tableForOne
tableForOne
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Mission146
September 25th, 2023 at 9:40:20 AM permalink
Let's say you find a +EV machine at a small local casino. Multiplier promos make it worth as much as $120/hr to play at certain times. You are a regular at the casino and they know you well as a savvy gambler and high-volume VP player.

What would you do to get as much as possible from the machine to minimize risk of the casino reducing the paytable on this machine?

Thanks for any advice!
OnceDear
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September 25th, 2023 at 10:16:48 AM permalink
Quote: tableForOne

Let's say you find a +EV machine at a small local casino. Multiplier promos make it worth as much as $120/hr to play at certain times. You are a regular at the casino and they know you well as a savvy gambler and high-volume VP player.

What would you do to get as much as possible from the machine to minimize risk of the casino reducing the paytable on this machine?

Thanks for any advice!
link to original post

if hi variance and dependent on jackpots, then whack it to the max. It won't look too unusual. Low variance, then pace it a bit more
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
AxelWolf
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September 25th, 2023 at 12:10:41 PM permalink
Quote: tableForOne

Let's say you find a +EV machine at a small local casino. Multiplier promos make it worth as much as $120/hr to play at certain times. You are a regular at the casino and they know you well as a savvy gambler and high-volume VP player.

What would you do to get as much as possible from the machine to minimize risk of the casino reducing the paytable on this machine?

Thanks for any advice!
link to original post

I would factor in the possibility of other sharp players finding it and exploiting it to the max themselves.

Do you know the place to quickly take action on machines that go in the red?

What are your other options?

What percentage of that hourly comes from the machine versus the promotions and multipliers? Is it like an 8/5 bonus or a 9/6, or is the machine -EV off the top?

Are there other good machines to play during these promotion times that maybe aren't as good but they still have a decent hourly?

Who is it and why do they know you to be a savvy video poker player, are those people going to spot you on the machine and take note of that? How do you know they know that you're a Savvy player?

How much volume of square play does the machine get normally?

Is there a particular reason you are overly concerned that they'll change the pay table, i.e. is it something that you play regularly when there aren't promotions?

What denomination are we talking about?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
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FinsRuleSOOPOOMukkeMission146
September 25th, 2023 at 2:31:17 PM permalink
I have changed my position over the years and would now just pound the machine for as long as I can so no one else beats you to it.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Mission146
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September 26th, 2023 at 8:48:56 AM permalink
Quote: tableForOne

Let's say you find a +EV machine at a small local casino. Multiplier promos make it worth as much as $120/hr to play at certain times. You are a regular at the casino and they know you well as a savvy gambler and high-volume VP player.

What would you do to get as much as possible from the machine to minimize risk of the casino reducing the paytable on this machine?

Thanks for any advice!
link to original post



I wouldn't be shocked if the casino staff barely knows what the payback is or would ever bother to change it, but I could be wrong.

Once upon a time, after accounting for backend and other promos (drawing, earn x points games), with the multiplier days, I could play a 98.44%, 98.45% or 98.91% VP game, but with what I was getting back, the effective player edge ended up being 3-5% at any given time. The 98.91% became 100.91% on the points multiplier alone. The multiplier days actually changed (fewer days, weirder hours, lower multipliers---in that order) three different times before they actually changed the paytable on the machine.

Even without the multiplier days, back end still gave you no less than a 1% edge on a card you were using on an as-going basis...which is assigning a value of $0.00 to the room and food comps you'd get (which is the value I assign to those) and a much higher edge considering the backend on a clean card and just running off the free play until gone.

The multiplier days also applied to Bubble Craps for a bit, but it didn't take them too long to change that so it didn't earn points.

Still, those VP paytables stayed the same for probably ten years. It wasn't until post-COVID that they reduced them, I think, but it might have been before that.

ADDED: One nice thing was these units were multi-game, so also had Keno...which is what most people played. That probably disguised what I was doing a bit, but I agree with everyone else that you should just pound them while they're there to pound.
Last edited by: Mission146 on Sep 26, 2023
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
100xOdds
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September 26th, 2023 at 10:26:47 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I have changed my position over the years and would now just pound the machine for as long as I can so no one else beats you to it.
link to original post

I agree unless:

reminds me of a borked e-craps machine at Resorts World in queens,ny (next to racetrack).

The team hit it one day for $100k.
They could have milked it for months for alot more.

On the other hand, there's this guy who milked a VP machine bug.
He finally got caught.
Don't remember what happened after all the appeals.
Jail time? Return of$? Return of$ + penalties?
Or keeping the$?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
AxelWolf
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September 26th, 2023 at 10:37:44 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: DRich



On the other hand, there's this guy who milked a VP machine bug.
He finally got caught.

link to original post

Rob Singer never got caught. Just ask him.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
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Mission146
September 26th, 2023 at 10:42:21 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds



The team hit it one day for $100k.
They could have milked it for months for alot more.



The problem is if someone else finds it and hits it then you lose the play. In a vacuum I would agree with you.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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