Old news - but interesting!
They talked about this on the radio show too and Munchkin had a good ideas off the top of his head too.. such as paying someone $20 to ask for the double up to be turned on, then later you get on that machine. It's REALLY EASY to get away with ANYTHING legal or illegal in this world if you just put a few minutes of real thought in to it lol. No I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal =P.
Quote: RomesYeah, there's several... but it's still an interesting read. It's especially an interesting read on what NOT TO DO. If you're "printing money" why on EARTH would you ever collect more than 1 jackpot from a casnio? Just hit this casino for $5k, hit the next for $5k, hit the next, and so on. Hell, just win $5k per week... that's already $260,000 per year.
They talked about this on the radio show too and Munchkin had a good ideas off the top of his head too.. such as paying someone $20 to ask for the double up to be turned on, then later you get on that machine. It's REALLY EASY to get away with ANYTHING legal or illegal in this world if you just put a few minutes of real thought in to it lol. No I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal =P.
The main problem with anyone doing anything like this is they get greedy.
Quote: RomesYeah, there's several... but it's still an interesting read. It's especially an interesting read on what NOT TO DO. If you're "printing money" why on EARTH would you ever collect more than 1 jackpot from a casnio? Just hit this casino for $5k, hit the next for $5k, hit the next, and so on. Hell, just win $5k per week... that's already $260,000 per year.
Agreed. How many of the casino's have the GameKing multi-game machine's installed, like all of them! Just hit the hand pay jackpot, wait a couple days, hit another casino and do the same thing until all casinos in a reasonable area (like the entire Las Vegas valley) have been hit. Then repeat the route on a different shift and different machine in each shop. Keep repeating this pattern indefinitely!
decision on how to play when you
don't have all the info you need.
How long will this last, how many
others are doing it. The tendency
would be to act just like these guys
did, milk it fast for as much as you
can because tomorrow it might be
gone. I'm betting there were others
milking this glitch also, we have no
way of knowing how many. It was
only a matter of time till IGT shut it
down.
That was yet another thought I had... Why not "coin up" to wins around $800-$1100... thus no W2. Hit that, cash out, no W2, no attention, move on to the next casino.Quote: IbeatyouracesThey probably would've never been caught if they were winning less than the $1200 per hand. Greed is not good in this instance. Greed kills. Same thing with Harris.
Even if you're worried it will be turned off or others are doing it... This is still the most logical course of action. Fly under the radar, hit casino after casino, and lol your way to the bank. If you're really that worried hit one $10k win per week at different casinos to boot. That'll add up quite quickly ($520,000/year).
Quote: IbeatyouracesThey probably would've never been caught if they were winning less than the $1200 per hand. Greed is not good in this instance. Greed kills. Same thing with Harris.
Like I said, we can have no idea how many
others were playing this glitch, so it had
an exp date. It's not about not getting caught,
it's about exploiting the glitch before it disappears.
Disagree. How do 99% of glitches/plays get caught on to? By people exploiting them entirely too much thus giving too much info for the execs/EITS to look at and figure the play out... which is exactly what happened here.Quote: EvenBobLike I said, we can have no idea how many
others were playing this glitch, so it had
an exp date. It's not about not getting caught,
it's about exploiting the glitch before it disappears.
Even so... Fine, earn $10k per day. How hard is it to win $2k from 5 different casinos w/ no W2's using this glitch? It should be a joke. The guy lives in Vegas. He could make $50k per day without a W2 nor any casino being the wiser.
Quote: RomesDisagree. How do 99% of glitches/plays get caught on to? By people exploiting them entirely too much thus giving too much info for the execs/EITS to look at and figure the play out... which is exactly what happened here..
And would have happened when somebody
else was greedy, which was sure to happen.
It's oh so easy to sit here after all the facts
are known and figure the way you would have
played it. But when it was actually going on,
you have no idea when it will end, you're
playing in the dark. The impulse is to make
as much as you can as fast as you can.
Quote: EvenBobAnd would have happened when somebody
else was greedy, which was sure to happen.
It's oh so easy to sit here after all the facts
are known and figure the way you would have
played it. But when it was actually going on,
you have no idea when it will end, you're
playing in the dark. The impulse is to make
as much as you can as fast as you can.
Agreed. But a smarter person will do it as undetectable as possible.
Quote: EvenBobLike I said, we can have no idea how many
others were playing this glitch, so it had
an exp date. It's not about not getting caught,
it's about exploiting the glitch before it disappears.
I can assure you there were 2 others.
Quote: GWAEThere are 3 or 4 threads about this already. I even started one when I didn't realize there was already one.
Well, I looked up the one guys piano playing videos. Maybe that hasn't been in previous threads
; )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KIy0mQOUmI
I can appreciate what you're saying however it's blatantly obvious they shouldn't have reclaimed a jackpot on same exact hand back to back.Quote: EvenBobAnd would have happened when somebody
else was greedy, which was sure to happen.
It's oh so easy to sit here after all the facts
are known and figure the way you would have
played it. But when it was actually going on,
you have no idea when it will end, you're
playing in the dark. The impulse is to make
as much as you can as fast as you can.
It's obvious they made some very foolish mistakes.
Quote: IbeatyouracesAgreed. But a smarter person will do it as undetectable as possible.
All it takes is one idiot to screw it up
for everybody. Like him sitting at
one machine for 11 hand pays in
2 hours. People get lazy, you've
never been caught so you think you
never will be and you get careless.
Nobody's challenging this statement?Quote: GWAEI can assure you there were 2 others.
Ok. I'll do it.
Details???
GWAE's frugal hard working family man persona is perhaps a big ruse. Notice how many "vacations" he takes. ☺Quote: DJTeddyBearNobody's challenging this statement?
Ok. I'll do it.
Details???
Quote: AxelWolfGWAE's frugal hard working family man persona is perhaps a big ruse. Notice how many "vacations" he takes. ☺
Hey now, ruse it is not although I wish it was. But I did explain how much we spend on vacations. :-) miami in 9 days.
I am the only person I know that could do 4 vacations for under 3k total without a gambling win to offset.
Quote: DJTeddyBearNobody's challenging this statement?
Ok. I'll do it.
Details???
I have told this story before. Well at least parts of it. Quick synopsis without much detail. There were 2 other people doing it that may or may not have been part of his plot. They were questioned and charges never filed. Maybe they were given immunity, I don't know. My mother was an acquaintance of said person. Off the forum I could give more details but not in writing. After I told the story on here before I had 2 PMs sent to me by brand new members asking questions so I will leave it at the above.
Quote: WizardofnothingI personally had something like this happen/ I had to make a decision of how long it would last/ I decided to go full steam ahead for 72 hours and netted 127k before I was found/. Ironically I was not 86d from the casino
172k? No Proof? Didn't happen. See the 18 yo's thread.
was 127K, then 172K, next will be 721K...Quote: djatc172k? No Proof? Didn't happen. See the 18 yo's thread.
Quote: djatc172k? No Proof? Didn't happen. See the 18 yo's thread.
You're probably being facetious, but for those that don't get it, the chance of a glitch/promo explotiable for 100K+ is >>> the chance of seeing 18 yos in a row in a fair dice game.
For one - if I were to discover a glitch like this - I have no idea how I would handle it - whether I'd report it to a thankless slot host, or milk it for what it was worth.
But - if I did endeavor to milk this opportunity - I promise you, I would have told nobody.
And I certainly would avoid a hand pay - unless it was a deal where you could only do the glitch if it was a hand pay. And that may have been it. It's tough to tell from the article.
The other curious thing is that the first guy wanted to charge the second for letting him in on the secret. That was just crazy. And when they were squabbling - I was like - oh, now the second guy is going to rat him out. (he never did, I don't think. I'd have to re-read it.)
Quote: ukaserexThere were a lot of interesting things to me.
For one - if I were to discover a glitch like this - I have no idea how I would handle it - whether I'd report it to a thankless slot host, or milk it for what it was worth.
But - if I did endeavor to milk this opportunity - I promise you, I would have told nobody.
And I certainly would avoid a hand pay - unless it was a deal where you could only do the glitch if it was a hand pay. And that may have been it. It's tough to tell from the article.
The other curious thing is that the first guy wanted to charge the second for letting him in on the secret. That was just crazy. And when they were squabbling - I was like - oh, now the second guy is going to rat him out. (he never did, I don't think. I'd have to re-read it.)
He sold the glitch to someone who would use it in other states.
Quote: ukaserexThere were a lot of interesting things to me.
For one - if I were to discover a glitch like this - I have no idea how I would handle it - whether I'd report it to a thankless slot host, or milk it for what it was worth.
What about a third possibility, where there is no chance of jail. Work out a way to sell the exploit to the gaming industry.
Surely, anyone would agree this would be worth a good chunk of money. The question is, would they do it? (they really should) And can you work out an intermediate expert sworn to confidentiality to ensure for the industry this is actually a costly exploit if discovered.
Quote: rxwineWhat about a third possibility, where there is no chance of jail. Work out a way to sell the exploit to the gaming industry.
Surely, anyone would agree this would be worth a good chunk of money. The question is, would they do it? (they really should) And can you work out an intermediate expert sworn to confidentiality to ensure for the industry this is actually a costly exploit if discovered.
could that be considered extortion?
Quote: GWAEcould that be considered extortion?
Not sure. As long as no threat is actually stated or implied.
But I'm pretty sure they can figure it out.
Let's see, I contact a hotel chain and tell them I know of an expensive defect. I would like to make a deal to reveal it? Is that extortion at this point? I didn't manufacture the defect in either case, it's just knowledge on my part.
Is that extortion?
From what I've read, it sounds like the aggression was appropriate, but trying to claim other people's jackpots is what got them heated up. I think it's more a lack of education on casino procedures and financial/reporting regulations that did them in, not greed.
Quote: RomesYeah, there's several... but it's still an interesting read. It's especially an interesting read on what NOT TO DO. If you're "printing money" why on EARTH would you ever collect more than 1 jackpot from a casnio? Just hit this casino for $5k, hit the next for $5k, hit the next, and so on. Hell, just win $5k per week... that's already $260,000 per year.
They talked about this on the radio show too and Munchkin had a good ideas off the top of his head too.. such as paying someone $20 to ask for the double up to be turned on, then later you get on that machine. It's REALLY EASY to get away with ANYTHING legal or illegal in this world if you just put a few minutes of real thought in to it lol. No I'm not suggesting anyone do anything illegal =P.
Why would you ever settle for 260k/year with this bug? Also, sounds like it only worked at a few casinos, they needed the special software (specific gaming software is often only found in a couple states, IE the keno bug only worked in MS and a couple other places). I'd much rather try to hit it as hard as possible for a while and then go look for other places. Note that there are software bugs where the people involved made much larger scores than this, playing way more aggressively, and never had any legal issues stemming from it. Also, not sure if you've played anything similar to this, but the logistics are often a lot more complicated than "go to casino, get attendant to turn on feature, print money", and often involve hundreds of hours of scouting.
If I found this bug, made 130k over 6 months, found out that another team had figured it out and made 3 million and IGT sent out a software update, I'd be sick. Nothing lasts forever.
Quote: tongni
If I found this bug, made 130k over 6 months, found out that another team had figured it out and made 3 million and IGT sent out a software update, I'd be sick. Nothing lasts forever.
thats true, but its greed that makes you want to exploit it as fast as possible, I would rather make 130k and be safe over 3 million and be in jail
Quote: sabreYou're probably being facetious, but for those that don't get it, the chance of a glitch/promo explotiable for 100K+ is >>> the chance of seeing 18 yos in a row in a fair dice game.
Sorry Sabre. Are you stating that the chance of 18 yo's in a row could happen within reality?
Because here is a glitch that was exploitable where the people made over $100K in a single day.
http://nypost.com/2013/07/29/what-a-load-of-crap-gambler-wins-big-by-exploiting-a-software-glitch-at-aqueduct-resorts-world/
Gee, if the chance of that happening is greater than 18 yo's in a row, then maybe it did happen?
Seriously, are you basing your statement on actual math, because if so, you guys all owe Mendelson an apology.
I was going to comment on his statement as well but I was like why bother. I could just say it's happend many times but that's just words. I could start naming plays, but that's not something I feel is best for AP's(perhaps if the details are hidden it's ok).Quote: darkozSorry Sabre. Are you stating that the chance of 18 yo's in a row could happen within reality?
Because here is a glitch that was exploitable where the people made over $100K in a single day.
http://nypost.com/2013/07/29/what-a-load-of-crap-gambler-wins-big-by-exploiting-a-software-glitch-at-aqueduct-resorts-world/
Gee, if the chance of that happening is greater than 18 yo's in a row, then maybe it did happen?
Seriously, are you basing your statement on actual math, because if so, you guys all owe Mendelson an apology.
I'll make reference to one well published play online. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/online/4189-the-greatest-bonus-promotion-in-online-gambling-history/2/
The casino lost and paid over one million in a few hours. AP's took a big chunk of that.
Rumor-mill from 2015: Three people exploited a software glitch in a non-VP slot machine, hitting casinos for five figures each, seven figures before slot manufacturer shut down all the games. One person left the country. Two others bought a house, then Las Vegas casinos pressured IRS to jail them for tax evasion.Quote: Bondy3thats true, but its greed that makes you want to exploit it as fast as possible, I would rather make 130k and be safe over 3 million and be in jail
Unconfirmed since I haven't seen any of the three people since Oct 2014.
-----
Interesting questions:
(1) Whether or not to take advantage of a software glitch (e.g. do you want to leave the country, or be 86'ed from a lot of casinos)?
(2) Do you take advantage slowly or fast? May depend on whether your behavior will be obvious soon (e.g. do you make money so slowly that the machine's daily/weekly profitability is not noticeably affected) ... and whether other APs will learn what you are doing?
Personally, I enjoy playing in casinos, and would probably not use the glitch (like one guy who found a lottery ticket problem, and reported it rather than exploit it - story is online). However, I probably would not report the glitch.
If I'm really, really honest with myself, I would probably look for that same type machine at other casinos in the area.
But first - I'd have to determine how remote the chance of someone else discovering the glitch would be, and what denominations, etc.
Ultimately, I do not see how anyone could find a glitch, at least not in the games I play.
With slots - I typically only play the 3 reel double diamond.
one can either press the one credit button and then pull the arm, or press the one credit button and press spin or press the one credit button twice and pull the arm or hit spin or hit max spin. I don't think there are any other choices.
If there were some kind of thing were the last credit you played ALWAYS gave a cherry for two X the number of credits, It would have to happen to me at least four or five times before I even had a chance of catching on. And if I did, I think I'd run to make change for a hundred and check each denomination.
Beyond that, with VP, unless it has something to do with a double up, or tabbing out to a different game with a different pay table at a certain time, I cannot fathom what that glitch could be or how I'd reproduce it.
