EZ Pai Gow - 50 Installations
August 30th, 2012 at 9:54:11 AM
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I know that PaigowDan won't blow his own horn, but I certainly will.
Congrats Dan and keep those installs of EZ PGP coming.....my DEQ stock position needs the increased recurring revenue!
DEQ Announces_50 EZ_PGP_Installs
Congrats Dan and keep those installs of EZ PGP coming.....my DEQ stock position needs the increased recurring revenue!
DEQ Announces_50 EZ_PGP_Installs
August 30th, 2012 at 10:20:30 AM
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Congrats Dan.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 30th, 2012 at 10:30:04 AM
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Wow Dan. Very well done, and congrats!
Vote for Nobody 2020!
August 30th, 2012 at 10:42:15 AM
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Congratulations Dan!!! Remember to keep us posted on new locations. I look forward to playing it in Biloxi when it gets there.
August 30th, 2012 at 10:43:10 AM
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Great job! Congrats!
August 30th, 2012 at 10:45:04 AM
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Mazel Tov!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 30th, 2012 at 10:50:52 AM
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Awesome Dan! Congrats.
August 30th, 2012 at 10:51:25 AM
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Congrats Dan!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:07:49 AM
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Dan, Congra!!! Time to consider retire or make the next move. Talk to your lovely wife.
August 30th, 2012 at 11:41:20 AM
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likewise!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
August 30th, 2012 at 11:49:18 AM
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Congratulations, Dan!! I hope it keeps going well for your game!!
August 30th, 2012 at 12:29:08 PM
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Is there a list of the casinos that its in or is this
another super secret the industry doesn't want
the public to know. Try calling DEQ and ask them,
I guarantee they won't tell you. They want you
to play it, but the won't tell you where it is.
another super secret the industry doesn't want
the public to know. Try calling DEQ and ask them,
I guarantee they won't tell you. They want you
to play it, but the won't tell you where it is.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 30th, 2012 at 2:05:17 PM
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Thaks, all! :)
It's in a lot of places:
The Borgata - Atlantic City
Barona Casino - San Diego
Cannery Casinos, Riviera, Boulder station, Fiesta Henderson, Hooters Casino - Las vegas
Lumiere Place - missouri
Ameristar Casinos - mid-west
Etc.
I actually had 50 tables out a month or so ago...60+ now...more coming...
It's in a lot of places:
The Borgata - Atlantic City
Barona Casino - San Diego
Cannery Casinos, Riviera, Boulder station, Fiesta Henderson, Hooters Casino - Las vegas
Lumiere Place - missouri
Ameristar Casinos - mid-west
Etc.
I actually had 50 tables out a month or so ago...60+ now...more coming...
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 30th, 2012 at 2:38:11 PM
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Congratulations, Dan! It's a fantastic game!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 30th, 2012 at 3:47:44 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanI actually had 50 tables out a month or so ago...60+ now...more coming...
Yeah, DEQ announced the 50+ install level for EZ PGP on the earnings conference call in late July......also said more installs coming as other multi property operators looking at putting it in throughout their portfolio of properties. This is huge for Dan and EZ PGP.
Guys....what Dan has done here is significant, it may have taken longer than he may have wanted, but I bet EZPGP is going to be north of 100+ tables in the next 12 months. Install momentum is going exponential.
At the quarter ended 5/31/11, DEQ listed 26 installs for EZ PGP....to be at 60+ fifteen months later is an incredible pace.
August 30th, 2012 at 6:25:28 PM
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When is the book Casino Game Design coming out?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 30th, 2012 at 6:31:16 PM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
August 30th, 2012 at 6:37:49 PM
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Dan, can i assume that there will be champagne at your retirement party?
And of course, that for this special occasion only, AP's will be welcome !
And of course, that for this special occasion only, AP's will be welcome !
August 30th, 2012 at 6:44:36 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffDan, can i assume that there will be champagne at your retirement party?
Dan's wife told him he can go to part time dealing
when he hits 500 installs. Right around the corner.
I'm guessing Dan makes between $6000 and $12000
a month on 60 installations. How much longer before
he devotes all his time to game design.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 30th, 2012 at 8:36:55 PM
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Were I Dan, the answer would be yesterday !!! For reasons I am sure Dan is painfully aware of .
August 31st, 2012 at 1:35:29 PM
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Quote: EvenBob
I'm guessing Dan makes between $6000 and $12000
a month on 60 installations. How much longer before
he devotes all his time to game design.
No comment from Dan? He must be working a double
holiday shift..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 31st, 2012 at 1:42:50 PM
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Why we he publically comment on a statement regarding his personal finances?
August 31st, 2012 at 1:53:58 PM
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Quote: EvenBobWhen is the book Casino Game Design coming out?
The book is a "when time allows" kind of thing. I do want to do it eventually, but will need a big block of time for that.
It is not a "take a game, make a fix, or think up a new game, and slap it all together" kind of thing.
If it were as easy as you think, anyone could do it successfully. It isn't. For that matter, you could say that to do an academy award film would be: "whip up a good story and just film it" - what could be simpler? slap together a script, grab a director, toss in a few key grips on location and PRESTO! - done to perfection. Collect the millions....Naah...
The money is good, it takes a load off my shoulders, but I can't and won't retired until both my wife and I can do so. The bulk of the money goes to the distributor, who does a lot of work and has a lot of overhead.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 2:00:28 PM
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Congratulations Dan, on my way to Borgata now to play EZ pai gow.
August 31st, 2012 at 2:01:40 PM
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Quote: bwCongratulations Dan, on my way to Borgata now to play EZ pai gow.
Thanks - and enjoy!!!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 2:28:04 PM
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Quote: ParadigmWhy we he publically comment on a statement regarding his personal finances?
Because how much game sellers get is public
knowledge, its in books written on the subject,
its not a secret. If he writes a book on game
design it has to be in there, how much designers
make. He's already said he and his wife both
drive new cars because of it. He's not doing this
for nothing, you know. And I was lowballing
6K-12K, BTW. It could easily be more.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 31st, 2012 at 2:38:45 PM
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No, it's less that that at this current point, but more than dealing.
Some things I do gratis, some things I don't, like everyone else.
The game design book will have expense descriptions and risk-to-reward considerations.
Some things I do gratis, some things I don't, like everyone else.
The game design book will have expense descriptions and risk-to-reward considerations.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 3:13:16 PM
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Can we assume forum members will get an autographed copy ?
August 31st, 2012 at 3:21:33 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffCan we assume forum members will get an autographed copy ?
Yes, sure. But it won't be for a while.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 3:29:59 PM
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Quote: EvenBobBecause how much game sellers get is public
knowledge, its in books written on the subject,
its not a secret. If he writes a book on game design it has to be in there,.....
Evidently it isn't public knowledge or you wouldn't have a such a large range of monthly income and be wrong. What he in particular makes on EZ Pai Gow in his deal with DEQ is going to be in his book? I doubt that very much.
But you can keep guessing and I suspect that Dan will not respond with specifics, nor should he.
August 31st, 2012 at 3:59:58 PM
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Quote: Paradigm
But you can keep guessing .
I'm not guessing at all. Do the research like
I did, you'll find out all about it. I'm not
giving it to you for free, I don't do that anymore.
As Dan's installations go up and game becomes
more popular and makes more money for the
casinos, Dan's cut goes up. And up and up.
Dan himself talks about it in the book segment
I linked to. I have a source that says the best
games, like 3 Card Poker, can command over
$2000 a month, per installation. Multiply that
by 500-700 installations and you're almost
talking about real money. Millions a year..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 31st, 2012 at 4:44:02 PM
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Keep in mind that's for the best games.Quote: EvenBobI have a source that says the best
games, like 3 Card Poker, can command over
$2000 a month, per installation. Multiply that
by 500-700 installations and you're almost
talking about real money. Millions a year..
No offense to Dan, while EZ Pai Gow is a great game, it's not an entirely new game. It displaces a game that is free for the casino, where 3CP may displace a free game, or a lower performing (albeit probably cheaper) proprietary game.
For what it's worth, in discussions I have had regarding Poker For Roulette, it's typical for casinos to pay something in the $500 range for a side bet, per month per table for a side bet, and the inventor would get 20% of that.
When I start mentally counting casinos and Roulette tables just in the USA... Yeah, I can live off that. :B
Last edited by: DJTeddyBear on Mar 21, 2021
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 31st, 2012 at 5:02:12 PM
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I don't believe $500/month for a side bet or $2,000/month for 3 Card Poker are currently accurate figures.
August 31st, 2012 at 5:30:37 PM
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Quote: ParadigmI don't believe $500/month for a side bet or $2,000/month for 3 Card Poker are currently accurate figures.
I agree. Plus never judge games by Vegas values.
August 31st, 2012 at 5:43:39 PM
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I don't want to create a thread just for this question:
Does anyone know why Three-Card and LiR are not combined? The player gets Three, the Community (LiR) gets two, you resolve that, and then throw the third Dealer Three-Card card out there and resolve that.
Seems like it would save money.
Does anyone know why Three-Card and LiR are not combined? The player gets Three, the Community (LiR) gets two, you resolve that, and then throw the third Dealer Three-Card card out there and resolve that.
Seems like it would save money.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 31st, 2012 at 6:14:27 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearKeep in mind that's for the best games.
No offense to Dan, while EZ Pai Gow is a great game, it's not an entirely new game. It displaces a game that is free for the casino, where 3CP may displace a free game, or a lower performing (albeit probably cheaper) proprietary game.
For what it's worth, in discussions I have had regarding Poker For Roulette, it's typical for casinos to pay something in the $500 range for a side bet, per month per table for a side bet, and the inventor would get 20% of that.
EZ Pai Gow is not a side bet for a game, it is a variation of the main game's procedures. The rules of the game itself are modified:
1. Payouts on the main game bets go from 0.95 to 1.0 (full even money pays).
2. Dealer's hand does not qualify - if it is a particular pai gow hand; queen-high is used as the best mathematical replacement of the commission's effect.
Quote: DJTeddyBearWhen I start mentally counting casinos and Roulette tables just in the USA... Yeah, I can live off that. :B
Remember, I license the game to DEQ, and they do all the marketing, training, gaming authority approvals, and installing, and so they get most of its revenue.
If I had done all the marketing, training, game approvals, installing, etc., I would get 100% after HUGE expenses, (now paid), and would be able to retire with my wife now. But, I would not have been able to do it alone, and the game would not have come to be. Good for DEQ in going a great job with it, and they deserve their percentage.
I do know a guy who invented a good side bet for Blackjack, and got all the game approvals and does the install training himself, and he was able to quit dealing/flooring/casino pit work at about 50 installs, but gets much more income from lower-priced installs because he gets 100%. Bringing out a pure side bet is a lot easier than a full game kit.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 6:16:13 PM
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Quote: ParadigmI don't believe $500/month for a side bet or $2,000/month for 3 Card Poker are currently accurate figures.
They aren't, it's less. Side bets can be $80-$250 a month, and full games $300-$1,500 a month. Three card is near the top due to its popularity and general performance.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
August 31st, 2012 at 6:40:22 PM
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Actually Streak was getting $300 a month from approximately 2000-2010 in Colorado. But that was because of the $5 limit.
People gave up on betting all 7 spots and Multi-action in quick order. But some people well big winners occasionally on streak.
They would bet all 4 spots with $5.
Interesting is the fact that when limits were raised to $100 Streak almost died. But on my last visit the Lodge had 3 tables and
Ameristar ( Death Star ) has 6 Streak tables, with beautiful LED lighted Table Level signs.
People gave up on betting all 7 spots and Multi-action in quick order. But some people well big winners occasionally on streak.
They would bet all 4 spots with $5.
Interesting is the fact that when limits were raised to $100 Streak almost died. But on my last visit the Lodge had 3 tables and
Ameristar ( Death Star ) has 6 Streak tables, with beautiful LED lighted Table Level signs.
August 31st, 2012 at 8:05:28 PM
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For the record, I didn't really believe the $500 side bet number either.Quote: ParadigmI don't believe $500/month for a side bet or $2,000/month for 3 Card Poker are currently accurate figures.
But I gotta figure that whatever it is, and whatever the actual percentage is, with the thousands of Roulette wheels in the USA, if I get installed on just a small percentage of those tables, I'd be doing OK.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 31st, 2012 at 8:08:36 PM
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Quote: EvenBobBecause how much game sellers get is public
knowledge, its in books written on the subject,
its not a secret. If he writes a book on game
design it has to be in there, how much designers
make.
On the contrary, most license contracts contain confidentiality clauses which expressly prohibit either party from disclosing the terms. Ballparks figures are one thing, but you won't likely read Dan posting about his actual license details with DEQ.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
August 31st, 2012 at 8:08:39 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBear
But I gotta figure that whatever it is, and whatever the actual percentage is, with the thousands of Roulette wheels in the USA, if I get installed on just a small percentage of those tables, I'd be doing OK.
1500 casinos in the US. Figure an average of two
wheels per casino to make for the casinos that have
no table games, thats 3000 wheels.
The most roulette wheels at any one casino is in
Mar del Plata, Argentina which has over 100 roulette tables.
In the US Foxwoods has the most with 36.
Borgata in Atlantic City has 26.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
August 31st, 2012 at 8:17:44 PM
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Quote: PaigowdanThey aren't, it's less. Side bets can be $80-$250 a month, and full games $300-$1,500 a month. Three card is near the top due to its popularity and general performance.
The only current justification for a $2000 tag on a game is if it comes with (or better, requires) electronics of some sort. Full blown e-tables sometimes lease for not much more than that, and there are significant efficiencies gained from e-tables compared to felt. There are no non-electronic felt games currently commanding anywhere close to $2000/month.
Also, to whomever is attempting to guess at Dan's monthly income, don't forget the effects of trial placements. 50 product installs doesn't mean 50 revenue-generating installs.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
August 31st, 2012 at 8:52:06 PM
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" don't forget the effects of trial placements"
How goes the dominos ? Just curious.
How goes the dominos ? Just curious.
August 31st, 2012 at 9:30:23 PM
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Quote: buzzpaffHow goes the dominos ? Just curious.
Nothing yet, but I'm not really spending much time marketing. It's a solid game but it's still a longshot and I'm focusing on the sure things on my plate right now.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
August 31st, 2012 at 9:48:49 PM
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I think your game is a sure thing in certain ethnic areas.
August 31st, 2012 at 10:00:29 PM
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If you know those certain ethnic areas, and you can make that happen, then you earning a royalty is also a sure thing.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
