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gordonm888
gordonm888
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April 1st, 2020 at 1:55:14 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Also... just had a hand of straight flush, flush, flush, straight. Won $22 on a $9 bet. I don't think there is enough variance at all.



I agree. I played 200 hands with an RTP of 88% (yuch). That was using optimum play. I found it frustrating. I would make a great Trade and then hit a lucky Place and finish with Straight+Straight+ Flush and then realize that I had lost money! You never have a winning hand unless you get trips or a straight flush and even then you rarely win $9 from a $9 wager.

Here are some ideas, recognizing that most ideas are bad ideas:

1. Consider eliminating high pairs as a payout, or payout 1 only for an AA pair. This game is not about making pairs.

2. Considering adding to the payout table something like "Two 3 of Kind" or "Two Straight Flushes" with large payouts. Or "Two Royals" which I have never seen.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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April 1st, 2020 at 3:58:45 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Make the bet $10, not a silly $9.

Raise the mini royal enough to keep the RTP whatever you deem appropriate. Maybe $400? It will of course increase the variance substantially, but give a big prize to hope for.

How about $150 for mini royal clubs, diamonds, hearts, and $1000 for spades?



We will change the bet to $10 to play the game in our next update and see what impact raising the mini royal to 400 would do for the game.

I will check with Alex to see if we could do a mini royal payout where on suit will pay more than the others. This would keep the players playing for the big hand.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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April 1st, 2020 at 4:06:37 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I agree. I played 200 hands with an RTP of 88% (yuch). That was using optimum play. I found it frustrating. I would make a great Trade and then hit a lucky Place and finish with Straight+Straight+ Flush and then realize that I had lost money! You never have a winning hand unless you get trips or a straight flush and even then you rarely win $9 from a $9 wager.

Here are some ideas, recognizing that most ideas are bad ideas:

1. Consider eliminating high pairs as a payout, or payout 1 only for an AA pair. This game is not about making pairs.

2. Considering adding to the payout table something like "Two 3 of Kind" or "Two Straight Flushes" with large payouts. Or "Two Royals" which I have never seen.



1. I like the idea of removing high pairs and that should help a bit.

2. Also, like the idea of adding more options to the pay table. I wonder if it would be acceptable to remove straights and pairs from paying out. I think chopping those two things may allow us to really work on the upper end of the pay table.

My last resort is to go back to playing 3x3 but only paying the horizontal lines, so instead of six lines, the game would consist of three. We could still use the same concept of a trade card and place or just one place card (maybe 2). I don't think we are at that point yet, but something we can fall back on.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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VladAlex1
April 1st, 2020 at 4:48:35 PM permalink
Gordon got it right!

3 mini royals 400,000
2 mini royals 40,000
1 mini royal 400
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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VladAlex1
April 1st, 2020 at 6:55:52 PM permalink
Personally I accept that somtimes (say for a $10 bet) you might win less than that, but you need to keep a large payout to draw people in. Remember people playing 3CP always prefer the Pair+ bet which can pay 35/1 (40/1 or 50/1 in US).

Another idea is to reduce the chances of getting a trade. I like the idea of trundling along but every now and getting a nice juicy trade and winning a bundle.

btw I got 92% RTP with 81% having trades.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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RealizeGamingVladAlex1
April 2nd, 2020 at 9:50:21 AM permalink
Another possible idea:

Reduce the "lines" from 6 to 5 by eliminating the 3 vertical columns as possible three card hands and replacing them with the two diagonals. That could maintain the rich complexity of your game while reducing the player possibilities, thus giving you more headspace on designing the paytable.

However, a nuance that would need more thought is that currently you have all 9 cards that are a component of two possible hands, whereas with three horizontal lines and two diagonal lines you would have:

- 4 cards that are only part of one possible hand
- 4 cards that are part of two hands
- 1 card (the center card) that is part of three hands

So, from a "fun factor" point of view that might play a bit differently -you'd have to try it and see.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
RealizeGaming
RealizeGaming
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April 2nd, 2020 at 9:53:50 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

Personally I accept that somtimes (say for a $10 bet) you might win less than that, but you need to keep a large payout to draw people in. Remember people playing 3CP always prefer the Pair+ bet which can pay 35/1 (40/1 or 50/1 in US).

Another idea is to reduce the chances of getting a trade. I like the idea of trundling along but every now and getting a nice juicy trade and winning a bundle.

btw I got 92% RTP with 81% having trades.



Thanks @charliepatrick for you thoughts. I think we will be looking at the 10 dollar bet, having a pair of aces as the only pair that wins, and adjusting the higher ranking hands. We can always adjust the trade card but I think it works well at about 60% of the time.

I'm also very curious about the mini royal paying out according to suits mentioned a few post ago. We will see what we can put together.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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RealizeGamingVladAlex1
April 2nd, 2020 at 11:30:40 AM permalink
Just played 100 rounds. RTP 99.11%. I did hit a mini royal twice. One was on the deal with two cards to a mini royal lined up on another line before the draw card. I was fantasizing about my proposed two mini payout. Alas, didn't hit.
Joeman
Joeman
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April 2nd, 2020 at 12:40:08 PM permalink
I think this is a fun game. Could I offer two suggestions?

First, is it possible to trade on every hand instead of just when the trade card is dealt? It seems like the rate at which the trade card is dealt is pretty high anyway, but I find it frustrating that every now and then, I don't have the trade option, especially if there is a premium hand possible.

Second, can you make both the trade and place optional? I have had hands that wherever I put the place card, it reduces the payout. I can imagine the same happening with the trade, although I have not seen that occasion, yet.

I realize there must be a trade off such as lower pay tables to accommodate these concessions, but these are the types of things tend to leave a sour taste, and may prompt players to walk away.

EDIT -- I see that you can opt out of the trade.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
ksdjdj
ksdjdj
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VladAlex1RealizeGaming
April 3rd, 2020 at 12:21:07 AM permalink
Quote: RealizeGaming

(snip)


(snip)


If it is easy enough to do, can you make a 2nd box that shows/counts how many times you get paying hands and what they were (see below).

Round: 100 (not needed, since it is already in the "RTP box" that you already have created)
Short Royal: 2
Straight Flush: 15
3 of a Kind: 21
Straight: ?
Flush: ?
High Pair: ?

Note: For that play through I didn't keep track of the straights or lower, so that is why i put a "?" as the number.

Also Note: I used the data from here >>> https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/video-poker/34437-3-card-trade-n-place-poker/3/#post761411 <<< to get these figures

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