Raving Table Games Conference 2014
August 7th, 2014 at 11:45:25 PM
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It seem that this topic is starting to get some comments in other threads, I thought it deserved its own thread.
Doesn't appear that Galaxy is sponsoring the winners this year, which is not surprising. I don't think they got much out of last year's sponsorship as War BJ didn't sign a deal with them. The Luck Bros didn't really need the offerings that were made for 2nd place and "3 to 1 Blackjack" already had a placement lined up in Kansas City.
What is curious is whether Galaxy or Bally/SHFL/SG or DEQ or other distributors are going to enter the competition this year. I say why not......you are going to have to compete against those games in front of a DTG, why not do it as part of the Raving competition. This isn't the Little League WS.....it is the table games biz and it is brutally competitive.
There were 30 games on the floor last year, but the ones from SHFL (2) and Galaxy (4) were not in the competition. I think there were only 24 games eligible for the voting.
Doesn't appear that Galaxy is sponsoring the winners this year, which is not surprising. I don't think they got much out of last year's sponsorship as War BJ didn't sign a deal with them. The Luck Bros didn't really need the offerings that were made for 2nd place and "3 to 1 Blackjack" already had a placement lined up in Kansas City.
What is curious is whether Galaxy or Bally/SHFL/SG or DEQ or other distributors are going to enter the competition this year. I say why not......you are going to have to compete against those games in front of a DTG, why not do it as part of the Raving competition. This isn't the Little League WS.....it is the table games biz and it is brutally competitive.
There were 30 games on the floor last year, but the ones from SHFL (2) and Galaxy (4) were not in the competition. I think there were only 24 games eligible for the voting.
August 8th, 2014 at 12:09:42 AM
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Did Aristocrat take any space?
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
August 8th, 2014 at 9:24:50 AM
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Not that I am aware of.......this is a table games only conference and I thought Aristocrat was a pure slot company.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:54:46 AM
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In case anyone is wondering, the show is Nov 17-19 at the Paris.
www.tablegamesconf.com
If there is enough interest, perhaps we can have a WoV event immediately before or after.
www.tablegamesconf.com
If there is enough interest, perhaps we can have a WoV event immediately before or after.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 8th, 2014 at 10:59:18 AM
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If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people. It's not going to kill me either way, but I'd rather it serve the hungry than those that have already made it.
ZCore13
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 11:08:08 AM
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Quote: Zcore13If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people. It's not going to kill me either way, but I'd rather it serve the hungry than those that have already made it.
ZCore13
Agreed
.
August 8th, 2014 at 11:14:17 AM
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Quote: Zcore13If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people. It's not going to kill me either way, but I'd rather it serve the hungry than those that have already made it.
At $1,095 for a full pass, it may be prohibitive for the little guys. Most game inventors I've known were always singing the blues about money.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
August 8th, 2014 at 11:17:09 AM
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That is just to get in.....takes $3500 plus additional costs to actually exhibit.
August 8th, 2014 at 11:29:04 AM
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Quote: ParadigmThat is just to get in.....takes $3500 plus additional costs to actually exhibit.
Exactly the issue... Add table rental or purchase, felt, handouts, travel etc... $5000!
What would be an interesting idea would be for a distributor, if willing to incur the expense, would be to sponsor a little guy for the show. While having a prior agreement that if the game wins or places they will sign a distribution agreement with said distributor.
This would not only allow for good games who otherwise couldnt even consider showing up but would also really show that said company was joining the effort for innovation on the gaming floor, while simultaneously improving public image...
Perhaps Something that would be beneficial that AGS should consider... Or one day Money$uit Industries... ;)
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August 8th, 2014 at 11:32:55 AM
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Quote: Zcore13If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people. It's not going to kill me either way, but I'd rather it serve the hungry than those that have already made it.
I hear ya Z.......the independents clearly have the opportunity to be on the Raving Floor and will get the traffic due to the set up of the competition.
Do you think the bigs have an advantage in the voting? Even if they do, while winning the competition is great, Luck Bros got a placement after the 2012 show and didn't make the podium. I know of two games at last years show that got trials without hitting the podium. So the opportunity exists by just being present if your game is good enough.
I think holding the bigs out of the competition cheapens the prize. Every independent out there would love to take first place and say they beat everything that SHFL/Bally/Galaxy etc. had that year. To say you beat every other independent is still an accomplishment, but beating the big boys is the real deal.
Perhaps you limit games to ones with no more than 5 previous placements......that will keep the bigs from only entering their very latest concepts that no one has on their floor yet.
I guess there will always be suggestions for improvement. The real score here is how Raving has carved out such a great little niche for the Table Games industry and provided a more focused and more affordable venue for indies to get their games in front of the people that can make their games hit a floor somewhere for trial.
August 8th, 2014 at 11:59:59 AM
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Quote: Zcore13If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people.
While I agree with what you're saying, would the show attract as many DTGs if the big boys weren't there?
Is it really $1,195 just to see the show??? Holy crap.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 8th, 2014 at 12:06:47 PM
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Quote: Zcore13If I had my choice, I'd like to have Raving be for independent inventors looking to get their game to market or distributed. The big boys have enough money and distribution power to get any game they want in front of Table Games people. It's not going to kill me either way, but I'd rather it serve the hungry than those that have already made it.
ZCore13
When it comes to making duds, the big boys are just as likely as the independents. They have the money and clout to get it installed, however the real voters are casino patrons not the guys at the Raving. Players vote with their money.
SHFL/Galaxy/DEQ are the not competition the independent should worry about. Using a golf analogy, the other players are not what golfers should worry about, it is the course.
So my final point is, if an independent worries about the big boys, get out of the business because you have to be much better then them to have a chance. Anything less and you will fail.
Edward Snowden is not the criminal, the government is for violating the constitution!
August 8th, 2014 at 12:09:39 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIs it really $1,195 just to see the show??? Holy crap.
Yup, Pretty nuts...
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August 8th, 2014 at 12:52:59 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearWhile I agree with what you're saying, would the show attract as many DTGs if the big boys weren't there?
Is it really $1,195 just to see the show??? Holy crap.
I think it would. Its about (or should be) new ideas and games who has the most money to provide free water and hot dealers for the participants.
Yes, it's $1,195, but it's not a show for the common person to attend. It's aimed at Table Games Directors and Staff. $1,195 once a year for a very focused event shouldn't be an issue for the budget. Especially for those ghat want to lead in the industry, not follow.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 1:14:51 PM
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Yeah, I get that. No problem for those guys. Particularly since they have fat expense accounts.Quote: Zcore13Yes, it's $1,195, but it's not a show for the common person to attend. It's aimed at Table Games Directors and Staff. $1,195 once a year for a very focused event shouldn't be an issue for the budget. Especially for those that want to lead in the industry, not follow.
I was toying with going to see the format, and then entering Poker For Roulette next year. I guess I'll just have to go in blind.
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Mar 21, 2021
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 8th, 2014 at 1:20:00 PM
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If you just want to see the format I'm sure I can arrange getting you in for a look. You won't be able to play any games or do anything, but you can at least check it out.
ZCore13
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 1:47:55 PM
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I am pretty sure a couple showed 2 different versions of a game last year in same 10 by 10. No more sharing, no more Galaxy.
If anybody else can remember sharing, please post. I am gonna email Dennis. Just don't seem right. Don't think the 20 limit will be a problem this year !
If anybody else can remember sharing, please post. I am gonna email Dennis. Just don't seem right. Don't think the 20 limit will be a problem this year !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 8th, 2014 at 2:51:16 PM
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Unless you have an end space, you can't fit more than one table in a 10X10 anyway. Even on the end, you would need a partial wedge table with just a couple of player stations to show a 2nd game. 1 game per 10X10 sounds right to me.
August 8th, 2014 at 2:59:15 PM
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Quote: BuzzardI am pretty sure a couple showed 2 different versions of a game last year in same 10 by 10. No more sharing, no more Galaxy.
If anybody else can remember sharing, please post. I am gonna email Dennis. Just don't seem right. Don't think the 20 limit will be a problem this year !
I don't recall any sharing. If I remember correctly, across from SHFL was an Asian couple that had two games, but one faced SHFL and the other turned the corner and faced the wall to the right as you walked in the room. I'm pretty sure they had two booths.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 4:41:34 PM
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$5000 is cheap. Name a couple of business that could turn into millions cost $5000 to start. You could find funds from friends, relatives or investors, or start saving. Some successful games did that.Quote: mrsuit31Exactly the issue... Add table rental or purchase, felt, handouts, travel etc... $5000!
August 8th, 2014 at 4:58:14 PM
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Quote: UCivan$5000 is cheap. Name a couple of business that could turn into millions cost $5000 to start. You could find funds from friends, relatives or investors, or start saving. Some successful games did that.
Ur forgetting about a few small things like patents, math, marketing, artwork and the endless hours of people telling you to go F urself....
It's 5000 for a competition not to start a gaming company.
The above mentions thing will cost you between 20,000 to 50,000 and potentially years of unpaid work.
Tht 5000 is virtually nothing in the big picture
Name one game that entered a single competition without any of those things and now is worth millions. If you say war blackjack guess again. Read up on the company they have a wide array(supposedly) of games on there portfolios over years of gaming experience. You think that cost them 5000, if you do you are terribly mistaken.
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August 8th, 2014 at 9:29:35 PM
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Quote: Zcore13I don't recall any sharing. If I remember correctly, across from SHFL was an Asian couple that had two games, but one faced SHFL and the other turned the corner and faced the wall to the right as you walked in the room. I'm pretty sure they had two booths.
ZCore13
Not sure, but seems that warning about not sharing has a history behind it. And no big prize this year ?
Oh well, table game space at Bally and Galaxy will say a lot.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 8th, 2014 at 10:47:42 PM
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Quote: BuzzardNot sure, but seems that warning about not sharing has a history behind it. And no big prize this year ?
Oh well, table game space at Bally and Galaxy will say a lot.
Last year was the first and only year there has ever been anything other than floor placements at specific casinos. I don't think it will have much of an impact. The placements are huge for someone just getting started.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 10:49:21 PM
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Does Bucky's even have a Roulette table? Just curious about the Luck Bros.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 8th, 2014 at 11:28:04 PM
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Quote: BuzzardDoes Bucky's even have a Roulette table? Just curious about the Luck Bros.
All live dealt games in Az must use cards. Dice, tiles, spinning balls are all illegal.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 8th, 2014 at 11:31:22 PM
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Quote: Zcore13Dice, tiles, spinning balls are all illegal.
Because the blue haired old ladies who run
AZ think they're evil..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 9th, 2014 at 12:07:49 AM
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The same must run CA as well :-)
August 9th, 2014 at 12:09:57 AM
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Quote: BuzzardOh well, table game space at Bally and Galaxy will say a lot.
What is it going to say?
August 9th, 2014 at 6:57:27 AM
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It might give a hint as to future emphasis on table games. Might explain if Elliot Frome will be doing table game acceptance in the future.
May see a renewed push for digital table game in both product lines. Just lots of things. Actions speak louder than words. No sponsorship at Raving sorta says something. Gavin cancelled as speaker last year at Raving at last moment to push merger. Will he even attend Raving this year?
I have no idea what it is going to say. But it will say something. I expect less space dedicated to actual live table games. But I have been wrong before, just in case you have not noticed.
Did you expect to see another Focus group in this decade ? I don't !
May see a renewed push for digital table game in both product lines. Just lots of things. Actions speak louder than words. No sponsorship at Raving sorta says something. Gavin cancelled as speaker last year at Raving at last moment to push merger. Will he even attend Raving this year?
I have no idea what it is going to say. But it will say something. I expect less space dedicated to actual live table games. But I have been wrong before, just in case you have not noticed.
Did you expect to see another Focus group in this decade ? I don't !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 9th, 2014 at 7:02:08 AM
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It's not just the format I'm interested in.Quote: Zcore13If you just want to see the format I'm sure I can arrange getting you in for a look. You won't be able to play any games or do anything, but you can at least check it out.
It's how many of the little guys will have eye candy. Or real candy or water, etc.
How is the flow of traffic. Are the participants under any pressure to see all booths, and/or is there a time limit (min & max) at each booth?
I suppose most of these details are covered in the package a presenter receives when he signs up, but I would have liked to roam the floor for a bit.
I've worked conventions, but this is different than anything I've done before.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 9th, 2014 at 11:17:40 AM
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Quote: ParadigmThe same must run CA as well :-)
Nope, at least AZ can use dice... Cali needs to get with the program!
.
August 9th, 2014 at 11:20:59 AM
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Quote: mrsuit31Nope, at least AZ can use dice... Cali needs to get with the program!
No dice in Az.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 9th, 2014 at 11:53:32 AM
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Quote: Zcore13No dice in Az.
ZCore13
Yup I clearly misread your last post... whoops
.
August 9th, 2014 at 12:10:49 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31Yup I clearly misread your last post... whoops
Fear not though... If I was a betting man I would not bet against me being the first to have live craps and or roulette in some form. There are a few very strong casinos in Phoenix and Tucson but I would not list myself as an underdog.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 9th, 2014 at 12:31:16 PM
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Quote: Zcore13Fear not though... If I was a betting man I would not bet against me being the first to have live craps and or roulette in some form. There are a few very strong casinos in Phoenix and Tucson but I would not list myself as an underdog.
ZCore13
Point taken.
Actually have a question for you... When it comes to the pai gow, are you allowed to use dice to determine the dealing position?
.
August 9th, 2014 at 1:02:04 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31Point taken.
Actually have a question for you... When it comes to the pai gow, are you allowed to use dice to determine the dealing position?
I've never seen it. The only way I'd seen it determined I'd digital RNG. As far as I can recall in the State Compact, dice can not be used to determine ANY outcome within a live dealt game.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
August 10th, 2014 at 9:24:18 AM
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Re: DJTB's question on Raving. People who are voting are required to have visited each booth and played the game; each exhibitor marks their participation on the ballot. So if the vote is to count, the ballot has to have been verified by every exhibitor. There were about 6 periods over 3 days for playing; the opening reception Monday, seminar breaks Tuesday all day, and seminar breaks prior to noon on Wednesday. They totaled the ballots and made an announcement mid-afternoon Wednesday. I think they were ranking ballots, with the voter's top 3 picks in order receiving weighted points. There was some qualification, I'm not sure what it was, (or more accurately where the line was drawn) and only certain people could vote. (For example, exhibitors couldn't vote.)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 10th, 2014 at 9:27:01 AM
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My understanding is that only the potential buyers (TGD's et al) vote.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
October 16th, 2014 at 4:51:57 PM
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21 games entered into the competition at this point. And the "Big Boys" are both sponsoring the event, which means they will both probably have games there but they will not be part of the competition.
List of registered games
Looks like a good variety of blackjack, poker and dice with our own Paradigm showing the only roulette game.
ZCore13
List of registered games
Looks like a good variety of blackjack, poker and dice with our own Paradigm showing the only roulette game.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 20th, 2014 at 9:22:44 AM
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Roulette game is not mine, but the Luck Bros. "Lucky" & I are taking this year off from exhibiting at Raving, but I will be checking out the new games at the VIP Reception on Monday night. See you there Z!
October 20th, 2014 at 9:28:22 AM
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Quote: ParadigmRoulette game is not mine, but the Luck Bros. "Lucky" & I are taking this year off from exhibiting at Raving, but I will be checking out the new games at the VIP Reception on Monday night. See you there Z!
Oops. Sorry about the mistake. Be good to see you Monday night. Looking forward to it.
ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
October 20th, 2014 at 12:40:34 PM
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Wait a sec...Quote: ParadigmRoulette game is not mine, but the Luck Bros. "Lucky" & I are taking this year off from exhibiting at Raving, but I will be checking out the new games at the VIP Reception on Monday night. See you there Z!
How are you doing that? Paying the full $1,195? Or is there a less expensive entry fee?
If I can get in for cheap just to see and get a feel for it, I'd sign up in a heartbeat.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 20th, 2014 at 1:14:13 PM
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Hey Teddy Bear
August 8th, 2014 at 1:20:00 PM permalink
Zcore13
Member since: Nov 30, 2009
Threads: 14
Posts: 1282
If you just want to see the format I'm sure I can arrange getting you in for a look. You won't be able to play any games or do anything, but you can at least check it out.
ZCore13
August 8th, 2014 at 1:20:00 PM permalink
Zcore13
Member since: Nov 30, 2009
Threads: 14
Posts: 1282
If you just want to see the format I'm sure I can arrange getting you in for a look. You won't be able to play any games or do anything, but you can at least check it out.
ZCore13
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
October 20th, 2014 at 1:49:23 PM
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Will the LUCK brothers bring home the GOLD ? Morning line had them as 8/5 favorite !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
October 20th, 2014 at 3:41:53 PM
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Buzz -
I already saw Zcore's offer, and responded to it.
I already saw Zcore's offer, and responded to it.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 20th, 2014 at 3:45:42 PM
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Just checking Teddy, not criticizing. Just a little envious of current TRIVIA CHAMPION. GRRRRRR
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 10th, 2014 at 3:33:44 PM
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Long story. Short version: I'm coming to Vegas next week, and attending Raving!
I won't be presenting Poker For Roulette, but I will be there, checking things out (but not voting). And, if all goes well, I'll be meeting with some folks at one of the table game companies to talk about my game.
So who else will be going to Raving? And indicate if you're going either presenting your game, or as an attendee checking things out, or otherwise.
A meet-up would be great. :)
I won't be presenting Poker For Roulette, but I will be there, checking things out (but not voting). And, if all goes well, I'll be meeting with some folks at one of the table game companies to talk about my game.
So who else will be going to Raving? And indicate if you're going either presenting your game, or as an attendee checking things out, or otherwise.
A meet-up would be great. :)
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
November 10th, 2014 at 3:36:32 PM
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Looking forward to your report. Hope you parlay winning the Trivia contest to getting interest in your game.
GOOD LUCK
GOOD LUCK
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
November 10th, 2014 at 5:26:37 PM
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I'll be there for the showcase on Monday only. I will be making videos of the new games with my sidekick Heather, aka VegasAces. If any forum members who will be presenting at the show would like preferential treatment for a video of their game, let me know.
Regarding a meetup, how about after the show on Monday?
Regarding a meetup, how about after the show on Monday?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
November 10th, 2014 at 6:46:27 PM
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I was on the Table Game site and extremely disappointed. Clicking on some of the exhibitors brought you to a site or video about the game. But many just brought you back to Raving. Gonna email Dennis about it. Some have video or site that can be found by Google.
Should not have to do that. Not at the $5,000 minimum exhibitors will be out of pocket.
Should not have to do that. Not at the $5,000 minimum exhibitors will be out of pocket.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
