doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
• Posts: 229
September 4th, 2012 at 1:25:19 PM permalink
News flash:
"Luck" is the middle name!q]

News flash:
No it isn't...For anyone who cares to stop by our booth, you'll find out.
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
September 4th, 2012 at 1:34:32 PM permalink
Quote: doubleluck

I'm not understanding all the sudden chatter about the HE being so high when everyone originally stated that the HE was far too low. From my understanding, and I could be absolutely WRONG on this but, bets being resolved does not equate to the HE. The HE on these wagers are 2.63%, 4.21%, and 5.26% -- GLI ran the rumbers & I have the report to prove it. However, when the 18.18% number was mentioned in the thread that was NOT the HE.....that is how long it takes before there is a resolution on the wager. From my understanding, this means that since most gamblers leave bets that push in action, this would mean that the 3-spot sections would have money "in action" 81.82% of them time. If I'm wrong on this please help me understand as well as how the GLI report is so totally off-base.

Thanks.....

First off, you post a thread on Labor Day weekend in the US.
Baseball, BBQs, drinking, partying, having a great time.

I did not even think about the HE per spin and per bet resolved until I was having a BBQ dinner and was shooting the breeze with Guido.

He started to count on his fingers and said the HE was quoted as per spin and that should make the 2 to 1 Yellow worse than the 2 to 1 on the Big 6 wheel.

We laughed at it and he went back to flipping burgers (his specialty) and I see he posted his thoughts last night.

You need to understand gaming math.

house edge per spin and per bet resolved can be two different values.

These are horrible bets for the player.
They will find this out very quickly.

Time for you to learn some math from the Wizard

BTW IMO very possible the GLI guys did you a total disservice.
Very incomplete unless you just did not understand the math they showed you.
if they did not show you both values and explained to you the difference in them,
they are not the ones folks want to use in the future.
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
• Posts: 229
September 4th, 2012 at 1:41:01 PM permalink
Thanks 7Craps,

Are place bets in craps horrible for the player or are the one-roll bets better? How are these two any different?
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
September 4th, 2012 at 1:45:54 PM permalink
Quote: doubleluck

Thanks 7Craps,

Are place bets in craps horrible for the player or are the one-roll bets better?

Some are way better than others.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/

Place bets also have a per roll and per bet resolved values.
About halfway down the page is a nice table to view.

Since most craps players leave their bet up until a resolution, I would go by that value.
House edge is used to calculate the Expected Value (EV) or Expected Loss for the player.

The EV tells the story
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
September 4th, 2012 at 1:59:45 PM permalink
You just need to recalculate the house edge and different payoffs yourself and see.

The Yellow at 2 to 1 is 18.18% per bet resolved
edit
at 5 to 2 is -4.5% (- 1/22)
this looks much better or
(12 to 5 is -07.27% (- 4/55)
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
• Posts: 229
September 4th, 2012 at 2:00:34 PM permalink
Well Gentlemen, it's back to the grind and back to work....I may be silent for a while after coming to the forum because I now have LOTS of work to do! For those of you who provided constructive feedback, thanks for all your help and I'll see you in a few weeks.
doubleluck
Joined: Jun 16, 2012
• Posts: 229
September 4th, 2012 at 2:01:31 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

You just need to recalculate the house edge and different payoffs yourself and see.

The Yellow at 2 to 1 is 18.18%
at 5 to 2 is 9.09% this looks much better

Thanks 7craps!
7craps
Joined: Jan 23, 2010
• Posts: 1977
September 4th, 2012 at 2:17:24 PM permalink
Quote: doubleluck

Well Gentlemen, it's back to the grind and back to work....I may be silent for a while after coming to the forum because I now have LOTS of work to do! For those of you who provided constructive feedback, thanks for all your help and I'll see you in a few weeks.

You should easily be able to make house edge adjustments/payoffs yourself quite quickly.

Hey, a casino may even LOVE the idea of a 18.18% HE bet that pays 2 to 1.
I am sure they could adjust the payoffs to meet their liking.

The long term problem I see with this is gamblers after losing and losing and losing stop making certain bets, even without knowing the HE.

The Craps Field bet is a case in point.
Years ago, it was over 11% HE as I recall (too lazy to pick up Scarne's book)
and they tried, over the years, different numbers and different payoffs until players liked the current ones and they still play it.

Remember the game of Craps as it is today was not invented, it evolved from a popular game to what it is today. During the 2 world wars, it was the most popular casino game.

I actually like the color idea.
Many gamblers have favorite colors.
I do not know if all your colors are the ones that are liked the most

Continued Good Luck
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
• Posts: 12719
September 4th, 2012 at 3:11:35 PM permalink
I still think Roulette Keno would have been a good idea...it could have been so cheap!
Vultures can't be choosers.
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
• Posts: 24149
September 4th, 2012 at 5:20:22 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

I actually like the color idea.
Many gamblers have favorite colors.

Good grief. Thats not going to save this. Look at
Alphabet Roulette. There was a dynamite idea,
replace the numbers with letters and spell your
name or cuss words or whatever. It actually got
an install, where it died a very long boring death.

And it was a good idea.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal