SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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September 9th, 2019 at 4:41:28 AM permalink
When you don't know what it is costing you to go to a casino, what do most people do? They play like they have an advantage when they don't. Many years ago, I asked the casino for an annual printout of my play. If you really want to have a bad day, ask for one of these yourself.

I believe every player should have all the information it takes to know what a trip to the casino is going to cost them long term. The games I play at the speed I play them have a negative EV of $4.50 an hour playing a quarter a hand. The same game at $1.25 a hand costs me $15 an hour to play. If I play the same game at $5 a hand, my expected cost is $60 a hour. This assumes I play 100% computer perfect and my jackpots appear on time.

I don't think everyone should play like I do. If you know the cost and you are OK with it, I think you should play whatever amount works for you. What I am against is going to the casino without all the information you need. From what I see on my trips, this is the norm.
Last edited by: SingleCoinVP on Sep 9, 2019
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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September 9th, 2019 at 6:09:18 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

When you don't know what it is costing you to go to a casino, what do most people do? They play like they have an advantage when they don't.

I don't think most people go to the casino thinking they have an advantage. I bet most people would say "The casino always wins". There are people who believe you can somehow use a "quit while you're ahead" for the day/session system to win long term(some of them even know all the math on the games).

For the normal average person who gambles they believe they can get lucky and win at times, but deep down they know they are at a disadvantage and will probably lose unless they get lucky and win and then walk away.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
rsactuary
rsactuary
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Forager
September 9th, 2019 at 6:59:44 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

The best games are normally at the bar.


'
My years of experience suggests that this is NOT the case. Usually bar machines have the worst pay tables, to help pay for the easy access to the free cocktails.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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September 9th, 2019 at 8:44:49 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For the normal average person who gambles they believe they can get lucky and win at times, but deep down they know they are at a disadvantage and will probably lose unless they get lucky and win and then walk away.

I believe what you say is true. Most players don't expect to make a long term profit. Few of us are going to beat the casino. It's a matter of how much we are willing to pay to play. One of the nice things about video poker is you can adjust your cost to play.

Playing video poker is an incredible bargain. When played accurately, the games I have to play have a 1-4% house edge. That's at least 3-5 times better than all the slots around me. I am involved in the decision making instead of watching the machine do it all. These days I go to the casino with $100. That won't buy a one person day ticket to Disney World. I often come home with at least that much. Over a year's time, it cost me a little to play. Where could I go and have that much fun for so little?
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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September 9th, 2019 at 9:16:44 AM permalink
Quote: SingleCoinVP

I believe what you say is true. Most players don't expect to make a long term profit. Few of us are going to beat the casino. It's a matter of how much we are willing to pay to play. One of the nice things about video poker is you can adjust your cost to play.

Playing video poker is an incredible bargain. The games I have to play have a 1-4% house edge. That's at least 3-5 times better than all the slots around me. I am involved in the decision making instead of watching the machine do it all. These days I go to the casino with $100. That won't buy a ticket to Disney World. I often come home with at least that much. Over a year's time, it cost me a little to play. Where could I go and have that much fun for so little?

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to talking about the house advantage on video poker, I know it well. I have played games straight up that were 103% all the way up to 200%+ Advantage due to miss programming.
We are in a much different situation since my goal of playing video poker and other things is not normally for entertainment, but to gain an advantage. I might screw around here in there killing some time for one reason or another.

I don't even know how many hands of of video poker I played, it's certainly in the Millions. Honestly, I prefer not to have to involve making decisions. That just makes it a slower process that's prone to mistakes. I much prefer playing a fun slot machine with an advantage VS video poker game with an advantage( it's just so much easier, trust me). I guess there are some video poker games that can kind of be fun for a little while. With all the fancy graphics and bonuses the manufacturers have come up with on slots, slot seem more like a video game to me compared to video poker. Don't get me wrong, under the right circumstances if there's a good promotion that involves hitting particular hands on video poker I suddenly start to enjoy playing. There's a few situations where ultimate X is an advantage and I enjoy playing that for a while.

Assuming you want to play the best EV possible on a video poker machine, if you really think about it.... you're not really making any decisions. The correct strategy is doing that all for you and you are just using your skills to follow that strategy.

Unfortunately, new skill slot games are few and far between, however, there are some around that require skill that at times can be +EV.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
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Forager
September 9th, 2019 at 11:08:02 AM permalink
I gotta agree with Axel.

Quote: SingleCoinVP



If you are going to frequent a casino, you should figure out where you fit into their business plan. Personally, I am not a fan of gambling in general. I do enjoy playing video games. The fact that I might win some money does not motivate me. I enjoy the casino experience. I like seeing happy people have fun. I enjoy the drive over and back. I take the country back roads past cows and horses. It reminds me of old Florida when I was a boy. I like being with my friends. They play slots, I play video poker. None of us pays much to play. None of us loses a lot of money. We play the games, have fun, laugh, eat lunch and walk out happy.



If you told me to list places where one could find "happy people having fun," it would take a long, long time before I mentioned a casino. After about 4 years straight of listing places... "wow... um, a burn unit. A Chinese sweatshop. A... casino?"

Particularly outside of major tourist spots. Yeah, someone who plays blackjack twice a year might legit be having happy fun time. But places where most players are regs are depressing AF. Watching the retirees play is a downer. People work all their lives to gain financial freedom and are fortunate enough to be born in the U.S. and that's the end result.

I gotta ask, what is so fun about VP? I wouldn't compare it to Candy Crush. I've dabbled in that and a few other dumb FB games. I actually got sucked into Mob Wars fairly hard back in the day. While those are wastes of time, they aren't so mindless. As you play, new levels are uncovered and it feels like you are making progress from one day to the next. You are making decisions and developing your own strategy. You compete with other players.

You could play Words With Friends or something, or for that matter Gin against your friends for money. Plus you'd be playing the game WITH them and actually interact. And you'd not donate to a casino.

With VP, the same thing happens again and again. 5 cards are picked at random from a deck. You try to remember what to do from a list of rules someone else invented. Then you get 0-5 more random cards from a deck.

It's surprising that you enjoy exploring back roads and looking at the animals and stuff. My first thought regarding someone who likes to see the numbers 1-52 rearanged again and again and again and again would be that they are on the spectrum or otherwise limited in such a way that they could not appreciate such things.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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September 9th, 2019 at 1:15:27 PM permalink
You bring up some good points. My friends and I don't consider a casino a sad place to be. We know there will be a cost for a day at our casino and we play accordingly. The worst thing that can happen to me in a day at the casino is I will lose $100. The best thing is I will have a good time and I may come home with more money than I left with.

Gambling is not why we go to the casino. My friends and I like to get together once a week and ride over to the casino. None of us is under the illusion that we are going to beat the casino. We enjoy the ride over and back. We talk about our lives and the businesses we ran. Once in a while someone hits a jackpot and makes a few hundred dollars. We are all happy for him. Instead of sitting around watching Fox News all day, we get out of the house. Playing video poker in a beautiful air conditioned casino is pleasurable, unless you make it painful.

I tried to beat the casino for years. I paid for my mistakes. Today, I play as much video poker as I want and I don't come home depressed. The casino wants me to play bigger. My mailbox is full of offers for free stuff that's not worth what it costs to win. When I lose $100 at the casino, I smile because I know it could have been much worse.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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September 9th, 2019 at 4:41:22 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

We're looking for a new team member, someone, fun, interesting, and intelligent? What do you think...

about about asking the Mrs. if she wants to join.
?😊



Geez Axel.... I already set up my ex-wife to help your team, and now you want my new wife as well? It is 'possible" I'll do something with you next time I come to Vegas..... I am unemployed now.....
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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September 9th, 2019 at 5:00:22 PM permalink
I go to the casino about 3 or 4 times each year. It keeps the games exciting. When I haven't visited for awhile, I yearn to return!
jjjoooggg
jjjoooggg
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September 9th, 2019 at 9:29:19 PM permalink
Vegas is like a big party. Most are on vacation and don't care about +EV. Except, AP's are on vacation everyday.

I've haven't been to a casino in 2019 yet. But I look forward to going.
I belong to an elite group called the "Zombie Outbreak Response Team."

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