4 of a Kind

Hello VP players!

I notice four of a kind hits at least once per session (4 to 8 hours of play). Because of this, I have some questions:

1 If aiming for 4 of a kind instead of Royal, would you play differently?

2) Would you select a different VP machine to play rather than playing a VP machine w/Optimum Play (factoring in Royal)?

3) Would you prefer higher payout for 4 of a kind and lower payout for 2 pairs OR lower payout for 4 of a kind and higher payout for 2 pairs?

Thanks!

If you're dealt four to the Royal and a pair of J's, how do you expect to get four of a kind by holding the four to a royal?

Your questions are strange.

Quote: JustALuck

Hello VP players!

I notice four of a kind hits at least once per session (4 to 8 hours of play). Because of this, I have some questions:

1 If aiming for 4 of a kind instead of Royal, would you play differently?

2) Would you select a different VP machine to play rather than playing a VP machine w/Optimum Play (factoring in Royal)?

3) Would you prefer higher payout for 4 of a kind and lower payout for 2 pairs OR lower payout for 4 of a kind and higher payout for 2 pairs?

Thanks!

From an AP's perspective -


1) Yes -- but this doesn't mean you should play differently.

2) I'd rather play the best machine available for whatever it is I'm trying to do. Sometimes a game like double double bonus is better while other times a game like jacks or better is better.

3) Similar to #2, different machines are better for different reasons under certain circumstances.

If you're playing to have fun, pick a game you enjoy the most. For some, that's a low volatile game like JOB or BP. For others, they want more volatility and possibility at a bigger hit, so they play DB or DDB.....and some go as far to play TDB or another extreme game (like ultra bonus poker, although rare).

Quote: sabre

If you're dealt four to the Royal and a pair of J's, how do you expect to get four of a kind by holding the four to a royal?

Your questions are strange.

You lost me with your question...If I got a Royal, of course I'll take it... however, Optimum Play factors in Royal. So I was wondering if you would play differently if aiming for four of a kind and not factor in Royal. Question number three in OP was referring to paytable if the question wasn't clear.

Quote: RS

From an AP's perspective -


1) Yes -- but this doesn't mean you should play differently.

2) I'd rather play the best machine available for whatever it is I'm trying to do. Sometimes a game like double double bonus is better while other times a game like jacks or better is better.

3) Similar to #2, different machines are better for different reasons under certain circumstances.

If you're playing to have fun, pick a game you enjoy the most. For some, that's a low volatile game like JOB or BP. For others, they want more volatility and possibility at a bigger hit, so they play DB or DDB.....and some go as far to play TDB or another extreme game (like ultra bonus poker, although rare).

Thanks RS! I guess I'll stick to Optimum Play.

Quote: JustALuck

Hello VP players!

I notice four of a kind hits at least once per session (4 to 8 hours of play). Because of this, I have some questions:

1 If aiming for 4 of a kind instead of Royal, would you play differently?

2) Would you select a different VP machine to play rather than playing a VP machine w/Optimum Play (factoring in Royal)?

3) Would you prefer higher payout for 4 of a kind and lower payout for 2 pairs OR lower payout for 4 of a kind and higher payout for 2 pairs?

Thanks!

You're either playing slow as hell, extremely wrong, or you don't have very many sessions in, playing slow and running bad. You should get a 4 of a kind on average once an hour even playing slow it's just above 400 hands. You should have no problem playing 600hph.

Quote: JustALuck

Hello VP players!

1 If aiming for 4 of a kind instead of Royal, would you play differently?

2) Would you select a different VP machine to play rather than playing a VP machine w/Optimum Play (factoring in Royal)?

3) Would you prefer higher payout for 4 of a kind and lower payout for 2 pairs OR lower payout for 4 of a kind and higher payout for 2 pairs?

Thanks!

Hello!

1.) If your goal was to achieve more Quads, then yes, there are ways to play that would serve you in attempting to achieve that goal. However, there is an Optimal Strategy for every Video Poker game (many are known, others are not readily available) and you would generally want to play pursuant to the Optimal Strategy in order to ensure the best return. This doesn't even necessarily need to be as extreme as holding a pair over Four-to-a-Royal in order to maximize Quads, in many games, holding Four-to-Any-Flush over a non-paying pair is the correct decision.

There will be occasions that it is Optimal to go for more four-of-a-kinds, for instance, a Four-of-a-Kind Promotion could be one such example...but such Promotions can also effectively be looked at as changing the effective paytable of the game...so again...you would just be playing Optimally.

2.) Again, if you wanted to Maximize the number of Quads you get and that is your sole objective, then I would play the game in which I have the highest probability of getting a Quad pursuant to the Optimal Strategy for that game. Many players want to play the game that has the lowest House Edge or that has a Player Advantage. I generally want to stick to the few games in which I play close to Optimally but am willing to play a different game (and have to check a bunch of hands) if there is a substantial difference. There might also be occasions in which you want reduced Variance (for one reason or another) and will deliberately choose a game with a worse return than something that is available at a higher denomination.

3.) I prefer Jacks or Better and Bonus Poker to the other Bonus Variants, so give me the 2-For-1 on the Two Pair, in that case, but that is just a general personal preference (that doesn't always apply) and many out there prefer games with more variance than that.

You're welcome.

Is there any particular play or Promotion you are wondering about specifically? Feel free to PM me if you need some kind of Promotion involving Four of a Kinds looked at and I will be happy to do it for you, at least, to the best of my ability. If I can't figure it out using the tools available to me, I can probably talk to someone on here who can.

Quote: AxelWolf

You're either playing slow as hell, extremely wrong, or you don't have very many sessions in, playing slow and running bad. You should get a 4 of a kind on average once an hour even playing slow it's just above 400 hands. You should have no problem playing 600hph.

Yea, I just started playing and am not a "pro" at all yet... I keep referring to Optimum Play every hand...I am sure eventually, I'll pick up the speed.

Quote: JustALuck

Yea, I just started playing and am not a "pro" at all yet... I keep referring to Optimum Play every hand...I am sure eventually, I'll pick up the speed.

Don't make playing faster a goal in and of itself, just keep making the right plays by consulting the Optimum Strategy. Eventually, as you learn the concepts (and even eventually memorize individual decisions) you'll just naturally get faster. In the event that you are playing a Negative Expectation game, there really is not any reason whatsoever to even WANT to play faster.

Mission146, PM sent! =)

I only average a bit over 400 hands an hour. When I try to do 600 on a practice program, I make more errors. Speed only comes in on double point days and other multipliers. Concentrate on accuracy, speed will work itself out.

Here are some more newbie questions... Regards to common vp progressive games:

1) Is there such a progressive jackpot for quads?
2) If yes, after jackpot hits, does it resets to same payout as non-progressive version?

Quote: JustALuck

Here are some more newbie questions... Regards to common vp progressive games:

1) Is there such a progressive jackpot for quads?
2) If yes, after jackpot hits, does it resets to same payout as non-progressive version?

Sometimes. The most common is Double Double bonus.

Quote: JustALuck

Here are some more newbie questions... Regards to common vp progressive games:

1) Is there such a progressive jackpot for quads?
2) If yes, after jackpot hits, does it resets to same payout as non-progressive version?

Usually yes, why? NVM don't answer that.

Quote: RogerKint

Sometimes. The most common is Double Double bonus.

Thanks Roger and Axel...

Axel: I'll try to answer anyway... I'm still new with this ...so obviously my reason might not makes sense ... I'm looking to hit Royal as a long term goal and yet trying to hit quads a couple of times per sessions as a short term goal. I realized using optimal strategy is best for overall return. So, I am sticking it to that. However, I am thinking to myself....when should I quit every session? Stoploss is one and target profit is another. So, I thought maybe I should quit when I hit x number of quads and hoping someday hit a royal or two.

Quote: JustALuck

Thanks Roger and Axel...

Axel: I'll try to answer anyway... I'm still new with this ...so obviously my reason might not makes sense ... I'm looking to hit Royal as a long term goal and yet trying to hit quads a couple of times per sessions as a short term goal. I realized using optimal strategy is best for overall return. So, I am sticking it to that. However, I am thinking to myself....when should I quit every session? Stoploss is one and target profit is another. So, I thought maybe I should quit when I hit x number of quads and hoping someday hit a royal or two.

If you're gambling to have fun, then stop gambling when you're no longer having fun.

If you're not gambling to have fun, then don't gamble.

You're clearly not gambling with an edge, so don't worry about that situation.

Quote: JustALuck

Thanks Roger and Axel...

Axel: I'll try to answer anyway... I'm still new with this ...so obviously my reason might not makes sense ... I'm looking to hit Royal as a long term goal and yet trying to hit quads a couple of times per sessions as a short term goal. I realized using optimal strategy is best for overall return. So, I am sticking it to that. However, I am thinking to myself....when should I quit every session? Stoploss is one and target profit is another. So, I thought maybe I should quit when I hit x number of quads and hoping someday hit a royal or two.

Since you like quad progs, find a few places that offer them. A good stopping point would be when you hit a quad and reset the meter, if it resets. Move to a different bank and hit that one. Stop when it's no longer fun.

Quote: sabre

You're clearly not gambling with an edge, so don't worry about that situation.

I'm trying to play optimal strategy from WoO...are you saying his optimal strategy is not the best to play? I also use comp as well...

Quote: RogerKint

Since you like quad progs, find a few places that offer them. A good stopping point would be when you hit a quad and reset the meter, if it resets. Move to a different bank and hit that one. Stop when it's no longer fun.

Makes sense! Thanks Roger!

Quote: JustALuck

I'm trying to play optimal strategy from WoO...are you saying his optimal strategy is not the best to play? I also use comp as well...

Theoretically the progressive could get high enough where deviations from normal optimal strategy would be warranted.

Quote: RogerKint

Theoretically the progressive could get high enough where deviations from normal optimal strategy would be warranted.

Ahhh, maybe use WoO's vp strategy calculator to enter progressive amount to get a better strategy?

Quote: JustALuck

Ahhh, maybe use WoO's vp strategy calculator to enter progressive amount to get a better strategy?

You're probably going to be ok with basic strategy since quads hit often. But ya, that's a mighty fine tool JB has created. Good luck!

Quad progressives usually don't get high enough to find a consistent spot to play, but straight flushes go multiple cycles without hitting at most places.

Quote: djatc

Quad progressives usually don't get high enough to find a consistent spot to play, but straight flushes go multiple cycles without hitting at most places.

+1.

Way back when the frontier had some kind of .25 muliti way progressive where K Q and J's got up fairly often to a fairly good number, IIRC $80+. The first time I started playing them I ran super good and always snapped them off quickly. I thought wow this is easy. I always ran good on 4oak's especially when I needed them to really count.
Very fun. I always liked chasing after small quick meeters it was like a contest.