New Game - HiLo7

I have now been a member of WOV since July 12th 2013 and actively posting for about 3 months. I guess it is time to put out what a friend and I have been working on and see what comments, critisism and crucification we get. I'm good with all 3.

We have devised a new twist on two very old games. It does turn out though that this game was sort of mentioned in Eliot's book, Contemporary Casino Table Games Design although it was only mentioned as an aside to show how little thought people put into a game before deciding to persue it.
NOTE: I only read CCTGD after the game was developed and designed.

We have filed a provisional patent for the game as well as the device used. The device is an improvement on existing Dice shakers/cups/bowls which is why we decided to file a patent for the shaker. We have also trademarked our logos, layouts and copywrited all of our game manuals and procedure manuals. We have done all of this work Pro Se with some help of a few friends. It took me about 6 weeks to go through all the previous game and accessory patents on the USPTO. I made copies of all the relevant patents.

I contacted the Wiz late last year to ask him his opinion and if the game was easy enough to understand. We have from the beginning thought that the game, if it would work anywhere, it would be in Asia due to its origin as well as the elements involved. The Wizard gave us his opinion for which we thank him.

We also have no misgivings about this process or how hard it is to make it in this industry. This isn't our day job, we are simply having a little bit of fun and trying to contribute in the industry with which we are involved.

Now for the game: HiLo7 Baccarat

The game is a hybrid between craps and baccarat. The game is played with a manual Dice shaker (or automatic dice shaker for quicker games) and two specifically designed dice. The dice are slightly smaller than craps size dice with feathered edges as well as two built in security features.
There are 2 main bets on the game - Either bet "LOW" or "HI".
LOW numbers = 2,3,4,5,6
HI numbers = 8,9,10,11,12
If you roll a 7 = push (tie)
NOTE: The house edge comes from the fact that, if you bet on "LOW" and you roll a 2, you push (tie). If you bet on HI and you roll a 12, you push (tie). The effective HA of the main game is 2.78%
The third betting option is a side bet. You can bet on rolling a "7" which pays 4 to 1. The H/A is also very easy to calculate at 16.67%
We also have a fourth bet which is also a side bet. You can wager on making EITHER a "2 or 12" which pays 15 to 1 for a H/A of 11.11%

The mathematics have been verified by Charles Mousseau.

All bets are simply one roll bets. You wager either Hi or Low with any side bets you choose (if any). You get the shaker, shake the dice, place the shaker on the table and let the dealer open the shaker to resolve the wagers.
We have simulated about 1,000 shakes of the dice and we have found that, on average the Dice will land on top of one another about 1 out of 40 times. We have not yet decided on a final procedure for this eventuality. It will either be a "no roll" or the dealer, with the attention of the floor will be allowed to remove the dice from atop one another and resolve the wager.
NOTE: If you are so inclined you may only wager on the side bets and not on the main game. (I know this is obvious but in the interest of disclosure I will mention it).

Once all wagers have been resolved, the dealer will close the shaker, give it a shake and place it in front of the next person to shake the dice.

The purpose of the game for us anyway is to try and bring the game of Dice to a group of people who don't really like playing Dice but have a tremendous upside when it comes to casino spend, A.K.A, Asia. We tried to make the game as easy to understand and to play as possible, with as few bets to resolve as possible.

We have also designed two follow up games that are based on the original idea but have variations in wager types and payoffs.

We are very close to having this game trialed in 6 European casinos as well as 1 in Egypt.

It would be great if the wealth of talent and knowledge could constructively critique the base game and also perhaps give any opinions on the matter.

I will try and answer as quickly as I can but I'm in Korea so the time difference may sometimes cause me to answer a little later.

Thank you for your consideration.

Why is "Baccarat" in the name of the game? That's the only part that doesn't make sense to me. I don't see anything having to do with Baccarat.

Can not see it attracting craps players and with no cards to squeeze, it has absolutely no appeal to baccarat players.

"The purpose of the game for us anyway is to try and bring the game of Dice to a group of people who don't really like playing Dice "

Would it be better to design a game for people who like playing dice ? just asking.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Why is "Baccarat" in the name of the game? That's the only part that doesn't make sense to me. I don't see anything having to do with Baccarat.

" The game is a hybrid between craps and baccarat. " Sort of like a hybrid car without wheels .

Quote: AcesAndEights

Why is "Baccarat" in the name of the game? That's the only part that doesn't make sense to me. I don't see anything having to do with Baccarat.

In our admittedly very limited opinion the game, layout and feel was that of a baccarat game. The fact that there are two main betting sides just like player/banker (read Hi/Lo) with a "tie" bet in the 7, we felt that it would appeal to people who enjoy playing baccarat.

Hope the explanation makes sense :)

Quote: Buzzard

Can not see it attracting craps players and with no cards to squeeze, it has absolutely no appeal to baccarat players.

"The purpose of the game for us anyway is to try and bring the game of Dice to a group of people who don't really like playing Dice "

Would it be better to design a game for people who like playing dice ? just asking.

Your point is well taken with there not being any cards to squeeze. We hope that the shaking of the dice in a cup "controlled" by either a nominated player or the player with the highest bet on the layout, will give a similar feel to how Midi Baccarat is played in Macau and in other jurisdictions.

Really the only similarity to Dice would be the actual square dice used with the same numbering as a regular dice game. Best case scenario for us or any casinos that we may do business with is that the feel of this game would relate to rolling the dice on a regular craps layout?

Again, we are trying to make the game as simple with as little rules as possible. In the world of instant gratification we want the players to be able to get to the game, understand it and put some money in action in the least possible time.

Thanks for your comments Buzz!

Well, I am sure you are aware most everybody will tell you your game is great. Everybody that is except the people who really count. GOOD LUCK

Quote: Buzzard

Well, I am sure you are aware most everybody will tell you your game is great. Everybody that is except the people who really count. GOOD LUCK

Thanks for the good wishes.

To be fair, I would prefer an honest opinion as you have clearly stated above.

And just for the cheap seats, nobody has told us our game is great nor do I expect such lofty praise. (Refer to my first point above)

Going to bed, will look for this thread in am . But don't expect many further replies. Most people here are too nice to be critical.
\
Hope the trials prove me wrong.

Quote: Buzzard

Going to bed, will look for this thread in am . But don't expect many further replies. Most people here are too nice to be critical.
\
Hope the trials prove me wrong.

I got the feeling that most people here didn't mind speaking their minds. I certainly would expect nothing less.

Thanks again for your input and I hope we get to prove you wrong too :)

I agree that this has nothing to do with baccarat. These are basically craps side wagers (some of which already exist).

I can't see anyone playing this instead of craps. But I could be totally wrong.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I agree that this has nothing to do with baccarat. These are basically craps side wagers (some of which already exist).

I can't see anyone playing this instead of craps. But I could be totally wrong.

But you could also be totally right !

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

I agree that this has nothing to do with baccarat. These are basically craps side wagers (some of which already exist).

I can't see anyone playing this instead of craps. But I could be totally wrong.

What you are saying makes total sense and I guess this base game would battle to gain traction in a market such as the US where there is still major craps action. That isn't the case in the rest of the world where Craps (unfortunately) is a dying game. People find craps too intimidating and difficult to figure out.
Our game simply wants to offer people an alternative to both Baccarat and Craps (with trace elements of each), which is easy to understand and even easier to play.

We are hoping that the interaction with the dice shaker and the uncomplicated nature of the game will at least have a small following :)

That would make it a success in our eyes!

Quote: Tomspur

What you are saying makes total sense and I guess this base game would battle to gain traction in a market such as the US where there is still major craps action. That isn't the case in the rest of the world where Craps (unfortunately) is a dying game. People find craps too intimidating and difficult to figure out.
Our game simply wants to offer people an alternative to both Baccarat and Craps (with trace elements of each), which is easy to understand and even easier to play.

We are hoping that the interaction with the dice shaker and the uncomplicated nature of the game will at least have a small following :)

That would make it a success in our eyes!

Fair enough.

Can you explain to me the relationship to baccarat? There are no cards or anything. Is it just because you are picking one of two equally likely outcomes?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Can you explain to me the relationship to baccarat? There are no cards or anything. Is it just because you are picking one of two equally likely outcomes?

Exactly right and also because of the "tie" bet which could be equated to the "tie" bet in baccarat as well as the 2/12 bet which could be equated to the Pairs bet in baccarat.

I understand that the game bears no intricate resemblance to either game, it is merely the "look and feel" of the game and also how the game is played, such as playing the game with either the manual shaker (midi) or an automatic shaker (mini) and your above mentioned relationship.

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate the questions.

Quote: Tomspur

Now for the game: HiLo7 Baccarat

I think the name needs work, since there are no cards involved. Maybe if the felt looks very similar in the layout you can get away with the bacc comparison, but I think it's a misleading name when 9 is not a significant number, and there are no cards dealt. What about making 9 significant in the pays?

Quote: Tomspur

The game is a hybrid between craps and baccarat. The game is played with a manual Dice shaker (or automatic dice shaker for quicker games) and two specifically designed dice. The dice are slightly smaller than craps size dice with feathered edges as well as two built in security features.

I like that there's a dice shaker the players can use. When PGP came out, it had a shaker with 3 dice. I loved that it was truly random, and that when I banked I got to shake it. Still used in PG tiles.

Quote: Tomspur

There are 2 main bets on the game - Either bet "LOW" or "HI".
LOW numbers = 2,3,4,5,6
HI numbers = 8,9,10,11,12
If you roll a 7 = push (tie)
NOTE: The house edge comes from the fact that, if you bet on "LOW" and you roll a 2, you push (tie). If you bet on HI and you roll a 12, you push (tie). The effective HA of the main game is 2.78%

I think this is ok for a slow game, but too high for a game to go head-to-head with Baccarat (the audience I assume you're trying to reach). You might consider playing with what number(s) push(es) (or even lose), and pays that are more than 1:1 on the low end (similar to what I did with One for the Money - NOT a plug for my game, but it's applicable) to lower the HE to around 1% so your game can be dealt fast and not blow the players off the table. I would think that with a simple dice shake and only 4 bets the game will turn over in less than 30 seconds, for a hand rate above 120/hour. That HE will seem enormous with play that quick.

Quote: Tomspur

The third betting option is a side bet. You can bet on rolling a "7" which pays 4 to 1. The H/A is also very easy to calculate at 16.67%
We also have a fourth bet which is also a side bet. You can wager on making EITHER a "2 or 12" which pays 15 to 1 for a H/A of 11.11%

so the third bet is kind of a tie bet, and the 4th bet is low-odds rolls. Works for me.

Quote: Tomspur

The mathematics have been verified by Charles Mousseau.

Good on you. Charles is great.

Quote: Tomspur

All bets are simply one roll bets. You wager either Hi or Low with any side bets you choose (if any). You get the shaker, shake the dice, place the shaker on the table and let the dealer open the shaker to resolve the wagers.
We have simulated about 1,000 shakes of the dice and we have found that, on average the Dice will land on top of one another about 1 out of 40 times.

So why not a sidebet on stacked dice? Can your custom shaker be manipulated to deliberately stack the dice? Or is it a very random occurence? Could the game feature that sidebet and be called "Lucky Stack" or something?

Quote: Tomspur

We have not yet decided on a final procedure for this eventuality. It will either be a "no roll" or the dealer, with the attention of the floor will be allowed to remove the dice from atop one another and resolve the wager.
NOTE: If you are so inclined you may only wager on the side bets and not on the main game. (I know this is obvious but in the interest of disclosure I will mention it).

I don't think that's obvious; I'm glad you made it explicit.

Quote: Tomspur

Once all wagers have been resolved, the dealer will close the shaker, give it a shake and place it in front of the next person to shake the dice.

The purpose of the game for us anyway is to try and bring the game of Dice to a group of people who don't really like playing Dice but have a tremendous upside when it comes to casino spend, A.K.A, Asia.

If that's your target audience, maybe the name should be more Asian? What do the Asians call Baccarat?

Quote: Tomspur

We tried to make the game as easy to understand and to play as possible, with as few bets to resolve as possible.

We have also designed two follow up games that are based on the original idea but have variations in wager types and payoffs.

We are very close to having this game trialed in 6 European casinos as well as 1 in Egypt.

It would be great if the wealth of talent and knowledge could constructively critique the base game and also perhaps give any opinions on the matter.

I will try and answer as quickly as I can but I'm in Korea so the time difference may sometimes cause me to answer a little later.

Thank you for your consideration.

I think you're on the right track for something that may catch on. I don't know anything about the world market vs. US market, and you do. Here, people who play Craps would probably think your game was too simplistic for them, but I could be wrong. I suspect some of them will weigh in.

I see advantages in it being simple, not needing language skills to understand, that it would play very fast, and large groups of people can play together. I think the HE is too high unless there's more business you can work in between rolls. And I think the name needs to change some. That's it for now, and I wish you much luck with your trials and placements!

Babs,

The name was always the weak point and we will endeavor to find something more appropriate. I may be the least artisic person on the planet but you have given so very strong ideas!
As for the H/A being a little high, in the base game it is yes, for the purpose of general floor play with minimal side bets. We have also already created a second game called HiLo7 Bonus where the payoffs and pushes are arranged slightly differently. This will decrease the H/A to make it more desirable for high end one on one play. The game has also already been designed and is packaged ready to go with paytables and the like.

For us this is a process, starting off with the base game and then, if we find some excitement about that, plug in the secondary options to make the package look more attractive. As you mentioned we also want to give the casinos more options when it comes to paytables so they may choose what they want to gove their clients!

The "Lucky Stack" side bet may be meritorious but I fear we would need at least 1,000,000 independent trials of the shaker before we could surmize exactly what fair odds would be. Currently we have about 1,000 whic isn't even remotely enough.......I like the way you are thinking though!!! :)

Thanks again for the constructive critisizm!!!

If there are any craps players that have an opinion about another game in the casino being played with 2 dice, I would appreciate your feedback.

Thanks

Quote: Tomspur

If there are any craps players that have an opinion about another game in the casino being played with 2 dice, I would appreciate your feedback.

Thanks

My honest opinion is that I would have no reason to sit down at this game. Craps is perfect as is, for a 2-dice game.

Tomspur

First lets go over what you will do with opinions. Be advised that most people are no-men, not yes-men. I faced this when trying to get my screenplay produced in Hollywood.

A No-man will say no even if it means reversing his own arguments so you cannot really listen to them.

ex 1. You: My game is designed for the Asian market which does not usually play dice games like Craps.
No-man: You cannot design a game for people who aren't your market. Design the game for people who love Craps, not those who traditionally hate it. I have to say NO!

ex. 2. You: My game is designed for the U.S. market which has proven they love Craps. We wanted to design the game for players who have traditionally shown they love dice games.
No-Man: The U.S. market already has a dice game called Craps. It's too entrenched in people's minds. You need to try marketing this to people who aren't Craps fans. I have to say NO!

This answer will usually come from the same person. When in Hollywood I had a producer who told me he wanted a public domain property because his company was tired of paying rights for material. I brought him a public domain screenplay and he told me there was no way they could control the rights--anyone could come out with a competing version.

This was the same guy, mind you. In the end, you have to just do what you are already doing. Get the game into the market and have it tested for real. If it succeeds, everyone will tell you how they were Yes-men that predicted it's initial success.



Now--on to the name. I agree this doesn't seem named properly. It seems to me with the Hi-Lo outcome of the dice this more resembles the Asian game Sic Bo. Perhaps you should call it something like 7tie Sic Bo? Players will automatically get that A: this is a dice game and B: there is a hi-lo situation that now resolves around the total of 7 instead of 10 and 11(like in Sic Bo).

I'm quite certain Asians have heard of Craps even if they don't traditionally play. How about calling it EZCraps? (Make certain you check with PaiGowDan if that's okay).

Is there any reason why the dice cannot be thrown across the table like in Craps? PaiGow and Sic Bo both have dice in a shaker so while that's Asian, there's nothing revolutionary. It seems you are trying to bring the Craps experience to them and that would be throwing the dice, not shaking it.

Well, those are my thoughts on it for now. Good luck.

edit: oh yeah, one more thing. In Sic Bo and Paigow, if the dice in the shaker are on top of each other, its a no-roll. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.)

This sounds a little too much like a game called "Under and Over 7" (I think the only differences are, 2 and 12 don't push, but a 7 loses on both high and low). It's in the "Casino Side Games" chapter of Scarne's New Complete Guide to Gambling; I have a 1986 printing (third paperback edition) with a 1974 copyright (it's "new" because the original came out in 1961).

Quote: darkoz

How about calling it EZCraps? (Make certain you check with PaiGowDan if that's okay).

Did Dan coin the EZ terminology? Didn't EZ Bac predate EZ PGP?

Anyway, I like your advice in most of your post, but I would advise against the name. EZ Baccarat and EZ PGP are essentially Baccarat and PGP with minor modifications. Some people may or may not like the modifications, but they still capture the essence of the game, to some extent. This game is not craps with a minor modification -- there is no passline bet, which is the most basic of all craps bets.

Quote: darkoz

Now--on to the name. I agree this doesn't seem named properly. It seems to me with the Hi-Lo outcome of the dice this more resembles the Asian game Sic Bo. Perhaps you should call it something like 7tie Sic Bo? Players will automatically get that A: this is a dice game and B: there is a hi-lo situation that now resolves around the total of 7 instead of 10 and 11(like in Sic Bo).

I'm quite certain Asians have heard of Craps even if they don't traditionally play. How about calling it EZCraps? (Make certain you check with PaiGowDan if that's okay).

Is there any reason why the dice cannot be thrown across the table like in Craps? PaiGow and Sic Bo both have dice in a shaker so while that's Asian, there's nothing revolutionary. It seems you are trying to bring the Craps experience to them and that would be throwing the dice, not shaking it.

Well, those are my thoughts on it for now. Good luck.

edit: oh yeah, one more thing. In Sic Bo and Paigow, if the dice in the shaker are on top of each other, its a no-roll. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.)

Thanks for your comments and you are mostly spot on!

We did initially entertain a type of "roll" to take place but then the game would not be able to be played on a regular flat top table for blackjack or baccarat. Also the dice would have to be able to be rolled a certain distance in order for the outcome to be truly random. We just felt that this was not possible given the contraints of table size and so on. Also if we wanted to market the game for the general floor, you would need more decisions per hour in order for the game to reach its peak potential. That would not have been possible with having individual "love" rolls without some kind of containment device. Also we intent using the electronic shaker for the "mini bacc-style" games in order to speed up the game. There are also electornic game implications for our game which is why I wanted to go with the dice shaker option.

Our current procedure does call a "no-roll" for dice landing on top of one another but I wanted to explore other possibilities too. (More on that later).

The name needs work and it will be a tough nut to crack as I have no artistic bone in my body but I'm going to do a little more research on Chinese names and sayings.

Thanks again for your great reply!

Quote: ThatDonGuy

This sounds a little too much like a game called "Under and Over 7" (I think the only differences are, 2 and 12 don't push, but a 7 loses on both high and low). It's in the "Casino Side Games" chapter of Scarne's New Complete Guide to Gambling; I have a 1986 printing (third paperback edition) with a 1974 copyright (it's "new" because the original came out in 1961).

Don, do you know off the top of your head if the game was ever played or installed anywhere? Perhaps, in that incarnation it came and went because of its rudementary similarities to a craps roll and didn't work?

As mentioned if the game makes in in Europe and Asia and never in the US, we would be absolutely ecxtatic.

I'll look up to see what I can find out online about it.

Thanks

Quote: Tomspur

LOW numbers = 2,3,4,5,6
HI numbers = 8,9,10,11,12
If you roll a 7 = push (tie)
NOTE: The house edge comes from the fact that, if you bet on "LOW" and you roll a 2, you push (tie). If you bet on HI and you roll a 12, you push (tie). The effective HA of the main game is 2.78%
The third betting option is a side bet. You can bet on rolling a "7" which pays 4 to 1. The H/A is also very easy to calculate at 16.67%
We also have a fourth bet which is also a side bet. You can wager on making EITHER a "2 or 12" which pays 15 to 1 for a H/A of 11.11%

High and low have been done before, in many flavors, and with many different quantities of dice. The Any 7 bet is already on the craps table, and so is the "2 or 12" bet ($1 "High-Low" pays 15-to-1 if either a 2 or 12 hit).

I don't know what your dice shaker improvement looks like, but I suspect you won't be able to get a patent specifically on those bets based on what's already out there. If it's important to you (and your customers) to have a patent on your game, PM me. I have a patent on two-dice bets for Odd and Even that have house edges of 1.11% each, and I'm sure we could work out an arrangement.

How about calling it EZ Die Hard (I'm not actually serious about that one although it has a certain ring to it)

Quote: MathExtremist

High and low have been done before, in many flavors, and with many different quantities of dice. The Any 7 bet is already on the craps table, and so is the "2 or 12" bet ($1 "High-Low" pays 15-to-1 if either a 2 or 12 hit).

I don't know what your dice shaker improvement looks like, but I suspect you won't be able to get a patent specifically on those bets based on what's already out there. If it's important to you (and your customers) to have a patent on your game, PM me. I have a patent on two-dice bets for Odd and Even that have house edges of 1.11% each, and I'm sure we could work out an arrangement.

Thanks for the comment. I will definitely PM you.

As mentioned this is the base game but we have made quite a few "tweaks" for our 2nd and 3rd game that could be patentable, however I'm still doing research.....

Going through all these patents on USPTO is a nightmare :)

Quote: darkoz

How about calling it EZ Die Hard (I'm not actually serious about that one although it has a certain ring to it)

That's funny :)

I'm looking into some Mandarin names currently to see if I can find something with a nice ring to it that means something vaguely similar to what we are trying.

It is tough when you are just not creative at all :)

Tomspur,

Check this website: mandarin and try some of the words on the right (highlight the characters and it loads them in the applet on the right, then hit "listen". My favorite so far is "bones" which seems to be pronounced "boo-tyen". It will let you search by English words, translates them, and then you can play them. ("dice" itself is a mess of t, z, and sh sounds, but the character is neat; it looks like an inscribed 7 in part)

Quote: beachbumbabs

Tomspur,

Check this website: mandarin and try some of the words on the right (highlight the characters and it loads them in the applet on the right, then hit "listen". My favorite so far is "bones" which seems to be pronounced "boo-tyen". It will let you search by English words, translates them, and then you can play them. ("dice" itself is a mess of t, z, and sh sounds, but the character is neat; it looks like an inscribed 7 in part)

You are a mind reader.....I'm on that site as we speak myself :)

Nothing has actually pooped out at me yet but i'll keep on looking!

Thanks Babs!

Oh and i have a lady who works for me who is fluent in both Mandarin and Cantonese.....she is on night shift right now but I'm sending her an email as we speak!!!

That will help boat loads having someone to sound off of right in the office!

Other than the "tie"....I don't see how this game differs from Clay Cacas' side bet on craps commonly known as "Over or Under 7".

Patent US20040195764 A1

http://www.olympiadice.com/Over_or_Under_7.html

Quote: doubleluck

Other than the "tie"....I don't see how this game differs from Clay Cacas' game commonly known as "Over or Under 7".

Patent US20040195764 A1

http://www.olympiadice.com/Over_or_Under_7.html

Thanks for the info Double.

There are some similarities and according from what I understand there only needs to be one unique feature that would allow the game to be patented. His game also purely seems to be a dice variation and even though our game may also be classified as a dice variation, as I mentioned before the "feel" of the game is much more "baccarat" than dice.
I qualify my last statement by saying that I understand there are no physical baccarat attributes except for the TIE bet but once you see the layout and how the game flows it may make more sense?

Thanks again

Quote: Tomspur

Thanks for the info Double.

There are some similarities and according from what I understand there only needs to be one unique feature that would allow the game to be patented. His game also purely seems to be a dice variation and even though our game may also be classified as a dice variation, as I mentioned before the "feel" of the game is much more "baccarat" than dice.
I qualify my last statement by saying that I understand there are no physical baccarat attributes except for the TIE bet but once you see the layout and how the game flows it may make more sense?

Thanks again

Tomspur,

I realize that your layout may be different or have a particular "feel" but the USPTO won't take that into consideration. However, what you are trying to patent are particular outcomes either higher or lower than 7. The tie bet is most likely public domain as this already exists in craps. In addition, the other two bets (higher or lower than 7) are already patented by Cacas.

Quote: doubleluck

Tompsur,

I realize that your layout may be different or have a particular "feel" but the USPTO won't take that into consideration. However, what you are trying to patent are particular outcomes either higher or lower than 7. The tie bet is most likely public domain as this already exists in craps. In addition, the other two bets (higher or lower than 7) are already patented by Cacas.

I absolutely understand. It would require a unique bet or aspect that will allow our No-provisional patent to be accepted.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

Keep your mind on the game, Tom. LOL