100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
March 19th, 2022 at 9:40:10 AM permalink
Won \$1000 freeplay. Can be used in vp.

1) 9/6 ddb (99%) is only found at \$5 denom, so \$25/spin. Only 40 spins and Var = 45.
2) stp 7/5 bp (98.25%) is found at \$1 denom, so \$6/spin. 167 spins and vs = 33.

Return = 98.5%, var = 20, and only 40 spins.

I just want to convert to cash and leave.

Which would you play?
Why?
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Mar 19, 2022
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DRich
• Posts: 11794
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
March 19th, 2022 at 11:01:33 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Won \$1000 freeplay. Can be used in vp.

1) 9/6 ddb (99%) is only found at \$5 denom, so \$25/spin. Only 40 spins and Var = 45.
2) stp 7/5 bp (98.25%) is found at \$1 denom, so \$6/spin. 167 spins and vs = 33.

3) There's also \$5 neutered 8/5 BP where all quads pays 30 instead.
Return = 98.5%, var = 20, and only 40 spins.

I just want to convert to cash and leave.

Which would you play?
Why?

If the goal is to walk away with the most cash I would play the 8/5 Bonus. That getting 2/1 on two pair is very beneficial.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ALG
• Posts: 28
Joined: Feb 8, 2021
March 19th, 2022 at 4:11:59 PM permalink
I'd play the \$1 STP for more spins to try and get closer to expected return. 40 spins isn't that many. Hit a bad stretch that \$1000 could easily be down to \$700 or \$800.
billryan

• Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
March 19th, 2022 at 4:26:29 PM permalink
How is the video blackjack? A push can be a win when using free play.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
March 19th, 2022 at 4:38:53 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

I just want to convert to cash and leave.

Which would you play?
Why?

8/5 BP seems like a good option. It would take you longer to find a better option than to just run it through and move on.

I would probably play deuces after wandering around being indecisive for two hours, unless I found a Turkey Shoot machine. I have an unhealthy fondness for Turkey Shoot.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AlanMendelson
• Posts: 5937
Joined: Oct 5, 2011
March 19th, 2022 at 9:35:30 PM permalink
Are there any other options?

While 25-cent 7/5 Bonus isn't a crowd favorite, the additional hands played will ease up the variance and give you more chances at a royal.

You'd have 800 hands to play.
Riverjordan
• Posts: 16
Joined: Mar 17, 2022
March 20th, 2022 at 5:14:39 AM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

Are there any other options?

While 25-cent 7/5 Bonus isn't a crowd favorite, the additional hands played will ease up the variance and give you more chances at a royal.

You'd have 800 hands to play.

This one seems the best choice to me. I'd want to maximize my spins in this situation.
Get paid for what you love to do.
teddys
• Posts: 5528
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
March 20th, 2022 at 9:48:43 AM permalink
I would play the 7/5 BP at \$5 a spin. Forget the STP in this case -- you don't need the variance.

If you want to take a shot play 9/6 DDB at \$5 one coin per spin. Don't go for royal draws.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
March 20th, 2022 at 4:00:30 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

8/5 BP seems like a good option. It would take you longer to find a better option than to just run it through and move on.

I would probably play deuces after wandering around being indecisive for two hours, unless I found a Turkey Shoot machine. I have an unhealthy fondness for Turkey Shoot.

ok, ran it through \$5 neutered 8/5 bp. (\$25/spin)
Got\$1000.
83% return. :(

Full house first hand! Thought I was going to have a good run.
Then 2pair was next best hand. No trips in the 40 hands :(

mod edit: formatting
Last edited by: unnamed administrator on Mar 20, 2022
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
March 20th, 2022 at 6:54:34 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

ok, ran it through \$5 neutered 8/5 bp. (\$25/spin)
Got\$1000.
83% return. :(

Full house first hand! Thought I was going to have a good run.
Then 2pair was next best hand. No trips in the 40 hands :(

Ouch. Here's wishing for better variance next time.
May the cards fall in your favor.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
March 22nd, 2022 at 7:07:27 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

I would play the 7/5 BP at \$5 a spin. Forget the STP in this case -- you don't need the variance.

If you want to take a shot, play 9/6 DDB at \$5 one coin per spin. Don't go for royal draws.

I only had the regular 9/6 DDB strategy on me.
With 1 credit/spin, I would lose out ~1.5% for the Royal and whatever the -EV is for going for Royal draws.

so 1 coin \$5 9/6 ddb (97.5% at most) would be worse than 5coin \$1 7/5 DB (98%) and 6coin \$1 stp 7/5 db (98.25%).

such a slippery slope:
- 99% (9/6 ddb) but high variance and low amount of spins
- 98.5% (8/5 neutered BP) low variance but still low amount of spins. 0.5% less return worth the lower variance?
- 98.25% (stp 7/5 bp) somewhat high variance, more spins but lower return %
- 98% (7/5 BP) low variance, alot of spins, but even lower return %
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
teddys
• Posts: 5528
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
Thanked by
March 24th, 2022 at 3:16:49 PM permalink
You're overthinking it. A couple basis points doesn't matter in this short term freeplay situation. It's all about the variance. On a \$1000 bank it will only cost you \$5-\$10, who cares?
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Vegasrider
• Posts: 963
Joined: Dec 23, 2017
March 24th, 2022 at 10:16:11 PM permalink
Play Bubble Craps
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
March 25th, 2022 at 5:26:18 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

You're overthinking it. A couple basis points doesn't matter in this short term freeplay situation. It's all about the variance. On a \$1000 bank it will only cost you \$5-\$10, who cares?

ugg.. thx. makes sense.

What would you do if you were going to put in \$50k coin-in? (ie: to make the next player card tier level)
That's 2000 spins at \$25/spin.

Advantage of neutered \$5 8/5 bp is no w2-G unless I hit a straight flush or higher.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
teddys
• Posts: 5528
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
March 25th, 2022 at 11:33:00 AM permalink
Quote: Vegasrider

Play Bubble Craps

A lot of casinos won't take FP on bubble craps. But I agree, it is a good one. VBJ is also good.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
billryan

• Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
March 25th, 2022 at 12:02:30 PM permalink
Video BJ is great for using free play as when betting \$5 a push takes \$5 in free play and gives back \$5 in cashable credits. It makes up for BJ paying even money.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
March 25th, 2022 at 1:37:01 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Video BJ is great for using free play as when betting \$5 a push takes \$5 in free play and gives back \$5 in cashable credits. It makes up for BJ paying even money.

Yes, but that doesn't make up for some freeplay systems not funding a double down bet with restricted credits.
May the cards fall in your favor.
camapl
• Posts: 420
Joined: Jun 22, 2010
April 9th, 2022 at 3:34:00 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

ok, ran it through \$5 neutered 8/5 bp. (\$25/spin)
Got\$1000.
83% return. :(

Full house first hand! Thought I was going to have a good run.
Then 2pair was next best hand. No trips in the 40 hands :(

mod edit: formatting

100xOdds, congrats on the \$1000 FP! I assume this is not your norm, as you were asking how to play it…

Wondering how you calculated 83% return. If you played \$1000 in free play and got \$1000, isn’t that 100%? Or did you have to seed the free play?
Expectation is the root of all heartache.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 9th, 2022 at 7:09:58 PM permalink
Quote: camapl

Quote: 100xOdds

ok, ran it through \$5 neutered 8/5 bp. (\$25/spin)
Got\$1000.
83% return. :(

Full house first hand! Thought I was going to have a good run.
Then 2pair was next best hand. No trips in the 40 hands :(

mod edit: formatting

100xOdds, congrats on the \$1000 FP! I assume this is not your norm, as you were asking how to play it…

Wondering how you calculated 83% return. If you played \$1000 in free play and got \$1000, isn’t that 100%? Or did you have to seed the free play?

whoops.. it was \$1200 fp. used \$200 on AP slots before i created this thread. Thus why I said I had \$1000 freeplay. (That \$200 freeplay only turned into \$200 cash.)

After putting the \$1000 freeplay through VP, I had \$1000 combined.
So i didnt have 83% return on vp. It was 83% combined.

thus 1000- \$200 = \$800.
800/1000 = 80% return on the VP :(
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Sandybestdog
• Posts: 333
Joined: Feb 3, 2015
April 9th, 2022 at 8:44:52 PM permalink
The IGT blackjack machines are class 2 games that return about 92%. They’re awful but still better than video poker.
billryan

• Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 10th, 2022 at 5:33:32 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

The IGT blackjack machines are class 2 games that return about 92%. They’re awful but still better than video poker.

How does the machine handle a push when using free play?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 10th, 2022 at 8:05:33 AM permalink
Quote: Sandybestdog

The IGT blackjack machines are class 2 games that return about 92%. They’re awful but still better than video poker.

yeah, variance in BJ is like 1.3.
my 98.5% neutered 8/5 BP has var=20.

with bj, you're going to end up close to the 92% return in 40 hands.
with vp, it's +/- 20% to the 98.5% in 40hands, apparently.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
billryan

• Posts: 16282
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
April 10th, 2022 at 9:08:11 AM permalink
If you sit down at a BJ table with 20 red chips and push twenty straight hands, you end up with 20 red chips.
If you sit down at a video BJ machine with 20 non-cashable credits and push twenty times, you wind up with 20 credits you can cash out.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 10th, 2022 at 9:46:01 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

If you sit down at a BJ table with 20 red chips and push twenty straight hands, you end up with 20 red chips.
If you sit down at a video BJ machine with 20 non-cashable credits and push twenty times, you wind up with 20 credits you can cash out.

in vp, that's the same as ending with a high pair (JJ+). pays the same as your bet
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 24th, 2022 at 5:32:31 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Won \$1000 freeplay. Can be used in vp.

1) 9/6 ddb (99%) is only found at \$5 denom, so \$25/spin. Only 40 spins and Var = 45.
2) stp 7/5 bp (98.25%) is found at \$1 denom, so \$6/spin. 167 spins and vs = 33.

Return = 98.5%, var = 20, and only 40 spins.

I just want to convert to cash and leave.

Which would you play?
Why?

Here we go again. (oh, the stp is triple play.)

same choices except this time i have to play through \$15k coin-in to get bonus credits.
600 hands at \$25/hand or 833 spins at \$18/spin (2500 hands)?

i chose the \$1 triple play 7/5 stp.
i figured 4x more hands would lower the variance to close to that of 8/5 bp. (Am i right?)

was down \$1300 at one point. there was a string of not hitting any hands and a lot of hands going by without a multiplier.
but when i got a multiplier, i would miss on all lines. and it happened on 4 multipliers in a row! :(
this was on 2 different machines.

then in the final \$500 coin-in got a quad with 3x multiplier so only down -\$1000.
\$1000/15k = 93% return
Last edited by: 100xOdds on Apr 24, 2022
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 15th, 2023 at 7:36:56 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Won \$1000 freeplay. Can be used in vp.

1) 9/6 ddb (99%) is only found at \$5 denom, so \$25/spin. Only 40 spins and Var = 45.
2) stp 7/5 bp (98.25%) is found at \$1 denom, so \$6/spin. 167 spins and vs = 33.

Return = 98.5%, var = 20, and only 40 spins.

I just want to convert to cash and leave.

Which would you play?
Why?

So, apparently, if i just wanted to turn the freeplay into cash then video blackjack was the way to go:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/38139-use-freeplay-on-video-bj/
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
April 15th, 2023 at 7:57:52 AM permalink
Not all VBJ is created equal, and many rules screens seem specially crafted to confuse things. ("5 for 2" is good, or at least hopeful.)

Also check how the rules change at different denominations. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same machine switch from 6 deck even money to single deck 5 for 2 between quarters and \$5.
May the cards fall in your favor.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 15th, 2023 at 11:33:51 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Not all VBJ is created equal, and many rules screens seem specially crafted to confuse things. ("5 for 2" is good, or at least hopeful.)

Also check how the rules change at different denominations. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same machine switch from 6 deck even money to single deck 5 for 2 between quarters and \$5.

5for2 means 3 to 2, right?

even if 6deck even money, it's the best game to turn \$1k freeplay into cash?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
AxelWolf
• Posts: 22290
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
April 15th, 2023 at 12:08:58 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Dieter

Not all VBJ is created equal, and many rules screens seem specially crafted to confuse things. ("5 for 2" is good, or at least hopeful.)

Also check how the rules change at different denominations. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same machine switch from 6 deck even money to single deck 5 for 2 between quarters and \$5.

5for2 means 3 to 2, right?

even if 6deck even money, it's the best game to turn \$1k freeplay into cash?

Define "best game"
Lowest variance.
best value.
fastest.

When it comes down to it, if you are looking to convert the free play to cash closest possible to face value, then low denominations are your friends. Or if they allow you to hedge on roulette, that's probably the best way.

My question for you is, what do you need the money for at this moment? Are you going to stop gambling after this? If not, just play the free play on whatever it is you normally play on, or find some good vulture machines.

Unless you can't play the free play on whatever you want to play, converting free play to cash and then using that cash to play other things is kinda senseless.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
April 15th, 2023 at 12:31:38 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

My question for you is, what do you need the money for at this moment? Are you going to stop gambling after this? If not, just play the free play on whatever it is you normally play on, or find some good vulture machines.

Unless you can't play the free play on whatever you want to play, converting free play to cash and then using that cash to play other things is kinda senseless.

When i created this thread, i won the freeplay after the vulture opportunities have been had.
i did another loop and only found \$200 coin-in of plays.
and wasn't planning on coming back to the casino again before the freeplay expired.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
April 15th, 2023 at 2:35:10 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Dieter

Not all VBJ is created equal, and many rules screens seem specially crafted to confuse things. ("5 for 2" is good, or at least hopeful.)

Also check how the rules change at different denominations. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same machine switch from 6 deck even money to single deck 5 for 2 between quarters and \$5.

5for2 means 3 to 2, right?

even if 6deck even money, it's the best game to turn \$1k freeplay into cash?

Like AxelWolf said, "define best".
VBJ is usually fast and easy.
VBJ often has weird quirks, but not always. If those quirks will annoy you, don't do it.
If it's an even money game, there are probably better options (unless there are confounding factors).

\$1/coin single line 'slowish' VP should only take about 24 minutes to play it off. Multiline, probably faster. I personally am OK getting a bit under \$1/second for my time, but I understand if you've got someplace to be.

Lower denom, the more rounds, the closer the chop likely gets to theoretical.
Higher denom, it goes faster, but AV is more likely to be farther off from EV.

\$1/coin x10 VBJ can probably convert it in under 5 minutes, but if the quirks will tick you off, it's a bad choice.

Yes, 5 for 2 works out as 3 to 2, but machines often express it as "for" not "to".

If it's a "for 2" pay, or the game offers surrender (1 for 2), bet a multiple of 2 coins. (Breakage goes to the house as hold.)

As for roulette... the last few e-roulette systems I've seen don't allow for a single player at a single terminal to cover every number, nor do they accept freeplay.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mental
• Posts: 1339
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
April 16th, 2023 at 9:15:22 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

As for roulette... the last few e-roulette systems I've seen don't allow for a single player at a single terminal to cover every number, nor do they accept freeplay.

I had some free play that I could only play through on roulette today. This restriction was in the rules of the promotion. I was able put a \$100 wager two dozens at a time. The game refused to accept two bets on R/B or O/E or three dozens. I did not see if I could reduce my variance further by placing individual bets on more numbers.

Nobody mentioned baccarat, but I think most casinos that have video baccarat stations also have video-BJ with better RTP. It is hard to beat E-craps if it is available.

In my experience, very few of these e-games accept free slot lay.
This forum is more enjoyable after I learned how to use the 'Block this user' button.
Dieter
• Posts: 5583
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
April 16th, 2023 at 10:40:52 AM permalink
(snip!)

Quote: Mental

In my experience, very few of these e-games accept free slot lay.

Indeed. VBJ is different from e-BJ.
I haven't seen V-Baccarat (which I think should probably be called VPB, if it exists, but I can't think of any Baccarat player wanting to play a VPB game), but that is different from e-baccarat.
I seem to recall interblock e-roulette installs from 10 years back would allow O/E, R/B, or all the dozens, but they were neutered to not take freeplay.
Haven't seen V-roulette in years, but it's got to look almost exactly like the FOBT game.
May the cards fall in your favor.
100xOdds
• Posts: 4330
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
March 26th, 2024 at 9:04:56 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

I would play the 7/5 BP at \$5 a spin. Forget the STP in this case -- you don't need the variance.