Moving Multipliers

For those of you familiar with Haywire Poker, Moving Multipliers is the same thing except he multiplier you get with the bottom hand stays the same as it drifts across the screen.

For those not familiar with Haywire Poker, for an extra three coins per line, the player gets an 11.5% chance of a multiplier on the bottom hand of multi-play poker. It will then drift across the screen on all subsequent hands until it drops off.

The bottom line is an increase in return of 0.21% compared the same game and pay table for conventional video poker. So, please check out my new page on Moving Multipliers. As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you play Moving Multipliers?

even though the returns and avg multiplier (6.25) is exactly the same as Haywire, I would prefer haywire because of the added mystery of what the next multiplier will be.

as for Vulture, I would say the avg multiplier needs to be at least 2 to be +EV for the bad pay games.
thus for 5 play with single multiplier, it needs to be 10 or better.

To the person who voted, "Can this be vultured?," the answer is yes. If you are in the middle of a moving multiplier, and don't make a max bet, the multiplier becomes dormant and is greyed out. So, if you see one of these machines, look for any greyed out multipliers on the screen.

Quote: 100xOdds

as for Vulture, I would say the avg multiplier needs to be at least 2 to be +EV for the bad pay games.
thus for 5 play with single multiplier, it needs to be 10 or better.

I would say that you are incorrect, with all due respect. There are a few reasons:

1.) If you can still qualify for earned multipliers by betting five coins, then ANY multiplier is good up to at least ten-play.

2.) If you have to bet eight coins, then the bottom hand can get a multiplier and every hand will have a multiplier thereafter at least once. Meantime, bottom hand could still get one.

Okay, so assuming the worst, Ten-Play with the multiplier feature might return 95% overall. (It's not that bad) Better yet, let's use an actual example from an actual paytable:

The worst Bonus Poker has a base return of .9578 and a return of .9598 with the feature. With a five credit bet, the player expects, from base, to get:

.9578 * 5 = 4.789

If you extrapolate that to ten hands, the player bets fifty credits and expects to get 47.89 back.

Now, with the feature, the player would bet eighty credits and expects to get, without a multiplier to begin with:

80 * .9598 = 76.784

What we determine is that any addition to the base pay (in the form of a multiplier) is worth 4.789 per multiplier value because it is based upon getting paid on five coins for that hand based on the base expectation of 95.78%.

If you add 4.789 to 76.784 you would get 81.573, so 81.573/80 = 101.96625%

The worst case scenario would be one 2x multiplier on the tenth hand on ten-play, but much like regular and spin Ultimate X (which is a ten-credit bet) even if you have to bet all ten credits per hand, (usually not the case) you still have an advantage.

Quote: Wizard

To the person who voted, "Can this be vultured?," the answer is yes. If you are in the middle of a moving multiplier, and don't make a max bet, the multiplier becomes dormant and is greyed out. So, if you see one of these machines, look for any greyed out multipliers on the screen.

so you can just bet 5 coins to get the current multiplier?

edit:
Mission answered below

Quote: Mission146

I would say that you are incorrect, with all due respect. There are a few reasons:

1.) If you can still qualify for earned multipliers by betting five coins, then ANY multiplier is good up to at least ten-play.

2.) If you have to bet eight coins, then the bottom hand can get a multiplier and every hand will have a multiplier thereafter at least once. Meantime, bottom hand could still get one.

Okay, so assuming the worst, Ten-Play with the multiplier feature might return 95% overall. (It's not that bad) Better yet, let's use an actual example from an actual paytable:

The worst Bonus Poker has a base return of .9578 and a return of .9598 with the feature. With a five credit bet, the player expects, from base, to get:

.9578 * 5 = 4.789

If you extrapolate that to ten hands, the player bets fifty credits and expects to get 47.89 back.

Now, with the feature, the player would bet eighty credits and expects to get, without a multiplier to begin with:

80 * .9598 = 76.784

What we determine is that any addition to the base pay (in the form of a multiplier) is worth 4.789 per multiplier value because it is based upon getting paid on five coins for that hand based on the base expectation of 95.78%.

If you add 4.789 to 76.784 you would get 81.573, so 81.573/80 = 101.96625%

The worst case scenario would be one 2x multiplier on the tenth hand on ten-play, but much like regular and spin Ultimate X (which is a ten-credit bet) even if you have to bet all ten credits per hand, (usually not the case) you still have an advantage.

yes, I know if all it takes is 5credit bet, then ANY multiplier = +EV.

im assuming you have to max bet to play the multiplier since the manufacturers have gotten wise to Vultures.

thus why I think for 5 play with single multiplier showing, it needs to be 10x or better.
ie: avg of 2x multiplier per line

Quote: 100xOdds

so you can just bet 5 coins to get the current multiplier?

No, you cannot. Wizard was saying that if you see greyed out multipliers, they are dormant and can be vultured. If you see them at all, they can be vultured, unless it is already on the tenth hand, then it will disappear. At least, on VP.com, it would just stay there until you did a Max Bet again.

Quote: 100xOdds

yes, I know with a 5credit bet, ANY multiplier = +EV.

im assuming you have to max bet to play the multiplier since the manufacturers have gotten wise to Vultures.

Any multiplier will generally be good unless it is an especially stupid game like Bonus Streak.

Maybe it's because of vultures, I don't know. I think it probably has more to do with encouraging players to not want to leave any multipliers behind, and therefore, put more money in. Certainly with UX you would have people who would, "Play off," the very same multipliers they generated.

There are a few other possible reasons, too, but we won't get into them.

Mission's answer looks right. You must bet eight coins per line to get the dormant multipliers. I also agree that almost any situation would be +EV, with the only exception, maybe, being 10-play, with a 2x early in the stream, on a lousy pay table.