A couple of extremely good VP sign-up bonuses

1. The Tropicana sign-up bonus has been reinstated and is, in fact, being loudly advertised. You sign up (you must never have been a member of their slot club) and your losses that day will be reimbursed, up to $200. NB: by "that day", I mean up until midnight, so don't do this at, say, 9:00 PM. You also have to get the reimbursement that same day. You get half of it back immediately in free play, and the other half is loaded onto your card as free play on the 3rd of the following month. The good news is that both those free play amounts will stay on your card for one full year. The best way to do this is to play video poker (even if you don't have any idea what you're doing, VP is still much, much better than slots, especially tight Strip slots); the best machine is a single .25 NSUD game near the craps pit, and there are also $1 8/5 Bonus Poker machines in the high limit room. You will also get comps accrued to your card in the normal fashion--I got enough for a free dinner with about two hours' play.

2. The Vegas Club (downtown) will reimburse up to $180 of your losses in free play for 24 hours after you sign up. What you have to do to get the full bonus is play $2500 through the machines. However, you can take smaller amounts of free play for lesser amounts of coin-in, and those amounts are awarded in increments. The best VP machines are fullpay 20/7 Joker, a game that offers a positive (100.6%) return with best play. However, points are earned on those machines at 1/3 the normal rate, meaning it would take $7500 coin-in (8-10 hours) of play to get the full rebate. It's probably better to play fullpay JOB, suffer an expected loss of about $12, then collect the rebate. (You can't use the freeplay on the Joker machines anyway.) You also accrue points at the normal rate, and I was pleasantly surprised when I earned not only the rebate, but around $6 in additional free play and a $20 food comp.

I don't know how to exactly calculate the value of the Trop rebate (since it's contingent on a loss), but my gut calculation shows that if fully exploited, it's worth somewhere around $70. The Vegas Club rebate is more straightforward---you get about $200 in free play and comps for an expected loss of $12.

I just did these with my nephew, and we had a blast. Our results were somewhat worse than expectation, but we still made beaucoup $$$. Sign-up bonuses are a great way to introduce newbies to casino gambling, and the trick, of course, is to sign up, use the offer, and then walk back out the door. If you combine these offers with a membership in LVA and the ACG coupon book (the LVA gets you the Terrible's $100 new signup loss rebate offer), then you can give someone the Vegas grand tour, introduce them to gambling, and make the journey profitable enough to pay for rooms and food.

Those things are a waste of time for most players. They're geared towards low rollers and are used by struggling properties to rope in those with small bankrolls more than once, who will likely also use whatever card from their arsenal that doesn't get declined in the ATM's. LVA sells access to these type coupons, which says it all right there.

Here's a hint: They didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, and they didn't do it expecting to book a loss.

Quote: RobSinger

Those things are a waste of time for most players. They're geared towards low rollers and are used by struggling properties to rope in those with small bankrolls more than once, who will likely also use whatever card from their arsenal that doesn't get declined in the ATM's. LVA sells access to these type coupons, which says it all right there.

Here's a hint: They didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, and they didn't do it expecting to book a loss.

They may be a waste of time for many players, but clearly not all. Correct, they don't do it out of kindness, and they don't expect to book a loss. Do they put all those VP machines that you play in expecting to book a loss? Yet you would aver that when you are playing those machines, that the casino is about to pay out more than they take in. I am sure that many (most?) players that use the coupons do end up losing more than they win. But if it is your goal to make a small win using those coupons, I am guessing it is not that hard. The casinos count on most players not having the ability to leave after that small win.
The initial post by mkl is what this forum is about... giving info that others may find useful.. I personally have no interest in VP and the clubs, but find no value in denigrating someone who wants to share his findings.
They may be 'geared towards low rollers', but that's what many of us are.

Quote: SOOPOO

They may be a waste of time for many players, but clearly not all. Correct, they don't do it out of kindness, and they don't expect to book a loss. Do they put all those VP machines that you play in expecting to book a loss? Yet you would aver that when you are playing those machines, that the casino is about to pay out more than they take in. I am sure that many (most?) players that use the coupons do end up losing more than they win. But if it is your goal to make a small win using those coupons, I am guessing it is not that hard. The casinos count on most players not having the ability to leave after that small win.
The initial post by mkl is what this forum is about... giving info that others may find useful.. I personally have no interest in VP and the clubs, but find no value in denigrating someone who wants to share his findings.
They may be 'geared towards low rollers', but that's what many of us are.

You've got to realize that Singer's internet persona is geared toward sneering at what he calls "low rollers", and that his professed strategy is geared toward deliberately playing the WORST video poker machines, and then also deliberately playing inferior strategies. So it's no surprise that he sneers at anyone who actually plays properly, and takes advantage of good offers. In fact, you can pretty much bank on the fact that if Singer disrecommends any given VP play, then that play is very much worth doing.

Of course, the promo isn't done out of love for the players--that was a trivial and silly statement on Singer's part. A grocery store doesn't offer a special on bottles of Pepsi and cans of chili out of love for its customers, either--but if you scan the ads, walk in there and buy just Pepsi and chili, and then walk out, you're taking advantage of the sale without also taking the bait (i.e., shopping for other items, if this is a store you wouldn't normally patronize).

Re coupons: Stations, when they gave out an abundance of free play to locals, recovered between 90 and 95% of the free play, so the promotion cost them far less than the face value of the free play. Yet, there were some people who walked in, played off the free play, and walked right back out--myself included. At worst, it was a free lunch for the whole family.

Singer's persona may sneer at saving/earning $50, $100, etc.; however, most people care about such amounts. And doing so doesn't mean, as Singer has frequently remarked, that such people are low-life degenerates. A wise gambler knows that even a 1% edge is tough to obtain, so if I walk into a casino and get a free $100, that's equivalent to getting the expected return from $10,000 worth of play, but without the time spent or the risk incurred. That's quite valuable. Of course, if you win 175% of the time and the casinos rush up to you and stuff $100 bills in your shorts, as Singer claims, you probably don't have to worry about paying attention to promotions, or playing intelligently or well. I'm afraid that as a non-disciple of Singer, however, I have to grind out my winnings the hard way.

Quote: SOOPOO

They may be a waste of time for many players, but clearly not all. Correct, they don't do it out of kindness, and they don't expect to book a loss. Do they put all those VP machines that you play in expecting to book a loss? Yet you would aver that when you are playing those machines, that the casino is about to pay out more than they take in. I am sure that many (most?) players that use the coupons do end up losing more than they win. But if it is your goal to make a small win using those coupons, I am guessing it is not that hard. The casinos count on most players not having the ability to leave after that small win.
The initial post by mkl is what this forum is about... giving info that others may find useful.. I personally have no interest in VP and the clubs, but find no value in denigrating someone who wants to share his findings.
They may be 'geared towards low rollers', but that's what many of us are.

I'm no longer a hi-roller but I still wouldn't bother with such a deal for reasons stated. And the forum isn't only about posting info that others may find useful--its premise includes dissenting opinions that still others may find useful. If MKL felt denigrated by a different point of view, which he shouldn't, then I'm sure he has or will pop a vein in front of us all.

(And there you have it....)

Quote: RobSinger

Those things are a waste of time for most players. They're geared towards low rollers and are used by struggling properties to rope in those with small bankrolls more than once, who will likely also use whatever card from their arsenal that doesn't get declined in the ATM's. LVA sells access to these type coupons, which says it all right there.

Here's a hint: They didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, and they didn't do it expecting to book a loss.

Yes. And casinos don't book a loss because most players don't play optimally, or take advantage of offers and promotions. HOWEVER, an INDIVIDUAL can certainly realize an advantage. Saying that an INDIVIDUAL PLAYER shouldn't take advantage of good promotions because the CASINO will still make money on the promo OVERALL is crippled logic.

Playing with a 7% advantage (as you would in the Vegas Club promo) may be "a waste of time" for Singer, but I doubt that many other players would think so.

Quote: RobSinger

Those things are a waste of time for most players. They're geared towards low rollers and are used by struggling properties to rope in those with small bankrolls more than once, who will likely also use whatever card from their arsenal that doesn't get declined in the ATM's. LVA sells access to these type coupons, which says it all right there.

Here's a hint: They didn't do it out of the kindness of their hearts, and they didn't do it expecting to book a loss.

Rob, You've changed. This is good advice!

But for a low roller that's been wiped out everywhere else this still might be fun.

Yes those toilet properties will do darn near anything to get the dregs in the door. I'm there all day!