.

About a month ago, I made some calls to the conference organizers. I told them why I wanted to go, and they said that I can go at a reduced price, but it's something they don't normally offer, which is why it's not on the website. That's also why I kept quiet about it.

Of course, that was before October 31, the day that the regular registration prices go up. So it's probably not available any more.

I have another question about one of the games entered to the show. Is the "the 18 bet" the same company as the Instant 18 bet.

For all I know, this game is the same company. But if it isn't this is something that needs to be addressed with the Raving crew.

If you go to the Instant 18 website your will see that this is the same game but was purchased by a new company. They are bringing a different game to the show & not the Instant 18 BJ side bet from what I gathered from the competition games list.

Very Curious to hear a game breakdown when someone who is there gets around to it...

Quote: mrsuit31

Very Curious to hear a game breakdown when someone who is there gets around to it...

Here are some of the games represented who were not also at G2E. I plan to write more details in my blog at WoO. Click on any image for larger version.

pick'em Blackjack won 1st place. Aces Faces poker got 2nd. Switch Hands Blackjack 3rd.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

pick'em Blackjack won 1st place. Aces Faces poker got 2nd. Switch Hands Blackjack 3rd.

Congratulations to them! Couple very nice well-dressed guys behind the game. I wish them success.

For those who aren't familiar with the game, it is like Instant 18, but the player can choose an instant 17, 18, or 19. As I recall, the 17 pays 3-2, 18 pays 1-1, and 19 pays 1-2.

Quote: Wizard

Congratulations to them! Couple very nice well-dressed guys behind the game. I wish them success.

For those who aren't familiar with the game, it is like Instant 18, but the player can choose an instant 17, 18, or 19. As I recall, the 17 pays 3-2, 18 pays 1-1, and 19 pays 1-2.

That is correct. And I agree. Nice young men that won it. Some good competition with a couple very innovative games and some excellent speakers.


ZCore13

Great pictures! Marriage seems to be agreeing with our friend Angela.

Z -
Do you know who won the $500 drawing? Wink, wink...



FYI:
Voting participants were encouraged fill out their ballots by being entered into a $500 prize drawing.

Hmmmm. Not sure. Nice meeting you though. Sorry to not be able to stick around and chat with you. Had to go get the winners my card and get out of town.


ZCore13

Isn't that the same roulette game that won last year?

I just finished a first draft of my latest blog entry -- Raving Table Games Show 2014.

Please have a look and leave your comments. Also, which is your favorite game of the show this year?

A couple of things... You mention for pick'em blackjack that the player can play regular blackjack or forsake it and play with 17, 18 or 19 to start. They can actually also play regular blackjack AND play any combination of the 3 side bets or all of them, having up to 4 hands at once (1 with cards and 3 preprinted on the table)

Also, I can scan and send documentation to you for most if not all the games you are missing. I thought eTableGames game had a good shot of winning had they made it into the competition.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

A couple of things... You mention for pick'em blackjack that the player can play regular blackjack or forsake it and play with 17, 18 or 19 to start. They can actually also play regular blackjack AND play any combination of the 3 side bets or all of them, having up to 4 hands at once (1 with cards and 3 preprinted on the table)

Also, I can scan and send documentation to you for most if not all the games you are missing. I thought eTableGames game had a good shot of winning had they made it into the competition.

Thanks for the correction and the offer. I just sent you a PM on how to send the scans.

Quote: Zcore13

Also, I can scan and send documentation to you for most if not all the games you are missing. I thought eTableGames game had a good shot of winning had they made it into the competition.


ZCore13

Thanks, Zcore, we agree with your assessment on "4 Card Split" wholeheartedly. :-))) We got our final math report from Stephen How on 11/12 and was too late to join the contest (the Conference only took 20 entries.) I have sent Wizard our docs and hopefully he could kindly add some info to the blog. BTW, Angela did shine very well with our game; she was a true pro and has been booked for the 2015's show.

Quote: EvenBob

Isn't that the same roulette game that won last year?

They added the "Rainbow Bet" which is like the Fire Bet in craps and wins based on the number of colors hit before a white slot comes up (like 7 out in craps).

Thanks for the blog on the entries, Wiz! I was feeling like the coverage/discussion on the games was pretty scant compared to the last couple of years and trying to decode the pictures you posted earlier. I'll go back and look again once you've incorporated Zcore's info. But I thought the blog was pretty comprehensive already.

Was there any more info anybody cared to share from the sessions, or day 2 or 3 exhibits (beyond who won)?

If I have some time and anyone cares I can do a few reviews of what I thought were some of the better/interesting games, from my perspective of looking for games to put on the floor.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

If I have some time and anyone cares I can do a few reviews of what I thought were some of the better/interesting games, from my perspective of looking for games to put on the floor.

I care.

Quote: Zcore13

If I have some time and anyone cares I can do a few reviews of what I thought were some of the better/interesting games, from my perspective of looking for games to put on the floor.


ZCore13

As I mentioned above, I'd be very interested in what you have to report.

Quote: Wizard

I care.

As do I

Quote: Zcore13

If I have some time and anyone cares I can do a few reviews of what I thought were some of the better/interesting games, from my perspective of looking for games to put on the floor.


ZCore13

Zcore, please.

This is my review of top 3 winning Table Games at the 2015 Raving Table Games Conference. These reviews are from the perspective of a Table Games Manager. I’ll share some of my thoughts as I played the games and afterwards thinking about them. Most if not all of the games at the show were fun to play, but that does not mean they would be a game I would choose to put on the floor. The wizard did a good job in giving the basic descriptions of the games, so I’m not going to re-do his efforts on that. I’ll add more games over the next week as time allows me to.

Pick’em Blackjack (First Place Winner)

Interesting game with some proof the concept works since “The 18 Bet” has current installs and is one of the choices in this “pick’em” version. I like that regular blackjack play is not affected by the side bets. I don’t like side bets that change the way the main game is played. Players are dealt cards and play blackjack as normal with their dealt cards. The side bet hands use the cards pre-printed on the layout. 17 is a face card and a 7, 18 a face card and a 8 and 19 a face card and a 9. Cards from the shoe are not used for these hands and there is no hitting them.

I don’t have any statistics to prove it, but it would seem the game could be counted. Starting with 17, 18 or 19 obviously takes some of the chance out of the player hand. It can’t bust. So if the deck is full of face cards I would think that’s not the time to place these bets.

This could be concerning, so I am pretty sure I would limit the side bet amounts. I don’t think I would allow the normal bet spreads ($5 - $250 or $25 - $1,000 for example) to apply to the side bets, but because the payouts are only 3:2, 1:1 and 1:2, higher dollar players are not going to have much interest in the side bets. Players playing $100 -$1,000 a hand are not going to care about a 1:2 $25 side bet wining $12.50. On the other hand, I think lower limit players will have fun starting with these hands and can see players choosing to play their main hand and all the side bets at the same time.

Another slight concern is that players can’t misplay their hands when playing the additional hands. Part of the reason Casinos win lots and lots of money on a game that has a house edge of under 1% (closer to .5% in many cases) is that players don’t play correctly. There is no way to misplay starting with a 18 or 19 although maybe the fact that choosing to start with a 17 is a misplay in itself, that might negate the others.

I’m not even sure if I should consider this a side bet game. It’s really just allowing players to play additional hands of blackjack. I might consider throwing a progressive on it as well. This would give players a shot at a larger payout for things like winning all 4 hands, maybe if all 4 or 3 or something like that are all the same color. We’ll see how things go over the next month or so.


Aces Faces Poker (Second Place Winner)

This game surprised me. I did not have it in my top 3. The fact that it’s basically a copy of High Card Flush, the 2012 Raving Winner, set it back in my mind. Playing it was pretty fun, but as I mentioned, I have to be concerned with other aspects as well. This game is highly countable. With only Aces and Face cards serving as useable cards, I believe someone could sit in the middle of the table and see at least 2 others peoples cards around them, maybe even more. Once you see how many Aces and Faces there are in people’s hands, that will give you a tremendous clue as to how many the dealer could have. With that knowledge it would seem you can adjust the strategy of when it’s best to play against the dealer and when it’s best to fold. If one could collude with the whole table, I’m pretty sure the game would be closed down in a matter of days.

As the game stands now, I would not put this game on my floor under any circumstances. I would have been put in a tough spot had it won the competition since my property is one of the prizes for an installation for the winner.


Switch Hands Blackjack (Third Place Winner)

As was the Wizard, I am surprised this concept has not been used before. Very simple to describe to a player and very easy to learn and play. If you make the side bet you place $1 for every $5 on the main bet. You get dealt two hands. One face up and one face down. You then choose if you want to keep the two cards you have and can see versus the dealers up card or switch to the face down unknown hand.

For the house, the 20% fee is taken whether you actually switch hands or not. The giveback on that is that all suited and same color blackjacks pay 2-1 if you played the side bet. One thing I liked from a Management view is that this game puts a huge dent into, if not completely ends the worries about counting. The hands that are dealt face down and not used are never exposed.

That being said, the game didn’t excite me all that much and with 2-1 being the highest possible payout on the table, there was no real wow factor for me. I think players want to play side bets where they have a chance to win larger amounts of money than what they can normally win playing the main game. When I look for new games I look for some excitement, something that makes a player say "wow" when you teach them the game. I also like the community feeling some games allow the players. This one just didn't have any of that for me.



ZCore13

If I understand correctly in Switch Hands Blackjack you are paying a 20% fee to have the option of switching out your cards.

If this is correct, would this be legal in most U.S. jurisdictions? I was under the impression that in Nevada any money put up had to be a wager with a possible winning outcome.

Quote: DRich

If I understand correctly in Switch Hands Blackjack you are paying a 20% fee to have the option of switching out your cards.

If this is correct, would this be legal in most U.S. jurisdictions? I was under the impression that in Nevada any money put up had to be a wager with a possible winning outcome.

Yes, that is correct on how the game is played. I do not know about the legality of the bet. If that is the case I would guess they could take back the 2-1 and only charge the fee if you actually switch.

ZCore13