VP Machine Plays Itslef
June 8th, 2011 at 10:57:40 AM
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I was just at the Charlestown, WV casino playing VP. Both the FPDW and the JoB VP machines were making the plays for me! I would deal, and I had my cheat sheet with me, and the machine would automatically hold the correct or proper cards for me automatically. All I had to do was repress the deal button for my draw. I was a bit skeptical and little and mistrusting so I only played for about 10 minutes before going to Pai Gow Poker. It was like hitting the advice button on the Wizard's practice VP machine. Has anyone else ever encountered this and is the machine making legitimate decisions for the player or is it a mechanism to fool the player into playing poorly?
June 8th, 2011 at 11:08:38 AM
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I've never seen this. Is it a feature you can turn off and on?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
June 8th, 2011 at 11:16:45 AM
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Are they Class II machines?
I've seen it before. Usually, but not always, makes the correct play.
I've seen it before. Usually, but not always, makes the correct play.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 8th, 2011 at 11:18:43 AM
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I looked for a different switch but the machine had all the "regular" functions of a VP machine. It did let you change their recommended hold and draw cards. For example, if they had you holding to an inside straight and you wanted to discard everything, you could manually, on a hand by hand basis, change your draw and hold cards each time.
June 8th, 2011 at 11:20:20 AM
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No Charlestown has all the state of the art gaming. in fact they have gotten so busy, they are building a second hotel on premises and have opened a 4 star lavish steakhouse.
June 8th, 2011 at 11:27:36 AM
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dingdingding! Try throwing away a three of a kind. Betcha a dollar that the machine deals you another or better.Quote: teddysAre they Class II machines?
I've seen it before. Usually, but not always, makes the correct play.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
June 8th, 2011 at 11:38:45 AM
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From http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html
Quote:WEST VIRGINIA
West Virginia has four pari-mutuel facilities that feature video lottery terminals. The VLT's are the same as regular video gaming devices but are called lottery terminals because they are regulated by the state's lottery commission which receives a share of each machine's revenue.
The maximum allowable bet on a machine is $2 and there is no limit on the prize payouts. Most of the gaming machines pay out coins or tokens, but there are also some machines which will only print out a receipt which must be taken to a cashier.
West Virginia law requires that VLTs return a minimum of 80% to a maximum of 95%. VLT games include: slots, blackjack, keno and numerous versions of poker.
For the one-year period from July 1, 2009 through June 30, 2010 the average return on VLTs was: 90.93% at Mountaineer Park, 89.89% at Tri-State Park, 89.89% at Wheeling Island and 89.84% at Charles Town Races.
Man Babes #AxelFabulous
June 8th, 2011 at 11:38:55 AM
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To be honest I did not ask. Anything is possible. I know I have never seen a machine(s) like that before.
June 8th, 2011 at 11:40:30 AM
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West Virginia allows Class III games at racetracks under provisions of the WV Lottery. Same with the live table games -- they're technically sponsored by the state lottery.
Some jurisdictions require that VP games provide an auto-hold feature. That's all this is. It's not a class II game (remember, that's only relevant on tribal land) nor is it a central-determinant electronic pull-tab system like New York. It's an actual VP game, just like Vegas.
I tried to find any regulations on whether the auto-hold feature must hold optimally, but I couldn't in the few minutes I spent on the Internet. Contacting the WV Lottery might help, or perhaps the racetrack operator.
WV Lottery
Some jurisdictions require that VP games provide an auto-hold feature. That's all this is. It's not a class II game (remember, that's only relevant on tribal land) nor is it a central-determinant electronic pull-tab system like New York. It's an actual VP game, just like Vegas.
I tried to find any regulations on whether the auto-hold feature must hold optimally, but I couldn't in the few minutes I spent on the Internet. Contacting the WV Lottery might help, or perhaps the racetrack operator.
WV Lottery
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
June 8th, 2011 at 11:41:59 AM
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Thanks miplet. The only thing I will say is they have completely rewritten some or all of their laws since the inception of a large number of table games late last year. The max play on my machine was 25 credits at .25 for $5 dollars a draw, which i was playing. Also there were other $1 VP machines that had up to a 5 max bet.
June 8th, 2011 at 11:45:32 AM
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Thanks Math. They looked like class III to me, I have played class II before at a Seminole casino so I kind of know what they look like. Like I said they also allowed you $5 a draw per play. My question would be do they have to recommend optimal strategy play or are they allowed to dispense less than optimal advice?
June 8th, 2011 at 11:54:33 AM
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Who decides what "Optimal Strategy" is?
And, assuming the strategy suggested really is "optimal", ask yourself "Why".
I'd bet that if they are holding cards based on even reasonable strategy, then players are playing at a higher level than if they had to figure it out for themselves. That's gotta cost them something.
Check out the pay table, and find out if they're really Class III.
And, assuming the strategy suggested really is "optimal", ask yourself "Why".
I'd bet that if they are holding cards based on even reasonable strategy, then players are playing at a higher level than if they had to figure it out for themselves. That's gotta cost them something.
Check out the pay table, and find out if they're really Class III.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
June 8th, 2011 at 12:00:26 PM
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Anything they might lose should be made up by more hands player per hour ??
June 8th, 2011 at 12:04:32 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearWho decides what "Optimal Strategy" is?
Optimal has only one meaning here -- which one of the 32 possible hold configurations yields the highest return for that hand. The question is whether that strategy is what the auto-hold uses.
Typically games with auto-holds have lower paytables to compensate. An 8/5 JoB game with optimal auto-hold can be worth less to a casino than a 9/6 JoB game without one. It all depends on how good the players are.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
June 8th, 2011 at 12:13:01 PM
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Quote: hook3670The max play on my machine was 25 credits at .25 for $5 dollars a draw, which i was playing.
Typo, or an ingenious extra cut for the house? Use up $6.25 in credits on each $5 draw! ;-)
June 8th, 2011 at 12:20:19 PM
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Sorry Doc its a good thing I keep the companies books a little straighter! :)
June 8th, 2011 at 12:48:20 PM
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It's just an auto-hold feature.
One of the local indian casino's has this enabled on a 9/6 JoB game...I can use it to play 1000 hph easily.
One of the local indian casino's has this enabled on a 9/6 JoB game...I can use it to play 1000 hph easily.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ
June 8th, 2011 at 1:31:25 PM
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So now Video Poker players can be the mindless button-pushers that slot players are. Brilliant.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
June 8th, 2011 at 1:35:14 PM
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I've a crummy casino game in my cellphone that has some VP variants. It does hold cards automatically. You can change them, but can't turn the feature off. A common mistake it makes is on DW if you're dealt two deuces and trash, it will hold the deuces and the high card. That's wrong strategy.
BTW it also has a lousy pay table...
BTW it also has a lousy pay table...
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 8th, 2011 at 1:49:48 PM
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Wait a sec...Quote: NareedBTW it also has a lousy pay table...
Are you complaining about the pay table on your cell phone game?
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
June 8th, 2011 at 1:55:12 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearWait a sec...
Are you complaining about the pay table on your cell phone game?
Not quite. I'm just amazed when the house doesn't actually have to pay it still won't give you a fair return.
But the game's crappy well beyond the paytables. And it doesn't have craps.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 8th, 2011 at 1:55:59 PM
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Nareed, that may be one of the funniest things I have read. A bad pay table on the cell phone!!! That's hardcore.
June 8th, 2011 at 2:15:20 PM
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Quote: TIMSPEEDOne of the local indian casino's has this enabled on a 9/6 JoB game...I can use it to play 1000 hph easily.
But why would you want to on a -EV game?
June 8th, 2011 at 3:53:44 PM
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I stopped at that casino when it first opened. I walked around the casino and checked the pay tables. they were so bad I didn't play. 95% was the best I saw. 6/5 JOB, if I remember right.
I've seen auto hold at the Southland Racecino in West Memphis.
I've seen auto hold at the Southland Racecino in West Memphis.
June 21st, 2011 at 6:24:30 PM
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I encountered some auto-hold machines on a cruise ship a few years ago. Half of the machines had the feature, the other half did not. Pay tables were identical. The strange thing was, about 10% of the auto-hold decisions were incorrect.
Joseph Kulas
January 29th, 2012 at 9:25:38 PM
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They have these machines out in Alberta too. You can change what they suggest by pressing the cards on the screen or button....so if it was showing hold and you touch that card it turns to not being held.
Thing is if you are dealt two aces and say a pair of sixes it will hold all four cards so the best you are playing for is a fullhouse.... even on a double double bonus game where 4 aces pays $800 and with a kicker pays $2000 ( on a dollar machine).
Seen people who have no clue not even looking at the cards just pressing deal deal deal all night long.
Thing is if you are dealt two aces and say a pair of sixes it will hold all four cards so the best you are playing for is a fullhouse.... even on a double double bonus game where 4 aces pays $800 and with a kicker pays $2000 ( on a dollar machine).
Seen people who have no clue not even looking at the cards just pressing deal deal deal all night long.
January 30th, 2012 at 12:17:03 AM
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deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
January 30th, 2012 at 4:09:34 AM
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Quote: mipletFrom http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html
I've been down to Mountaineer a couple of times and the VP paytables
were horrible, I think around 95 % as stated in the ACG quote. So
why would I go there ? It's close by and.....
.....They also have regular blackjack at a table with a much
much lower house advantage.
Go figure.
Mountaineer is not that nice as far as the "ambiance" is concerned.
I think the WV legislature is going to need to revise the rules once
the Ohio casinos are up and running. On any given day, my guess
is that at least 1/2 of the license plates in the parking lot are OHIO
and not WV.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
