AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 139
  • Posts: 17966
June 13th, 2016 at 6:01:20 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

what games do they make?
and Why are they camping out?

perhaps they have good pay tables and they sit there waiting for people on the UX to leave or something.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5467
June 13th, 2016 at 8:46:29 AM permalink
I like the thread idea, and it makes great sense for your situation. Likewise, I have a teammate and we run plays that are much much more EV than the .25 vulture he see's on the screen and wants to play. On more than one occasion I've had to remind him to let them go, because we have been approached by hosts/etc just from walking in the building (thus they've watched us on camera). I gave him the same argument that we didn't need to give them any reasons and added the argument of value. Is it worth the $5 expected value of that vulture pull to stir the pot in a casino where you're making a lot more than that on other plays?

If I was a casual gambler (not AP) that knew about vulturing I would certainly do it though. At that point unless you're a high roller you're probably not being monitored and you also have relatively little to lose, if anything.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 239
June 13th, 2016 at 10:42:29 AM permalink
I think you can pretty much do anything you want in a casino as long as it doesn't deviate that far from your typical losing gambler. Ploppies selectively choose machines and switch to machines on a whim, I don't think that is an issue. When people loiter like weirdos or suddenly sprint to machines like mad men your behavior is no longer typical.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5467
June 13th, 2016 at 11:03:01 AM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

I think you can pretty much do anything you want in a casino as long as it doesn't deviate that far from your typical losing gambler...

So long as the casino currently views you as a typical losing gambler. In Bob's case he's well known by many surveillance teams and thus doesn't have that luxury of anonymity.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 239
June 13th, 2016 at 12:04:24 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

So long as the casino currently views you as a typical losing gambler. In Bob's case he's well known by many surveillance teams and thus doesn't have that luxury of anonymity.



Which is the part I don't completely understand. I know Bob has done things in conjunction with casinos, so it makes sense that those properties will let him play provided he doesn't beat them up too bad. But why would a casino who knows he is a big AP player and is only playing games worth his while let that play continue but then sweat him on some smaller +EV plays (plays that in some cases the house is not even losing money) ? Like he has talked about before how some AP'ers foolishly bite the hand that feeds for some short term +EV and lose sight of the bigger picture where they could have stayed for the longer term which I think his post here builds on. But I am just missing the piece where the casino is cool with him playing a 12 hr session on a good VP game but he plays one hand of UX and suddenly they want him ejected ?
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5467
June 13th, 2016 at 12:18:41 PM permalink
I can't answer for Bob, only speculate. I think as he kind of said earlier it's fuel to the fire. Some places are perhaps okay with him playing, while some shift managers in particular don't like the decision handed down from above and perhaps they're looking for a reason... So something like card pulling, vulturing, and other things he call "taking a shot" would be essentially giving them a reason for interaction, which he wants to avoid. Again, just my opinion.

As mentioned above I've been approached by hosts without playing a game so I know after I swipe in for the day the camera has followed me to tell them where I am. So in that case while you're being watched it might ruin your "ploppy" status to start vulturing/card pulling/etc while on camera.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
June 13th, 2016 at 12:21:06 PM permalink
And why I don't use cards in locations where I AP.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 5467
June 13th, 2016 at 12:49:15 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

And why I don't use cards in locations where I AP.

Simply not possible with some plays at certain levels of play.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
June 13th, 2016 at 12:50:06 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

Simply not possible with some plays at certain levels of play.


Not true. Unless in AC counting.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 2018
June 13th, 2016 at 4:01:57 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

what games do they make?
and Why are they camping out?



They make quite a lot of games. Most of them are not beatable, but a much higher percentage of their games are beatable than other manufacturers. In Las Vegas I've seen Cash Eruption with an easy progressive to watch, Egyptian Dream and at least one other have nudging wilds, Wild Mermaids and at least one other have a feature somewhat similar to the Green Stamps machine bonus round.

There is no point to "camp out." Walk by them and see if any thing is playable or not. Usually there won't be. Then move on to whatever else is worthwhile. If someone is playing and it is +EV, then check back in a few minutes. and see if it's free and still a good play

  • Jump to: