Reverable Royals
Will you be adjusting the Strategy Maker to include Reversible and Sequential Royals? For a given game we would like to know when we should sacrifice a good hand for playing high card(s) in the proper position.
Thank you
Quote: Tony8216Mr. Wizard,
Will you be adjusting the Strategy Maker to include Reversible and Sequential Royals? For a given game we would like to know when we should sacrifice a good hand for playing high card(s) in the proper position.
Thank you
A fair request, but that is not on my "to do" list.
Quote: Tony8216Mr. Wizard,
Will you be adjusting the Strategy Maker to include Reversible and Sequential Royals? For a given game we would like to know when we should sacrifice a good hand for playing high card(s) in the proper position.
Thank you
Is a sequential Royal an AKQJT in order and a Reversible Royal the . . . uh . . reverse, TJQKA ? Never seen that nomenclature before.
What is the payout for those royals? And in which game? Maybe some of us can provide some advice.
Quote: gordonm888Is a sequential Royal an AKQJT in order and a Reversible Royal the . . . uh . . reverse, TJQKA ? Never seen that nomenclature before.
What is the payout for those royals? And in which game? Maybe some of us can provide some advice.
My page on sequential royals treats them TJQKA only. I believe a Reversible Royal game pays in both directions. I should add analyzing that to my "to do" list. Until then, a 10,000 coin payoff for a 5-coin bet should add 0.46% to the return.
Santa Fe Stations Casino currently conflates the two terms. The sign above the bank says "reversible" but the game screen says "sequential". The slot tech says they pay both ways i.e. AKQJT or TJQKA. Historically "sequential " means TJQKA.
Tony
Quote: WizardMy page on sequential royals treats them TJQKA only. I believe a Reversible Royal game pays in both directions. I should add analyzing that to my "to do" list. Until then, a 10,000 coin payoff for a 5-coin bet should add 0.46% to the return.
Thanks.
I have not typed a single number into Excel, but my guess is that with 3 cards to a sequential royal (payout = 10,000) that you should break up a straight to draw to the three sequential royal cards - but that you should not break up a flush in the same situation.
Ex: with Ts-Js-Qd-Kd-As (in order) you should discard the Qd and Kd.
and with 2s-Js-Qs-Ks-3s you should hold all 5 cards.
If you have been dealt 2 cards to a sequential royal, its not worth much -on the order of 0.1 bet units. I don't imagine its going to change many decisions since you often hold the two high cards anyway.
For this discussion, aren't those the same?Quote: gordonm888...
Ex: with Ts-Js-Qd-Kd-As (in order) you should discard the Qd and Kd.
and with 2s-Js-Qs-Ks-3s you should hold all 5 cards.
I.E. Both have 3 Royal cards in the correct position.
Or are you keeping all 5 on the second hand because a flush pays more than a straight?
Quote: WizardMy page on sequential royals treats them TJQKA only. I believe a Reversible Royal game pays in both directions. I should add analyzing that to my "to do" list. Until then, a 10,000 coin payoff for a 5-coin bet should add 0.46% to the return.
The page that you link to shows an ordinary RF paying 800, so you are using bet units, not coins. The calculation on your 'sequential royals' page is for a 50,000 coin payoff for a 5-coin bet, or 10,000 for one. A reversible royal would add about 0.54% to the EV.
Quote: DJTeddyBearFor this discussion, aren't those the same?
I.E. Both have 3 Royal cards in the correct position.
Or are you keeping all 5 on the second hand because a flush pays more than a straight?
YES. The higher payout for the flush drives you to stand pat.
Quote: gordonm888YES. The higher payout for the flush drives you to stand pat.
It depends on the payoff for the sequential and the flush. For a sequential royal paying 50,000 for 5 coins, you would stand pat on a flush paying 6 for 1 and go for the royal on bonus poker where the flush only pays 5 for 1. As the wiz has pointed out, you can find all these strategy break points using any VP hand analyzer by setting the RF payout to the right value. In this case, half the royals will be sequential, so set the royal to pay (800 + 10000) / 2 = 5,400. For 6/5 BP, the RF draw is worth 5.67 bet units, so you break up a pat flush.
Quote: MentalIt depends on the payoff for the sequential and the flush. For a sequential royal paying 50,000 for 5 coins, you would stand pat on a flush paying 6 for 1 and go for the royal on bonus poker where the flush only pays 5 for 1.
Of course. I understand that completely without your explanation. Remember: you asked us for help with the strategy analysis - I note that I certainly haven't asked you to help me with the math or strategy analysis and I don't feel like I need any. I have my own customized personal tools at home for analyzing these kind of issues. If you will reread the thread:
1. you did not provide a payout,
2. I asked "what is the payout?"
3. Wizard provided a link to his page showing a payout of 10,000
4. I responded with this:
Quote: gordonm888
I have not typed a single number into Excel, but my guess is that with 3 cards to a sequential royal (payout = 10,000) that you should break up a straight to draw to the three sequential royal cards - but that you should not break up a flush in the same situation.
Ex: with Ts-Js-Qd-Kd-As (in order) you should discard the Qd and Kd.
and with 2s-Js-Qs-Ks-3s you should hold all 5 cards.
If you have been dealt 2 cards to a sequential royal, its not worth much -on the order of 0.1 bet units. I don't imagine its going to change many decisions since you often hold the two high cards anyway.
The information I posted above, IMO, helps provide readers with a feeling for the strategy issues. If you no longer need any assistance with the strategy then I won't post anymore.
Quote: unJonGordon you are confusing people. Mental didn’t ask for help. Tony did. Mental posted a very helpful post in the other reversible thread.
I have no problems with Gordon. I completely missed the part of the post where Gordon did specifically mention the sequential royal payout = 10,000. My bad.
We are in agreement on the strategy situation that Gordon posted.
