Debate: are all VP games non-random?

Quote: MathExtremist

No, I don't seriously expect any kind of substantive contribution from Singer, but I'll let him demonstrate otherwise. The point is this: Singer came here with some ridiculous notions of how VP is secretly programmed to be unfair. When we all pointed out that it's not, and the regulations wouldn't allow it, he retorted with more ridiculous notions about confidential, non-public regulations that override the public ones. I asked him on what evidence he based his incredible claims, and he fell silent except to suggest that he might like a public debate. The Wizard thought that might make for good theater, so I said okay - let's do it. But if he remains silent, I can only assume he's realized he has no way of making his case (not that he did to begin with). I'm curious as to whether he innocently but stubbornly misinterpreted something he may have been told years ago, or if he's intentionally fabricated the entire conspiracy from whole cloth. I can correct a misunderstanding, but I can't do anything about a deliberate falsehood other than to demonstrate its error.

I lose nothing in being courteous, and it tends to keep discussions more topical than the average flame war. I've read other forums (briefly) where Singer has gotten into name-calling matches, and I don't want this forum to turn into that. Neither do you.

I think he's following a script. On most forums, he spends more time and effort on the "the math isn't real" spiel. Most of the time, that's good enough--there are enough members on those forums who are willing to believe that the math can be refuted, so he has an audience. Here, however, that assertion got pretty much blown back in his face from the start. So he Switched To Plan B a little earlier than he normally does--he went for the Secret Video Poker Rules Conspiracy Implemented By the Star Chamber. I absolutely do not believe than Singer is an honestly deluded soul--I think he's a charlatan, and no more believes in the dross he's spouting than any of us do, or any reasonable person does. Note that his VP book (to broaden the term "book") still sells for $20 on amazon.com and at fine garage sales everywhere. He also gets some suckers to pay him for one-on-one consultations (presumably). So the nonsensical garbage he spouts is still profitable for him, and I think that giving him the consideration that he does not deserve merely serves to further his agenda, and fatten his wallet. And as you say, you can't do much about a deliberate falsehood other than to demonstrate why it's false--but you, and I, and the Wizard, and 400 years of science have already done that, many, many times over.

I realize that your inclination toward courtesy and respect is what is behind your urge to give Singer a "fair shake". Perhaps you haven't seen him weasel out of such offers as much as I have. Fair enough, as they said to Don Quixote :)

"He also gets some suckers to pay him for one-on-one consultations (presumably)."

He does? Any evidence of this?

Quote: thecesspit

"He also gets some suckers to pay him for one-on-one consultations (presumably)."

He does? Any evidence of this?

He's said repeatedly in his drivelings (website postings, forums, etc.) that he does. Sometimes he says that he consults, but doesn't charge anything, out of the goodness of his widdle heart. Other times, he says that he has to use his coin-operated plutonium-lined helmet to communicate with the Video Poker Beings from Arcturus VI--and the coins needed are Krugerrands.

It would be interesting to hear from someone (besides JerryLogan) who had actually forked over some dough to be "trained" by Singer, to find out what a person gets for his fee.

Quote: mkl654321

He's said repeatedly in his drivelings (website postings, forums, etc.) that he does.

Considering I've read a fair amount on his website, I have never seen that mentioned, and considering I know you've not read it in depth (having better things to do)...

Quote:

Sometimes he says that he consults, but doesn't charge anything, out of the goodness of his widdle heart. Other times, he says that he has to use his coin-operated plutonium-lined helmet to communicate with the Video Poker Beings from Arcturus VI--and the coins needed are Krugerrands.

Ahhh, I see you make joke for comic effect...

Quote:

It would be interesting to hear from someone (besides JerryLogan) who had actually forked over some dough to be "trained" by Singer, to find out what a person gets for his fee.

From Mr Singer whose emailed me, and says he's not coming back, he says "So you have the facts straight, I have never, ever charged anyone a cent for my training." So you'll need to back that one up with some source.

The only reason I question it is that its important to not attribute the motive you -think- Rob Singer has over what ever motive he may have. But if indeed he has charged, offered to charged or has given paid for tuition and there's a link to such info, from another board or wherever, I am all ears.

Quote: allenwalker

Jellyfish, perhaps? That son-of-a-gun seemed to double off at will, but kicked my ass enough otherwise that I realized that I'm not adept at backgammon or other games, such as live poker, where I have to evaluate board conditions. I see references from some APs that they started with backgammon before moving onto casino games, I wonder how backgammon acumen correlates to casino play.

It's a late 90s shareware program called "David's Backgammon." My brother got it back when we worked at the same office, and he liked it enough to pay for the registration. I've had it ever since.

I learned to play when I was 10 or so. My mom taught me. I played a lot with my brothers, sometimes with my cousins and sometimes with friends. Elsewhere I mentioned playing a lot when I visited Israel. I don't think I've played against a person in years. Maybe I should try to online.

Quote: thecesspit

From Mr Singer whose emailed me, and says he's not coming back, he says "So you have the facts straight, I have never, ever charged anyone a cent for my training." So you'll need to back that one up with some source.

The only reason I question it is that its important to not attribute the motive you -think- Rob Singer has over what ever motive he may have. But if indeed he has charged, offered to charged or has given paid for tuition and there's a link to such info, from another board or wherever, I am all ears.

Singer saying a thing is not true roughly quintuples the chance of its actually being true. But I do see your point. I do remember posts on various VP boards, by him and by others, that referred to him charging a "consulting fee" to those who wanted a more detailed explication of his "strategy" as mentioned in his book (in that book, he is very vague about that strategy). But rather than digging through website archives that may not even be available, I'm perfectly willing to offer a partial retraction of my statement, and say that it may very well be that Singer charges exactly what his training is actually worth: $0.

And if he says he's not coming back, he's lying through his teeth. He's coming back as his avatar, JerryLogan.

Mr. Singer has also emailed me, in spite of my prior suggestion that this forum (and not private email) was the proper venue for continuing this discussion. He confirmed that he will not be returning to the forum. As I will not be going back and forth with him via email, it seems unlikely that he will further engage or return to defend his propositions.