SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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August 31st, 2019 at 6:56:59 AM permalink
I am new to this forum. I am a long time video poker player. I am retired and play about 300,000 hands of VP a year. I play VP for entertainment. I live in the Southeast. The casinos where I play offer games in the 97% range. I play single line Deuces Wild. After years of paying to play, I found the cost to play max coin VP exceeded the value I received. As a consequence, I switched to playing single coin quarter VP.

Since our casinos started dropping their VP odds, I started dropping my bet. Our casinos are not your friend. They want you to sit on a 97% game and wait for a royal flush. If you do this you will pay 3-5 times what a royal is worth. You may be asking, Why do I play VP at all? It's something I enjoy as long as it doesn't cost me a lot of money.

I have read the forum rules. I am not into insulting people. I believe in math. I do not believe anyone can beat my casino games long term. I use computer software and I play accurately. I keep good records. I don't expect to make a long term profit. What I expect is to play a lot of VP without paying a lot.
Last edited by: SingleCoinVP on Aug 31, 2019
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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August 31st, 2019 at 7:43:05 AM permalink
welcome

actually, many respected pros say if the return isn't at least close to 100%, so that you can ponder if comps can take you over to positive expectation, then there is no point in playing max coins, your expected loss will simply be lower with one coin [I suppose there could be exceptions]

what happened to me though, I did hit my only royal playing 8/5 jacks or better, or similar, with one coin. You have to decide if you can take the irony of that.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
MDawg
MDawg
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August 31st, 2019 at 7:57:47 AM permalink
The reason poker players are able to win against humans is due to player error, or taking advantage of different strategies where the winner's strategy ends up being superior to the loser's, skill in bluffing, skill in reading bluffs, etc. Do any of those apply in video poker? If not, there is no way to win consistently against a poker machine even if the odds are better than regular slots. I almost never touch machines, strictly for squares in my book. Boring.

There are apparently two types of gambler though. The ones who like table games like me, prefer the tension of getting the cards which builds up and is released when the hand results are revealed. There is a sort of hi-low-low-hi rush to it.

Slots players have personalities that like to zone out, according to psychologists they are not looking for that rising tension released by the end result, they are simply pushing buttons to go into some dulled state that their minds enjoy.
I tell you it’s wonderful to be here, man. I don’t give a damn who wins or loses. It’s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly
Joined: Jul 9, 2010
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August 31st, 2019 at 8:08:13 AM permalink
Welcome to the forum! You are right, when you play a game with a 3% house edge your expectation should be enjoyment at a cost.

Your 300,000 hands/year of single-coin (assuming 25-cents) may seem to be a $2250/year entertainment cost. However, the reduced royal payout for single-coin play increases the house edge so your expected cost will be more than that. You didn't give the paytable you play, so I can't say what that increase is.

But, since you believe in math, it might be an informative exercise for you to compare your entertainment cost difference between 5- and 1-coin play. 300,000 hands/year for 5-coin play with a 3% house edge has an expected cost of $11,250/year. As long as the house edge on the single-coin paytable is less than 15% your are reducing your yearly entertainment expense.

At least in terms of what happens at the machine. If you get comps for your play, well that would be another factor. Good luck!
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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August 31st, 2019 at 8:14:28 AM permalink
I have been playing video poker for nearly 20 years. When I started playing 9/6 Jacks was common and I played at the dollar level. We would travel to Biloxi 3-4 times a year and to Vegas on vacation. After Katrina and the financial crisis, we noticed VP odds and comps were dropping. Some casinos cut video poker comps completely. 9/6 Jacks became 8/5, then 7/5. Casinos offered us free rooms and free flights from Florida. Our losses playing bad games was much more than our winnings. It was depressing.

Since switching to single coin quarter play, my attitude has changed considerably. I no longer dread going to the casino. I enjoy video poker because of the interaction. I find regular slots boring. I play at least 3,000 hands of VP each week, occasionally much more. If I hit a $62.50 royal flush, it's just another jackpot to me. I quit counting royals years ago. So far, I have kept close to even with the casino. When you are playing as small as I do, it doesn't take much luck to make you a winner.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh
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Calder
August 31st, 2019 at 8:48:33 AM permalink
Welcome!

I like your outlook: Play good games with good strategy for entertainment.

It's supposedly what "gaming" is all about—entertainment. Even if you break even or post a small loss in the ledger, it sounds as if you have fun, which was worth it!

Contrast that to "gambling," which is all about winning. I'd hate to have the stress that comes with a must-win casino visit!

Hope you find the forum informative and entertaining!
sabre
sabre
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AxelWolf
August 31st, 2019 at 9:28:37 AM permalink
On crappy machines you'll lose less by playing 1 coin. The 2% or so house edge is offset by the reduced wagering.

However, playing a single dollar coin instead of 5 coin quarter is stupid. Playing a single quarter if 5 coin nickel is available is stupid.
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
Joined: Aug 31, 2019
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MichaelBluejay
August 31st, 2019 at 9:53:55 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

On crappy machines you'll lose less by playing 1 coin. The 2% or so house edge is offset by the reduced wagering.

However, playing a single dollar coin instead of 5 coin quarter is stupid. Playing a single quarter if 5 coin nickel is available is stupid.

With all due respect, it depends on the odds. On many of our local video poker games the single coin odds are better than the max coin odds at the lower denomination. A royal bonus is not a bonus if it costs you more long term.
Mission146
Mission146
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August 31st, 2019 at 9:54:47 AM permalink
Good take in general (Sabre), but can still depend on the paytable. The OP would love 9-6 Jacks that pays a flat 500-For-1 on the Royal regardless of the number of coins bet! I’ve only seen such a machine in two different places, though, and my understanding is it’s gone from one.

It’s very rare, but I’ve seen at least a handful of Spin Poker games that offer 800-For-1 on Royal regardless of number of lines played. One type of these was set such you could play 1-5 coins per line while the other you could ONLY play one coin per line.

Anyway, if you look around for these types of value machines, sometimes you’ll find them. Unfortunately, they “Fixed,” the spin poker for nickels, dimes and quarters (and reduced paytable) at the casino I’m thinking of, but the situation I describe still exists for dollars as of roughly a month or two ago.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
SingleCoinVP
SingleCoinVP
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August 31st, 2019 at 10:14:12 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

It’s very rare, but I’ve seen at least a handful of Spin Poker games that offer 800-For-1 on Royal regardless of number of lines played. One type of these was set such you could play 1-5 coins per line while the other you could ONLY play one coin per line.

I have seen a few of those machines over the years. They had some single line VP games at the Gulfstream casino in Hallandale Florida that paid 800 coins for a single coin royal. They took them out a long time ago.

The problem with max coin play on a 97% VP game is simple to understand. If the house edge is 3%, the more you put through the machine the more money the casino makes. I have never seen comps big enough to overcome a 3% house advantage. There is a point where you are just paying double or triple for each royal.

Playing single coin VP is not for beginners. If you hit a $62.50 royal, your friends will call you an idiot. You will want to jump off the nearest bridge. I have hit multiple single coin royals in a day. Ask me how that feels. In the long term, you will do better playing 97% VP as cheap as you can stand.

If you are fortunate enough to have good games and comps, don't even think about playing single coin. Unfortunately, most of the VP games I see are crappy.

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