What's your favorite Video Poker variant?

I've been playing Video Poker for a good 6 months now and finally hit my first natural Royal Flush yesterday($1 denomination machine in the high limit room, $2 bet for a $500 payout at the local Native American Casino). I believe I was playing Double Double Bonus at the time.

I seem to jump between Jacks or Better, Deuce's Wild and Double Double Bonus lately. I try to play in the high limit room where the pay tables are the best in the casino(9/5 Jacks or Better) and player card points accrue at 1 point for $1 play.

What I'm trying to figure out is, which variant is the best to play in terms of volatility? The pay tables for each vary by 0.5 to 1% for each game but there seems to be higher volatility with certain games.

MKL seems to play primarily Deuce's Wild. JL talks about playing DDB. Why?? Is it the pay table, the lower volatility, or both? Or am I missing the reason altogether?

I play Double Double Bonus because I like the higher volatility. With Jacks or Better and Deuces Wild you get winning hands much more often but they don't pay much. With DDB if you get four of a kind you are almost certainly a winner.

At my local casino, they have a $1 DDB progressive with a 9/6 pay table, .9898 EV. I play it when the progressive gets to about $6,000, and the EV approaches 100%. Of course it's only positive EV if you hit the royal flush, which I haven't. My wife has had much better luck; she's hit the royal flush 3 times this year, the latest one for $6,600.

Quote: ten2win

I've been playing Video Poker for a good 6 months now and finally hit my first natural Royal Flush yesterday($1 denomination machine in the high limit room, $2 bet for a $500 payout at the local Native American Casino). I believe I was playing Double Double Bonus at the time.
I seem to jump between Jacks or Better, Deuce's Wild and Double Double Bonus lately. I try to play in the high limit room where the pay tables are the best in the casino(9/5 Jacks or Better) and player card points accrue at 1 point for $1 play.
What I'm trying to figure out is, which variant is the best to play in terms of volatility? The pay tables for each vary by 0.5 to 1% for each game but there seems to be higher volatility with certain games.
MKL seems to play primarily Deuce's Wild. JL talks about playing DDB. Why?? Is it the pay table, the lower volatility, or both? Or am I missing the reason altogether?

First of all, don't even think about playing VP unless you're going to play maximum coin. If you had hit that royal on a .25 machine playing max coin, you would have gotten paid $1,000--a bigger jackpot for a smaller bet! If you MUST play short coin, play only one coin, as playing 2,3, or 4 coins increases your bet without giving you anything in return. But in the final analysis, you NEED that 800-1 payout for a five coin bet to give yourself a fighting chance.

Volatility is a measure of how widely scattered your results will be over the long haul. Double Double Bonus is a highly volatile game, because its payouts are concentrated at the "top" of the paytable--the rarest hands. You also only get paid even money on two pair, which is a severe drain while you're waiting for the big hands to show up. Jacks or Better is a low volatility game, because of the frequent small payouts, and the lesser value of big hands. The net effect is that both your wins and your losses will be bigger playing DDB, and smaller playing JOB.

So the answer to your question depends on what you want. If you want to go for the big wins, play DDB; you will get some big wins, and frequent bloody losses. If you want to play for a while without extreme results, play JOB. Deuces Wild falls somewhere between these two extremes, but how decent the game is depends heavily on the paytable (as it does for DDB and JOB).

The reason why I play Deuces Wild is that the best overall payback is found in those games. You can still find .25 FPDW at many places in Vegas, and that game returns 100.76% with best play. NSUD, or Not-So-Ugly-Ducks, is a 99.73% game that is the best available in many casinos. By contrast, 9/6 DDB only returns 98.9%.
(Though the game is available in Vegas as a 10/6 version, which returns 100%.) The difference between playing .25 FPDW and .25 9/6 DDB is the difference between making $7/hr and losing $10/hr.

Now, some folks will argue that in neither game will you necessarily achieve the theoretical payout. This is true, but your results will AVERAGE around that amount. So a lucky session at DDB might mean you break even; at FPDW, the same degree of luck would put you substantially ahead. Conversely, a bad session at DDB can slaughter you; a similarly bad session at FPDW would give you a moderate loss.

DDB is the most popular game in casinos for the same reason that JL plays it--it offers the thrill of the big potential payout. But you pay a pretty heavy price for that thrill--the over 1% house advantage. I play the 10/6 version on occasion, because that way, I get the thrill without the attendant cost.

I like to play Bonus Poker (8/5 if i can get it). JoB will do. Anything that pays 1 coin for two pair I hate to play, not least as the strategy is different enough for me to make too many errors. I've never learnt the strategy for Deuces Wild. Probably won't either while I can find full pay Jacks or Bonus Poker.

Short pay machines normally mean I'll pass, pay for my beer and watch the TV instead, or go for a wander around to play $20 through some sort of HighDef slot machine. Yeah it pays of much less, but some of them are pretty. Pretty Mindless too.

Agree, agree, agree with mkl about always playing max coin. You are just cheating yourself if you don't. If you can't afford max coin on the dollar machines, drop down to quarters. Even if the paytable is less generous. That's the best advice I can give to a frequent player; it's even more important than finding the best paytables.

My favorite game is Deuce's Wild. Just the right amount of good payback and enough volatility to make it interesting. I can't get enough of it. The full-pay version is just gravy that I play when I go to Vegas. My second favorite is Jacks or Better. It is boring but is good for using freeplay or trying to get enough points for a promotion of some sort. I will play 8/5 Bonus Poker when it is the best game available in the casino.

None of super bazunga quintuple mega multi bonus games really appeal to me.

Oh yeah, I used to absolutely love full-pay pick 'em poker but you can't find that anywhere anymore.

Most of the time I play either JoB or Bonus Poker. I'll dabble with Deuces Wild once in a blue moon, but I always seem to get the wrong end of the variance table. Since I'm not playing more than an hour or two a day, I'll sometimes play all 3 on the same machine if the mood strikes me.

-B

ten2win, I'll give it to you in easy-to-understand, non-essay format since I'll be clear from the start.

I like DDBP and any of it's variants, like TDBP, DBP, SDDBP, etc. Jacks or Better is a very boring game, and deuces wild was invented to take player's money in ANY pay table version. When I hit four Aces (or any other quad really) I want it to pay something. If you're happy with piss-ant type wins and don't really enjoy the gamble, stick with the low volatility games. But if you want quads to mean something, go with a DDBP type game.

Suppose you just wanted to build up "comps" and "points" for the players club? would you recommend jacks or better because you are likely to get longer play and more play for your money? In other words, what you lose from the grind and the small wins, you might make up from the comps and points and whatever "rewards" they might bring?

Quote: bobthomas

Suppose you just wanted to build up "comps" and "points" for the players club? would you recommend jacks or better because you are likely to get longer play and more play for your money? In other words, what you lose from the grind and the small wins, you might make up from the comps and points and whatever "rewards" they might bring?

A JOB-based game will make your money last longer than most others, because the variance is low. A DDB-based game (essentially, any 4-of-a-kind-based bonusing game) will extinguish you quite quickly if you don't hit a fair amount of quads. The difference is primarily in the payout for two pair. 9/6 JOB pays 2 to 1; 9/6 DDB pays even money. Two pair is 12% of your payout; forfeiting half of that means that you had BETTER hit lots of quads to make up for it.

DDB is available in 10/6 versions in Vegas. That game pays 10 for a full house, not 9, with all other payouts identical to 9/6 DDB. That game is better than 9/6 JOB by almost the exact amount that 9/6 JOB is better than 9/6 DDB, so if you want the thrill of going for the quads, that is the game you should play.

Fullpay Deuces Wild is a far better game to play than any of the above examples; it returns 100.76%. And the four deuces jackpot of 1000 coins is very close to the average four Aces jackpot of DDB (1100 coins average).

Quote: bobthomas

Suppose you just wanted to build up "comps" and "points" for the players club? would you recommend jacks or better because you are likely to get longer play and more play for your money? In other words, what you lose from the grind and the small wins, you might make up from the comps and points and whatever "rewards" they might bring?

I realize I didn't answer your question directly. Yes, JOB is the most useful game for the purpose of longevity. It is also the game you should choose if you have a certain amount of free play and simply want to recover as much of that value in actual money as possible. It would also be the best game if you want to earn X amount of points, to qualify for a slot club tier level, to earn a promotional gift or free play, etc. and don't want to get stomped in the process.

The base 9/6 JOB game pays 99.54%. If you were to obtain a situation where you would be getting 0.5% or better comps or cashback, you would be playing a breakeven game or better. An example would be a casino that normally pays 0.1% comps/cashback (a pretty common situation), but they are having a promotion where you get 5X points for a day (or some other period of time). This would be the ideal situation for building up points, because you are playing a low-volatility, break-even game.

Another thing to mention is that JOB has a very easy strategy. Games like DB, DDB, or DW have much more difficult strategies, and those games will flatten you if you don't learn those strategies. In contrast, JOB can be learned so easily because it doesn't have very many counterintuitive plays at all, and even then, mistakes don't cost very much.
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If you are going to be a habitual player, I suggest you learn two things: how to find the best paytables, and the strategies for the few available 100%+ games.

Quote: bobthomas

Suppose you just wanted to build up "comps" and "points" for the players club? would you recommend jacks or better because you are likely to get longer play and more play for your money? In other words, what you lose from the grind and the small wins, you might make up from the comps and points and whatever "rewards" they might bring?

Anyone who would answer that question in the positive really doesn't know what's going on in video poker.

No one should EVER play for points and comps. To do so plays right into the hands of the casinos. Why do you think they have 9/6 Jacks anyway? Think about it. And that 100.76% number for the full pay version of deuces wild means nothing to someone who zips into town for a few days. No one plays it perfectly and besides, it's all built around a theory and nothing that you can actually attain.

Quote: JerryLogan

Anyone who would answer that question in the positive really doesn't know what's going on in video poker.

No one should EVER play for points and comps. To do so plays right into the hands of the casinos. Why do you think they have 9/6 Jacks anyway? Think about it. And that 100.76% number for the full pay version of deuces wild means nothing to someone who zips into town for a few days. No one plays it perfectly and besides, it's all built around a theory and nothing that you can actually attain.

We all know that Jerry thinks mathematics is a "theory". Since the house edge is simple mathematics, we must therefore conclude that the casino only "theoretically" wins. And all those big hotels they built from the profits garnered by the house edge only exist in theory.

Jerry is somewhat correct when he says that you shouldn't play for points or comps. However, like all blanket statements, this is not entirely true. An example would be playing to get established in a casino where you would like to stay in the future. Since you are playing for future room offers, you want to maximize your coin-in (total play) without exposure to huge losses. A low-volatility video poker game may be just the ticket. For instance, $3000 coin-in during a trip at Main Street Station will get you future free room offers, usually monthly, and often with free food as well. The expected loss from $3000 of 9/6 Jacks or Better play is about $14. If this generates even a single room offer, this is obviously a sound play. More "upscale" casinos will require more coin-in (though MSS is quite nice), but usually, the value of the rooms exceeds the losses on decent VP games, since the offers are generally calibrated to an equivalent amount of slot action.

You do even better, of course, if you can play a positive EV game in the process. Jerry is quite incorrect when he implies that the 100.76% return of fullpay deuces wild is meaningless. To give you a comparison, +0.76% is the house edge on a six-deck blackjack game with average rules, and is larger than the house edge on a Pass Line bet with double odds. And the casino makes money on both. When the player has a similar advantage, he makes money in the long run, too. It is certainly possible to lose on a weekend trip, +EV or no, but the difference is, you will do better overall playing +EV games. On that one trip, you are also more likely to achieve a positive result.

Quote: mkl654321

We all know that Jerry thinks mathematics is a "theory". Since the house edge is simple mathematics, we must therefore conclude that the casino only "theoretically" wins. And all those big hotels they built from the profits garnered by the house edge only exist in theory.

Jerry is somewhat correct when he says that you shouldn't play for points or comps. However, like all blanket statements, this is not entirely true. An example would be playing to get established in a casino where you would like to stay in the future. Since you are playing for future room offers, you want to maximize your coin-in (total play) without exposure to huge losses. A low-volatility video poker game may be just the ticket. For instance, $3000 coin-in during a trip at Main Street Station will get you future free room offers, usually monthly, and often with free food as well. The expected loss from $3000 of 9/6 Jacks or Better play is about $14. If this generates even a single room offer, this is obviously a sound play. More "upscale" casinos will require more coin-in (though MSS is quite nice), but usually, the value of the rooms exceeds the losses on decent VP games, since the offers are generally calibrated to an equivalent amount of slot action.

You do even better, of course, if you can play a positive EV game in the process. Jerry is quite incorrect when he implies that the 100.76% return of fullpay deuces wild is meaningless. To give you a comparison, +0.76% is the house edge on a six-deck blackjack game with average rules, and is larger than the house edge on a Pass Line bet with double odds. And the casino makes money on both. When the player has a similar advantage, he makes money in the long run, too. It is certainly possible to lose on a weekend trip, +EV or no, but the difference is, you will do better overall playing +EV games. On that one trip, you are also more likely to achieve a positive result.

Another essay to nowhere that's meant to kill the monotony of one sour life being led.

The simple truth is that playing for points and comps is a tool the casinos use to take your money. Why do you think they have slot club cards, for the player's benefit? Why do you think they advertise all those promotions, because they just love giving it all away? People like mkl drool over such offerrings because if they had the money they couldn't turn them down, and even when they don't have the cash they have the wet dreams to fall back on.

Quote: JerryLogan

Another essay to nowhere that's meant to kill the monotony of one sour life being led.

The simple truth is that playing for points and comps is a tool the casinos use to take your money. Why do you think they have slot club cards, for the player's benefit? Why do you think they advertise all those promotions, because they just love giving it all away? People like mkl drool over such offerrings because if they had the money they couldn't turn them down, and even when they don't have the cash they have the wet dreams to fall back on.

I'm a winner. Jerry's a massive loser. That's the difference between "people like me" and people like Jerry (aside from the obvious personality differences). You notice that he doesn't even TRY to address, let alone refute my points. He instead hides behind personal attacks and name-calling.

The reason casinos advertise promos and give comps is that they want you to go into THEIR casino, not somebody else's. It's no different from a grocery store, or a restaurant, advertising a special, or a department store a sale. If the product (gambling, in this case) is being offered at a lower price, it's silly not to take advantage of that. Your results will be exactly the same with a slot card inserted or not, but you will get a certain amount of comps, based on the particular casino. If you're going to play anyway, it's a complete freebie. Of course, you shouldn't play any more than you normally would, but you don't HAVE to do that, just because SOME people (like, I strongly suspect, Jerry) have.

Quote: mkl654321

I'm a winner. Jerry's a massive loser. That's the difference between "people like me" and people like Jerry (aside from the obvious personality differences).

The reason casinos advertise promos and give comps is that they want you to go into THEIR casino, not somebody else's. It's no different from a grocery store, or a restaurant, advertising a special, or a department store a sale. If the product (gambling, in this case) is being offered at a lower price, it's silly not to take advantage of that. Your results will be exactly the same with a slot card inserted or not, but you will get a certain amount of comps, based on the particular casino. If you're going to play anyway, it's a complete freebie. Of course, you shouldn't play any more than you normally would, but you don't HAVE to do that, just because SOME people (like, I strongly suspect, Jerry) have.

Anyone ever tell you that denial is a major product of liars?

Quote: JerryLogan

Anyone ever tell you that denial is a major product of liars?

Are you calling me a liar, Jerry?

For low volatility and fun bleeps and bloops, I enjoy the 50 or 100 hand machines. They're more fun than the regular VP games. And once I got 15 royal flushes. But the paytables suck.

According to vpfree2.com, the Palms has 50-play 1 cent 9/6 Jacks or Better. I imagine the volatility would be very low. I'm going to check it out next month.

What fun are penny machines? You'd save yourself a lot of time and expense if you played the free 50/100 play games on www.5pms.com

Quote: JerryLogan

What fun are penny machines? You'd save yourself a lot of time and expense if you played the free 50/100 play games on www.5pms.com

A penny 100-play game gives you the same coin-in as a $1 game, but with much less variance.

Quote: dudestupid

For low volatility and fun bleeps and bloops, I enjoy the 50 or 100 hand machines. They're more fun than the regular VP games. And once I got 15 royal flushes. But the paytables suck.

According to vpfree2.com, the Palms has 50-play 1 cent 9/6 Jacks or Better. I imagine the volatility would be very low. I'm going to check it out next month.

I agree that these games are a lot of fun. You can also run a lot of coin-in through such a game, with, as you say, very low volatility. The Palms slot club offers 0.25% free play, so you're playing close to breakeven. If you don't belong to the slot club, new players get $25 in free play for playing $1500 through, which is an excellent deal--a 1.66% bonus.

Quote: mkl654321

I agree that these games are a lot of fun. You can also run a lot of coin-in through such a game, with, as you say, very low volatility. The Palms slot club offers 0.25% free play, so you're playing close to breakeven. If you don't belong to the slot club, new players get $25 in free play for playing $1500 through, which is an excellent deal--a 1.66% bonus.

.....if you think $25 in free play is worth anything beyond a Big Gulp.

Quote: JerryLogan

.....if you think $25 in free play is worth anything beyond a Big Gulp.

Yes, Jerry.