cmlotito
cmlotito
Joined: Jun 3, 2013
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December 10th, 2021 at 3:47:11 AM permalink
There seems to be a major difference in using Tom Skis strategy master program vs Wizard's strategy maker for JoB Multi Strike.

I followed the recommendation of adding 6 to each pay out for level one on both programs. There is a major difference for 4 card flushes. Tom Ski's Video Poker Strategy Master lumps all 4 card flushes together. The Wizards strategy maker on the website splits up 4 card flushes. There are a few other differences on other levels but the 4 card flushes on all levels seem to be the biggest discrepancy.

I think Wizards' strategy of splitting up flushes makes more sense depending on number of high cards involved vs lumping them all together on Tom Ski's strategy master.

Thoughts?
Wizard's strategy maker https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-7-d-8-d-9-d-10-d-12-d-15-d-31-d-56-d-806/
Tom Ski's Strategy https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/multi-strike/appendix/2/
Last edited by: cmlotito on Dec 10, 2021
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 10th, 2021 at 6:39:18 PM permalink
Quote: cmlotito

There seems to be a major difference in using Tom Skis strategy master program vs Wizard's strategy maker for JoB Multi Strike.

I followed the recommendation of adding 6 to each pay out for level one on both programs. There is a major difference for 4 card flushes. Tom Ski's Video Poker Strategy Master lumps all 4 card flushes together. The Wizards strategy maker on the website splits up 4 card flushes. There are a few other differences on other levels but the 4 card flushes on all levels seem to be the biggest discrepancy.

I think Wizards' strategy of splitting up flushes makes more sense depending on number of high cards involved vs lumping them all together on Tom Ski's strategy master.

Thoughts?
Wizard's strategy maker https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-7-d-8-d-9-d-10-d-12-d-15-d-31-d-56-d-806/
Tom Ski's Strategy https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/multi-strike/appendix/2/
link to original post

Welcome back!

You at Borgata?
How's Noir status treating you this year?
Think MGM will let you keep it for next year?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
cmlotito
cmlotito
Joined: Jun 3, 2013
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December 11th, 2021 at 3:47:32 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: cmlotito

There seems to be a major difference in using Tom Skis strategy master program vs Wizard's strategy maker for JoB Multi Strike.

I followed the recommendation of adding 6 to each pay out for level one on both programs. There is a major difference for 4 card flushes. Tom Ski's Video Poker Strategy Master lumps all 4 card flushes together. The Wizards strategy maker on the website splits up 4 card flushes. There are a few other differences on other levels but the 4 card flushes on all levels seem to be the biggest discrepancy.

I think Wizards' strategy of splitting up flushes makes more sense depending on number of high cards involved vs lumping them all together on Tom Ski's strategy master.

Thoughts?
Wizard's strategy maker https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/a-1-b-74-c-1-d-0-d-7-d-8-d-9-d-10-d-12-d-15-d-31-d-56-d-806/
Tom Ski's Strategy https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/multi-strike/appendix/2/
link to original post

Welcome back!

You at Borgata?
How's Noir status treating you this year?
Think MGM will let you keep it for next year?
link to original post



National Harbor is basically dead to me. No decent games left. (I don't consider plain 9/6 DDB decent) Last thing I was playing was 9/5 DSTP JoB 98.95%. Continued my streak of non multiplied royals and called an end to it a couple months ago.

Noir at Borgata is head and shoulders above National Harbor. Many more places and shops to use comps at. Borgata actually has 24 hour places to eat vs National Harbor. Also has a wider variety of video poker to play. 9/6 JoB Multi Strike to play and 9/5 SDB to use free play on.

Comps and slot dollars earned (what they call free play) for the one trip I had in October in one gaming day was:


I played just $2 JoB Multi Strike the entire trip. This was all contained in one gaming day 6am to 5:59am.

I used the Wizards strategy generated from his strategy maker program with the major difference of 4 card flushes being split up vs Tom Ski's program that lumps them all together. Can anyone confirm which way is correct?

Wizard links to Tom Ski's program strategy yet contradicts it with his own strategy maker. Which is correct???
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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December 11th, 2021 at 9:57:10 AM permalink
Quote: cmlotito

There seems to be a major difference in using Tom Skis strategy master program vs Wizard's strategy maker for JoB Multi Strike.

I followed the recommendation of adding 6 to each pay out for level one on both programs. There is a major difference for 4 card flushes. Tom Ski's Video Poker Strategy Master lumps all 4 card flushes together. The Wizards strategy maker on the website splits up 4 card flushes. There are a few other differences on other levels but the 4 card flushes on all levels seem to be the biggest discrepancy.

I think Wizards' strategy of splitting up flushes makes more sense depending on number of high cards involved vs lumping them all together on Tom Ski's strategy master.

Thoughts?


I use 5.23 as the addition instead of 6, but I do think the Wizard is correct, at least with holding onto a high card if it is the unsuited card with 4/flush but not if it is part of the 4/flush itself.

"Where does 5.23 come from?"
First, play standard 9/6 JoB with payouts multipled by 8; the ER is 7.963512
For Level 3 without a free ride, play standard 9/6 with payouts multiplied by 4 and then 7.96 added to each one; the ER is 6.15234.
Multiply this by 93.6% (the probability of not getting a free ride on Level 3), add 6.4% x (7.96 + the standard ER when the payouts are multiplied by 4), and you get a true Level 3 ER of 6.523087.
For Level 3 without a free ride, play standard 9/6 with payouts multiplied by 4 and then 6.52 added to each one; the ER is 4.991379. Adding the "free ride ER" gets a true Level 2 ER of 5.23796.
GaryJKoehler
GaryJKoehler
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Thanks for this post from:
Dieter
December 12th, 2021 at 4:17:56 AM permalink
For the game 9-6 Jacks with Free Rides of 0.077, 0.070 and 0.064 giving an EV of 99.79% and variance of 20.90, using exact expected values (not a +6 approximation), here are some cases:

Level 1:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 2.2858.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 2.5284.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the Jack. EV = 2.4756.

Level 2:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 3.8129.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 3.9192.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

Level 3:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 6.1207.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

It looks like 4-Flush holds depend on the Level and the 5th card.
cmlotito
cmlotito
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December 12th, 2021 at 7:28:24 AM permalink
Quote: GaryJKoehler

For the game 9-6 Jacks with Free Rides of 0.077, 0.070 and 0.064 giving an EV of 99.79% and variance of 20.90, using exact expected values (not a +6 approximation), here are some cases:

Level 1:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 2.2858.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 2.5284.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the Jack. EV = 2.4756.

Level 2:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 3.8129.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 3.9192.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

Level 3:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 6.1207.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

It looks like 4-Flush holds depend on the Level and the 5th card.
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Looks like you agree with Wizard's strategy maker over Tom Ski's program.
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 12th, 2021 at 8:38:28 AM permalink
Quote: GaryJKoehler

For the game 9-6 Jacks with Free Rides of 0.077, 0.070 and 0.064 giving an EV of 99.79% and variance of 20.90, using exact expected values (not a +6 approximation), here are some cases:

Level 1:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 2.2858.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 2.5284.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the Jack. EV = 2.4756.

Level 2:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 3.8129.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the Pair of 10s. EV = 3.9192.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

Level 3:
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 6 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush, EV = 6.1207.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a 10 of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.
3-5-7-10 of Clubs with a Jack of Hearts: Hold the 4-Flush.

It looks like 4-Flush holds depend on the Level and the 5th card.
link to original post


how did you get var = 20.9?
Wiz has this for var:
lvl 1 = 19.9, lvl 2 = 40.8, lvl 3 = 80.6, lvl 4 = 167.2
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 12th, 2021 at 8:46:26 AM permalink
Quote: cmlotito



I played just $2 JoB Multi Strike the entire trip. This was all contained in one gaming day 6am to 5:59am.

1.7M tier credits?
Congrats on staying Noir!

and yeah, mgm national harbor sucks for vp (and slots)!
but i think they still have $5 9/7 db? (99.1%)
it's $35 coin-in per tier credit for that game.

anyway, at Borgata, what's the return on Multi-strike deuces wild?
And do you know how much coin-in for 1 tier credit at Borgata for Multi-strike?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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December 12th, 2021 at 9:19:38 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

"Where does 5.23 come from?"
First, play standard 9/6 JoB with payouts multipled by 8; the ER is 7.963512
For Level 3 without a free ride, play standard 9/6 with payouts multiplied by 4 and then 7.96 added to each one; the ER is 6.15234.
Multiply this by 93.6% (the probability of not getting a free ride on Level 3), add 6.4% x (7.96 + the standard ER when the payouts are multiplied by 4), and you get a true Level 3 ER of 6.523087.
For Level 3 without a free ride, play standard 9/6 with payouts multiplied by 4 and then 6.52 added to each one; the ER is 4.991379. Adding the "free ride ER" gets a true Level 2 ER of 5.23796.
link to original post


Hmmm...when I enter the numbers this morning, I get this:

Level 4 ER: 7.963512 (8 x 99.5439%)
Level 3 without Free Play ER: 7.634618
Level 3 overall ER: 7.910500
Level 2 without Free Play ER (using 7.91 as the Level 3 ER): 5.637264
Level 2 overall ER: 5.935717
Level 1 without Free Play ER (using 5.93 as the Level 2 ER): 3.743208
Level 1 ER: 3.98824 (99.706%)

The strategy differences for different 4/flush values is the same.
cmlotito
cmlotito
Joined: Jun 3, 2013
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Thanks for this post from:
100xOdds
December 12th, 2021 at 10:19:46 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds



anyway, at Borgata, what's the return on Multi-strike deuces wild?
And do you know how much coin-in for 1 tier credit at Borgata for Multi-strike?
link to original post



I may be going next weekend if I can get Sunday off from work. I was going to tag along with a guy I know from work and a friend of his. If I don't have to drive that is a huge win in my book. I won't be going all out at $2 level since the last time I went I got my ass handed to me. Have gone 5 times to Borgata this year. 4 wins and 1 loss. But the loss was most of what I won the previous 4 trips combined. Oh well. Still ahead for the year there. I'll stick to 50 cent with an occasional trip into the dollar range.

I have a friend who says he will only play dueces wild games next year so I have to scout out all the versions they have of it there. Multi Strike, Ultimate X, DSTP, Royal Hunt is all I can currently think of. It's 2022 next year so you can guess why he wants to do that.

My 1 trip in October generated these December offers:
I will be able to double dip the $600 offer in one trip. It cuts off at 6am then next offer kicks in at noon. Plus I earned $601 in bounce back slot dollars last trip. So that's $1801 in free play I get just for tagging along. Not too shabby.

I'll see if I can figure out coin in for 1 tier credit on Multi Strike and post it.

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