9/7 DB: Lost $1k in 750 hands

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

It sounds like just bad luck to me. When I read the thread title I thought you lost $1000 playing quarters, that would have been more impressive
.

Well, how many rewards points did you accrue and how much money would that represent and how many spins would that represent. I lost $25 in 26 spins on the home game the other day so that's about a $1 loss per spin on $1.25/spin or an 80% loss rate.

If you lost $750 in 750 spins at $5/spin, you lost 20%. Seems a bit much. I would expect a typical 8% loss or a $300 loss. But these games have streaks. I could play for 2.5 hours without hitting a quad, or go 40 hands and hit 2 quads.

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

It doesn't look like Class II to me.

According to my calculations, one standard deviation for this game at $5 per hand for 750 hands is $732, so you lost only 1.36 sd.

750 hands in a game with a 40,000 hand "cycle" is basically nothing.

Definitely just bad luck.

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

Seriously? I have gone over 2000 hands in VP without quads. And I have also hit quads twice in two hands.

It's luck. About half of it will be bad.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

It doesn't look like Class II to me.
link to original post

Why not?

I have seen some normal-looking VP (looked like IGT to me) machines in Indian reservations that have good paytables recently in Washington state. There were no strange features on the game. They had an entire multi-game bank of them and various ones throughout the casino

If they are legit, then there's probably some good opportunities to be had( Mail, drawings, promotions, etc.)

I ran very poorly in the short time I played.

Perhaps I should revisit since there is unlikely to be any competition.

I'm down $2,323.75 on a lifetime bet of $28,824.50 with total winnings of $26,075.75 in 20,729 spins on my Roku 4 Video Poker game. There's different denominations I've tried, but no Royals yet. So that's a payback of 90.46% or losing half a coin for every 5 bet before the Royal. I could win $1K, or $2K, or $4K with the different denominations here, so I could pull ahead depending on when the lucky hand hits. But with another 20K hands to go, I could be down $4K when it hits and only win $1K.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

It doesn't look like Class II to me.
link to original post

Why not?

I have seen some normal-looking VP (looked like IGT to me) machines in Indian reservations that have good paytables recently in Washington state. There were no strange features on the game. They had an entire multi-game bank of them and various ones throughout the casino

If they are legit, then there's probably some good opportunities to be had( Mail, drawings, promotions, etc.)

I ran very poorly in the short time I played.

Perhaps I should revisit since there is unlikely to be any competition.
link to original post

In Washington, you should know better. It's all TLS, right? (Read the compact!)

The Class II I see usually has a more enticing paytable displayed, and is a mandatory multiline with a novelty feature. There are also other indicators. (I'm in the wrong jurisdiction to capture field images for at least a week.)

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: 100xOdds

It's supposed to a quad every 500 hands, on avg.
So 750 hands is a little behind.

But does that explain 73% loss on a 99.1% machine???

Gafted machine?
Class 2?
Or... ?
link to original post

It doesn't look like Class II to me.
link to original post

Why not?

I have seen some normal-looking VP (looked like IGT to me) machines in Indian reservations that have good paytables recently in Washington state. There were no strange features on the game. They had an entire multi-game bank of them and various ones throughout the casino

If they are legit, then there's probably some good opportunities to be had( Mail, drawings, promotions, etc.)

I ran very poorly in the short time I played.

Perhaps I should revisit since there is unlikely to be any competition.
link to original post

In Washington, you should know better. It's all TLS, right? (Read the compact!)

The Class II I see usually has a more enticing paytable displayed, and is a mandatory multiline with a novelty feature. There are also other indicators. (I'm in the wrong jurisdiction to capture field images for at least a week.)
link to original post

As I said, the machines I came across do not have any novelty features, and the pay table is 9/6 jacks.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have seen some normal-looking VP (looked like IGT to me) machines in Indian reservations that have good paytables recently in Washington state. There were no strange features on the game. They had an entire multi-game bank of them and various ones throughout the casino

Those were probably Class III games. All 29 of Washington's recognized tribes hold Class III gaming compacts. I believe many are limited to XXX Class III games and they fill the rest of the casino with Class II.

Quote: AxelWolf

As I said, the machines I came across do not have any novelty features, and the pay table is 9/6 jacks.
link to original post

This is explicitly Class II. Note the bingo display.
(I didn't have time this visit to dig into the rules screens.)

I haven't gone hands-on investigating TLS games. I believe someone told me they were Class III, despite not being Nevada style VP.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

As I said, the machines I came across do not have any novelty features, and the pay table is 9/6 jacks.
link to original post

This is explicitly Class II. Note the bingo display.
(I didn't have time this visit to dig into the rules screens.)

I haven't gone hands-on investigating TLS games. I believe someone told me they were Class III, despite not being Nevada style VP.
link to original post

Yes, I've seen Bingo displays and I realize what class they are; however, in Washington state, I see many games without Bingo cards and have been seeing them since the 90s. Of course, there were ones that were obviously not class 3 even though there was no bingo card; they had some type of Genie or whatever that popped up.

What I'm seeing is $1 9/6 jacks or better with auto hold(I don't remember if it was full-blown autohold or just when you were dealt a winning combination). I didn't spend a whole lot of time testing, but from what I could tell, the auto hold was fairly accurate. One could easily play two machines side by side and crank out a lot of coin in with minimal effort. The one particular place I'm talking about was a small to medium-sized Casino. I don't know what type of free play they might give out I'm sure with whatever free play and promotions they have going, you would have a plus EV situation if the machines were legit. I have no idea what the hourly might be I have to further investigate.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

As I said, the machines I came across do not have any novelty features, and the pay table is 9/6 jacks.
link to original post

This is explicitly Class II. Note the bingo display.
(I didn't have time this visit to dig into the rules screens.)

I haven't gone hands-on investigating TLS games. I believe someone told me they were Class III, despite not being Nevada style VP.
link to original post

Yes, I've seen Bingo displays and I realize what class they are; however, in Washington state, I see many games without Bingo cards and have been seeing them since the 90s. Of course, there were ones that were obviously not class 3 even though there was no bingo card; they had some type of Genie or whatever that popped up.

What I'm seeing is $1 9/6 jacks or better with auto hold(I don't remember if it was full-blown autohold or just when you were dealt a winning combination). I didn't spend a whole lot of time testing, but from what I could tell, the auto hold was fairly accurate. One could easily play two machines side by side and crank out a lot of coin in with minimal effort. The one particular place I'm talking about was a small to medium-sized Casino. I don't know what type of free play they might give out I'm sure with whatever free play and promotions they have going, you would have a plus EV situation if the machines were legit. I have no idea what the hourly might be I have to further investigate.
link to original post

Not to worry. Eventually, I'll be out that way again, and I'm sure I'll get a look at a few.

I really did (and probably still do) think it was all TLS, for some reason.

I was at one of the places in NYC once. They had single line IGT video poker like you’d see anywhere else. I played until I was dealt a high pair. I then threw it away. Amazingly on the redraw it dealt me another high pair. I recently went to a place in a different state. The slot machines had historical horse racing on it. I still don’t get how that translates to the line pays on the machine. They had the same video poker machines. I did the same test and the same thing happened. They usually have good pay tables like 9/6 DDB.It would be interesting if they had a promo or something and you just played the machine fast like a slot machine without holding anything if it would continue to act like this and what the return would be.

Quote: Sandybestdog

I was at one of the places in NYC once. They had single line IGT video poker like you’d see anywhere else. I played until I was dealt a high pair. I then threw it away. Amazingly on the redraw it dealt me another high pair. I recently went to a place in a different state. The slot machines had historical horse racing on it. I still don’t get how that translates to the line pays on the machine. They had the same video poker machines. I did the same test and the same thing happened. They usually have good pay tables like 9/6 DDB.It would be interesting if they had a promo or something and you just played the machine fast like a slot machine without holding anything if it would continue to act like this and what the return would be.
link to original post

From what I’ve been able to find out those hhr vp machines are returning around 89-90% even though the pay tables say 9/6

Quote: Sandybestdog

I was at one of the places in NYC once. They had single line IGT video poker like you’d see anywhere else. I played until I was dealt a high pair. I then threw it away. Amazingly on the redraw it dealt me another high pair. I recently went to a place in a different state. The slot machines had historical horse racing on it. I still don’t get how that translates to the line pays on the machine. They had the same video poker machines. I did the same test and the same thing happened. They usually have good pay tables like 9/6 DDB.It would be interesting if they had a promo or something and you just played the machine fast like a slot machine without holding anything if it would continue to act like this and what the return would be.
link to original post

I have developed lottery based video poker games that will force a particular win amount. The ones I worked on used a "Match card" to pay any discrepancies with the expected outcome and the actual outcome.