Rights to Three Card Poker

Hello all

I have thought of a new side bet for Three Card Poker but I'm unsure how to go about pursuing it.

A little about me, I'm currently a Dealer working in a UK casino and have been in the business for nearly 7 years, so I'm not just an amateur player who thinks it'll be an easy ride.
I am under no delusions, I know most new casino games or side bets fail. But I think my idea is fun, physiologically endearing and should increase the casino's win. I'm no maths expert but I've done enough myself to know its mathematically sound. It is also simple, will not promote dealer error and is not affected by advantage play.

And don't worry, I'm not going to disclose anything about my idea here. It's just a mere concept at the moment so no protection at all.

My problem is that unlike Blackjack or Roulette, TCP is fairly new. If I had a side bet for Blackjack I would simply get it patented/copyrighted, get it mathematically checked, design a layout, approved by the Commission and then go about selling it to casino.
Because it's TCP I doubt I can do that. I'm sure it's still protected by whoever owns the patent, so how do I get my side bet on the layout?
Does anyone know who does own it?

Also where would I go to get my game Mathematically checked and simulation made, bear in mind I'm in the UK.

Does anyone have any thoughts they think could help me?

Kind regards

Edd

Methods of playing games are not patentable inventions in the UK. See Part I, 1(2)(c) of the Patents Act.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/37

However, if it's a trademarked brand (which it surely is) then you'd likely need to deal with the TM owner in order to use it. But if I were in your situation, I'd ask the Commission what they recommend.

If I remember correctly, the Three Card Poker patent expires soon. I don't know if that means the game will be a public domain game, like Blackjack, Texas Hold'em and other games, but it must mean something. Probably something to check into as well...


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

If I remember correctly, the Three Card Poker patent expires soon. I don't know if that means the game will be a public domain game, like Blackjack, Texas Hold'em and other games, but it must mean something. Probably something to check into as well...

Eliot posted on his site that it's now a public domain game.

Thanks for your responses.

MathExtremist, what I'm suggesting will be a side bet much like the current "Prime" one now. So it would be something on the layout for people to bet on, not a method of play. Unless I've misunderstood your point.

EvenBob, am I to take it then that I could just design a layout, get it copyrighted/patented etc and then start selling it to casinos without fear of getting sued by the inverters of TCP?

Can you show me the source where it says this.

Thanks

Edd

" If I had a side bet for Blackjack I would SIMPLY get it patented/copyrighted, get it mathematically checked, design a layout, approved by the Commission and then go about selling it to casino. "

You might find out it is not quite that SIMPLE.

Good Luck, anyway.

Quote: EvenBob

Eliot posted on his site that it's now a public domain game.

The game play may be public domain, but I think SHFL/Bally's is going to be having their lawyers contact you if you spread a game and call it "Three Card Poker" without paying them a monthly fee.

ME has it right, there is going to be a TM issue both here in the US and in the UK.

Trademark would still be a problem. Actual gameplay is the issue at hand for the patent. You can use the exact rules and just call it "Three Card Holdem" (if that's not trademarked) and put your own side bet(s) on it.


ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

Trademark would still be a problem. Actual gameplay is the issue at hand for the patent. You can use the exact rules and just call it "Three Card Holdem" (if that's not trademarked) and put your own side bet(s) on it.

I think "Three Card Holdem" is actually what many online sites call it.

Buzzard -point taken, I was only suggesting that I wouldn't have TM and Patent infringement issues as well.

So you're saying that I can copy the gameplay, odds and rules exactly but just not call it Three Card Poker? This sounds like a bigger task that I was anticipating, unseating a giant!
I was rather hoping to just add my side bet to the original layout like Prime was added to the original game.

Edd

Quote: englishedd

...new side bet for Three Card...

I'm assuming you're creating a side-bet based on either the three cards of the player or the six cards including those of the dealer. Technically it has little to do with Three-card-poker since it's based on three or six cards from a single deck. While UK casinos currently only have 3CP that meets this requirement, there is no reason why you cannot apply it to any game. (This thinking is where 21+3 came from.) Indeed if it was based on six cards, you could also add it to 6-card poker ( http://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/poker6card.html ).

To be honest any three or reasonable six card plays from a single deck are fairly easy to work out, for instance there are only 22100 possible 3-card hands.

Obviously the above applies to an independent sidebet from the game, but if you're using a House Money concept or something else happens afterwards, then it's an interesting question and more difficult to work out.

Quote: EvenBob

Eliot posted on his site that it's now a public domain game.

I don't think this is correct. 3CP is covered by a number of patents, the first is patent number 5,685,774 which expires on 7/19/2015.

Hi Englishedd,

'Also where would I go to get my game Mathematically checked and simulation made, bear in mind I'm in the UK.'

There are few that you can find, BMM test labs is who I went with. It will cost you around £1,250 to the maths done and the report.

Quote: englishedd

Buzzard -point taken, I was only suggesting that I wouldn't have TM and Patent infringement issues as well.

So you're saying that I can copy the gameplay, odds and rules exactly but just not call it Three Card Poker? This sounds like a bigger task that I was anticipating, unseating a giant!
I was rather hoping to just add my side bet to the original layout like Prime was added to the original game.

Edd

I was hoping to do the same add a side bet to an existing popular game, check out my thread (New Game ' How to go from concept to reality' in Las Vegas) you may get some more useful information from everyone.

The name is important but what you need to focus on is do you have something that you can patent. The trademark, name etc can change depending on 2 things, 1 what the casinos want to call it and 2 what you can legally call it.

FYI if you are looking to patent your side-bet you will have to pay for an patent in the US which can set you back £6,000 and there has just been released a EU protection that can cover you some more rather than patenting in each individual country.

As others have said this is an expensive hobby that very few succeed.

Best of luck

Quote: jon

I don't think this is correct. 3CP is covered by a number of patents, the first is patent number 5,685,774 which expires on 7/19/2015.

I posted that EZ Bac + Dragon is now public domain, but don't recall saying the same about 3CP. If I did, please give me the link and I'll fix it.

Quote: teliot

I posted that EZ Bac + Dragon is now public domain, but don't recall saying the same about 3CP. If I did, please give me the link and I'll fix it.

That's my fault. I saw EZ Bac and remembered 3CP.
I usually forget what I go to the grocery store for
also. Sorry.

Quote: EvenBob

I usually forget what I go to the grocery store for
also. Sorry.

You too, EB? :-)

At least you are not sitting in the parking lot wondering which store I was going to !

Quote: Lucky

You too, EB? :-)

I go to the store for cat food and buy everything but
cat food. Drives me nuts. Or I put jugs in the
car for bottled water and get all the way in the
store and the jugs are still in the car.

deleted

Quote: EvenBob

I go to the store for cat food and buy everything but
cat food. Drives me nuts. Or I put jugs in the
car for bottled water and get all the way in the
store and the jugs are still in the car.

Then you're [almost] normal. At least you remember where you're going (all the way to the store) after you get in the car.

Quote: Lucky

Then you're [almost] normal. At least you remember where you're going (all the way to the store) after you get in the car.

The problem isn't a bad memory, I'm always
thinking about something other than what I'm
doing. It used to be called absent mindedness
and has nothing to do with memory. Eastern
religions even address this state of mind. They
claim we seldom live in the present moment,
so we aren't really 'living'.

Quote: EvenBob

Quote: Lucky

Then you're [almost] normal. At least you remember where you're going (all the way to the store) after you get in the car.

The problem isn't a bad memory, I'm always
thinking about something other than what I'm
doing. It used to be called absent mindedness
and has nothing to do with memory. Eastern
religions even address this state of mind. They
claim we seldom live in the present moment,
so we aren't really 'living'.

I think they call it "Monkey Mind"


ZCore13

Oh. Thanks EB! Now I can claim to be [almost] normal too ... just a bit distracted with an abstract state of being.