Questions about Ballys 8/5 match card bonus machines

I am from the pacific northwest and my favorite Indian casino got rid of their coin operated machines and with them went the full pay poker machines of every variety... So one casino has game kings with really crappy 6/5 jacks with no bonus or double down.. The other has these bally machines with I believe an 8/5 pay table but has a bonus that if you match a random card tithe 5th card of your hand after you've drawn, it will award "any amount up to and including the royal flush". I do not like these machines because I feel they do not play within statistically acceptable parameters... But I don't know enough about them to say much.

So with a 1/52 chance of winnin the bonus I have no idea if it's all random or if the amounts of the bonus are weighted so lower amounts are more common or what... I would like to know what the % payback is for these machines and any ideas how these machines operate would be appreciated. I haven't made up my mind yet whether or not I think these are video pull tab variety or actual poker machines because they really do not play like any machine I've ever played. Out of 10 sessions if I plotted my bankroll you would see my balance would make about a 45 degree slope downwards lol and I'm not kidding. I am used to playing a nickel machine for hours on a $20... But on these the most a $20 has lasted is like 30 minutes so I am highly suspicious.

If this is in Washington state, I would assume that these games are the pull tab variety (central determination is the term I've heard in the business). When they make poker games out of these, the games are very unrealistic. What happens is that the server, or central determination system, chooses an award amount then the game has to display that award somehow. On IGT machines, if you throw away something that was required in the final winning hand, you will actually get a fairy fly across the screen to fix your cards. I once watched a man play one of these games and he wasn't catching anything, it was horrible. Then after about 20 minutes, I saw the fairy come across the screen. I was so dissapointed and lost all interest in the game, but it explained the horrible draws he kept getting.

Crystal is right, all machines in WA function as pull tabs or scratch tickets.

Washington State Gambling Commission Tribal Lottery Sytem FAQ

More history here: WA history of machine gaming

What isn't mentioned is how the tribes paid big lobbying dollars to various gov't folks to ensue they would not have to pay taxes to the state, and make sure that the state's online gambling ban was put into law.

OMG this makes me sick :( bonus rounds turn out the same no matter how you interact in Washington... That the plays come from a finite set of virtual tickets... I'm avoiding Washington casinos like the plague... I mean seriously I had my suspicions and this confirms them. To my knowledge Idaho doesn't operate like this. I noticed for a while he machines at northern quest would say "requesting draw" when you hit play. Coming from a poker machine this tipped me off and sent up a red flag... The slots said it too... And explains why the poker machines act like slots.

So can we go one step further? Washington casinos call the slot cards player tracking... While I know in "white man" gambling the cards do not affect the outcome. But in Washington, with predetermined game sets how hard would it be to generate a game set based on th players history? No one would ever know. I notice distinct differences with or without cards in Washington but in Idaho there's no anomalies that I've noticed.

Thanks so much for your help and the links... But also if this match card bonus were not a pulltab what would it's return be? Or is there not a way to know?

On a real video poker machine, the game would have to tell you the expected pay of the bonus. Using this information, you could calcualte a return.

As for altering the pay per player, there are regulations in place that do not allow that. I've had experience in testing systems used in Washington. None of them use your player information in any way. It is crappy enough for them to use this pull tab system anyway and I agree with "OMG this makes me sick."

Also, Idaho uses mainstream regulations, so the poker games will actually have 52 cards with an equal chance of getting any one card.

Very nice to know :) I always knew Washington was a communist state :) but it makes sense now why on a 6/5 jacks machine in Idaho I win more than I do on the commie pulltab pokers in Washington. If I had known this sooner I would never have put another dime in a Washington machine... There's a billboard in Spokane advertising northern quest casino and it says what happens in Vegas happens in northern quest... I am soooo going to write them a dirty letter for false advertising.. And to add insult to injury the state minimum payout is 75%!!!!! This is asinine!

Ok I'm done ranting and raving :)

To be fair, I'm pretty sure the law in Nevada mandates a minimum 75% payout on slots as well..but casinos select much higher payouts since there is more competition.

You will also see 6/5 type schedules on Oregon State Lottery video poker machines because they are 'real' video poker as well.

With the lottery poker such as washington has or I guess I could coin a pun and call them "po-tabs" lmao I couldn't help it... The paytable is not functional because the server can have any set of outcomes adding up to anything over 75% right?

Well for Vegas to set payouts so tight would be suicide... Unhappy gamblers quit soon... If you let them play a long time they are happier to lose $100 a day for a week than to lose $100 an hour for a day... But you know... It is ridiculous that on he paydirt machine when it first showed up I wanted to get the bonus so bad that I put $100 in and playing 20 cents a punch I lost the whole $100 with no bonus round. I made up my mind then something was crooked... But if they can allow real tables with dice and cards why are they so against random gaming machines?

Correct re: paytables. Reading the pay tables in WA tells you nothing.

As far as the lack of random gambling machines... I would venture a guess that the casinos actually prefer the po-tab format since that way they know exactly how much they will earn off each 'pool'..no variance. Plus, unlike actual pull tabs, they don't have to pull the game when the big prizes are gone since nobody knows if they are gone or not.

Wow... I never thought about that... Well I am fixing to rant and rave about this issue on craigslist... Maybe revealing such a truth would cause people to complain to the state and maybe get them to adopt a new system... I Cant think of a more dishonest way to gamble and perhaps they allow table games because table games are honest it may convey a false sense of security to the slot players in convincing them the games are random too.

The progressive jackpots left with the coin op slots... I must be correct in thinking it is because a progressive is incompatible with the po-tab system?

I'm not sure how the progressives would work...I never even look at the machines when I'm at Snoqualmie or Muckleshoot (I play poker) so I'm not sure if they exist.

WA state gov't is pretty happy with the arrangement they have with the tribes. Afterall, WA agreed to not tax the tribal gambling revenues thanks to much lobbying dollars.