Is VP in Canada real or VLT?

Mostly interested in British Columbia and Quebec, but is it real video poker up there?

It is real in Ontario so I would assume it is real in other provinces

Quote: vegas

It is real in Ontario so I would assume it is real in other provinces

This could be an expensive assumption;)

Thx though , I might go to Ontario

A few years ago it was real in DAWSON CREEK at least. But very limited amount of machines in that small place 4 all together

real in Alberta too

Who would want to go to Quebec not moi

Yes in BC. Not as sure about Quebec though, but I want to say yes. The big provinces I'm really skeptical about are Manitoba and Saskatchewan.

I would be very skeptical if the paytables would be "full pay" in BC and Quebec. None of those are reported in VPFree2.

The electronic pull-tab games that look like Video Poker are really an exception, not the rule. To my knowledge, they only exist in Washington State (tribal casinos) and New York lottery locations. In every other jurisdiction I'm aware of, Video Poker is based on a randomly-shuffled deck of cards. (Does anyone know of another that offers central-determinant VP games?)

Whether the paytables are any good is another question, but the game itself should behave as you'd expect. It'd be easy enough to test, though: get a small winning hand, throw it out, and see whether you magically get a replacement of equal value. A good way to do this is to wait until you have a winning two pair or 3-of-a-kind hand and throw away part (but not all) of the winning combination. E.g. 444KA, hold 44KA and throw away the 3rd 4. On the other hand, the help screens should (not will, but "should") give you enough detail to tell without betting.

Quote: MathExtremist

The electronic pull-tab games that look like Video Poker are really an exception, not the rule. To my knowledge, they only exist in Washington State (tribal casinos) and New York lottery locations. In every other jurisdiction I'm aware of, Video Poker is based on a randomly-shuffled deck of cards. (Does anyone know of another that offers central-determinant VP games?)

Whether the paytables are any good is another question, but the game itself should behave as you'd expect. It'd be easy enough to test, though: get a small winning hand, throw it out, and see whether you magically get a replacement of equal value. A good way to do this is to wait until you have a winning two pair or 3-of-a-kind hand and throw away part (but not all) of the winning combination. E.g. 444KA, hold 44KA and throw away the 3rd 4. On the other hand, the help screens should (not will, but "should") give you enough detail to tell without betting.

Indian casinos in Alabama have VP masked as electronic bingo as they don't have a class III compact with the state.

I know wheeling island in WV has both vlts and standard vp. The real vp is by well known manufacturers such as igt and have horrid paytables. The vlts are by manufacturers I've never seen before and have attractive paytables. If I recall, WV prohibits machines with payouts over 95%.

Quote: sabre

I know wheeling island in WV has both vlts and standard vp. The real vp is by well known manufacturers such as igt and have horrid paytables. The vlts are by manufacturers I've never seen before and have attractive paytables. If I recall, WV prohibits machines with payouts over 95%.

I'd like to hear from the resident expert on West Virginia gaming about this.

Quote: tringlomane

Indian casinos in Alabama have VP masked as electronic bingo as they don't have a class III compact with the state.

Thanks for the info, but I really hope you only stopped in once.
They will get better (pun) but it still needs some time to ferment. MOO

Quote: tringlomane

Indian casinos in Alabama have VP masked as electronic bingo as they don't have a class III compact with the state.

I think those are in Oklahoma too, and I apologize, I should have been clearer. Class II games don't exist outside the United States (or at least, they shouldn't) because they're a specific reaction to the section in IGRA that allows Native American tribes to offer electronic bingo games without a compact. Vis-a-vis the question about Canada, I was specifically referring to electronic pull-tab (finite pool) central determinant games. Those too were started by tribal gaming efforts but unlike the bingo-based versions, electronic pull-tab games are Class III (according to the District Court and upheld by the US Court of Appeals: "Without any doubt, the video pull-tab games clearly are facsimiles of games of chance and therefore are class III gaming.", see Cabazon v. NIGC, 827 F. Supp. 26 and 14 F.3d 633).

On the other hand, the video pull-tab version of Video Poker has been offered in at least the two jurisdictions I mentioned above. If the non-IGT West Virginia games operate that way, that's news to me. Can someone confirm?

Edit: Let me amend because I looked into this a few years back. The West Virginia code authorizing their "Limited Video Lottery" requires an RNG in each machine:
http://law.justia.com/codes/west-virginia/2012/chapter29/article22b/29-22b-909

So I'd be very surprised if the non-IGT games in West Virginia worked the same way as the VP games in Washington or New York.

Wow ME nice commentary about IGRA and the class II and class III gaming classification. I don't think I have seen many postings that are that accurate when it comes to IGRA and game classification. Very nice to see and thank you for being accurate.

tringlomane, you are definitely correct stating that Alabama offers only class II gaming but I think it would be more accurate to say that they offer bingo masked as VP. The programing behind the class II games is strictly bingo based and VP is definitely not. I am pretty sure the strategy used for VP would not work on the bingo games. I may be wrong on that but I know the player is limited in what decisions can be made on the bingo machines compared to what they can do on VP machines.

Edit: should have looked at MEs post regarding game play earlier in this thread, he already pointed out the difference between bingo and VP. My apologies.

Quote: waasnoday

Wow ME nice commentary about IGRA and the class II and class III gaming classification. I don't think I have seen many postings that are that accurate when it comes to IGRA and game classification. Very nice to see and thank you for being accurate.

tringlomane, you are definitely correct stating that Alabama offers only class II gaming but I think it would be more accurate to say that they offer bingo masked as VP. The programing behind the class II games is strictly bingo based and VP is definitely not. I am pretty sure the strategy used for VP would not work on the bingo games. I may be wrong on that but I know the player is limited in what decisions can be made on the bingo machines compared to what they can do on VP machines.

Edit: should have looked at MEs post regarding game play earlier in this thread, he already pointed out the difference between bingo and VP. My apologies.

I've played in BC, AB, ON, and QC. All VP is real.

Quote: boymimbo

I've played in BC, AB, ON, and QC. All VP is real.

Figured it would be that way in Canada. The class II bingo games as far as I know are only offered in the US by various tribal casinos and even some non-native casinos (Victory Land in Alabama?).

Quote: sabre

I know wheeling island in WV has both vlts and standard vp. The real vp is by well known manufacturers such as igt and have horrid paytables. The vlts are by manufacturers I've never seen before and have attractive paytables. If I recall, WV prohibits machines with payouts over 95%.

They do not have Class II games at WI. Further, the Game Kings to which you refer (bartops) also have games that pay well over 95%. The Spielo machines to which you refer are not Class II machines, they're just not common.

I agree that the statute says 95%, but I don't think it is enforced. To wit, one WV casino has UX, and there is no UX game in existence that pays less than 95%. In fact, that statute may just apply to the parlors.

Quote: Mission146

They do not have Class II games at WI. Further, the Game Kings to which you refer (bartops) also have games that pay well over 95%. The Spielo machines to which you refer are not Class II machines, they're just not common.

I agree that the statute says 95%, but I don't think it is enforced. To wit, one WV casino has UX, and there is no UX game in existence that pays less than 95%. In fact, that statute may just apply to the parlors.

Apparently Greenbrier is allowed to have slots/VP ranging from 80-99%.

Page 17, middle of left hand column.

http://www.wvlottery.com/assets/pdf/rules-regs/statutes/GreenbrierCasinoAct.pdf

Quote: sabre

I know wheeling island in WV has both vlts and standard vp. The real vp is by well known manufacturers such as igt and have horrid paytables. The vlts are by manufacturers I've never seen before and have attractive paytables. If I recall, WV prohibits machines with payouts over 95%.

Charles Town, WV:

Iirc there is a bank of 4-6 VP machines that have extremely bad pay tables, like McCarran bad (6-5). These machines were swamped with keno people, multi-game machines. I do not remember finding any of the vlt types (good pay tables).

Quote: MathExtremist

(according to the District Court and upheld by the US Court of Appeals: "Without any doubt, the video pull-tab games clearly are facsimiles of games of chance and therefore are class III gaming.", see Cabazon v. NIGA, 827 F. Supp. 26 and 14 F. 3d 633).

ME please don't put a space between F.3d when citing your district court cases. Minus 2 points and complete exercises 7-10 in your Bluebook by Tuesday pls

Thx for the responses , I guess I am a bit paranoid about those since in live in Washington state :)

Quote: teddys

ME please don't put a space between F.3d when citing your district court cases. Minus 2 points and complete exercises 7-10 in your Bluebook by Tuesday pls

I'm terrible at citations, I always have to get real attorneys to do them for me. I'll take the demerits as long as I get to skip the test on the definition of "abstract" w.r.t. 35 USC 101 in view of Alice v CLS Bank. :|

(Fixed, and also corrected re: NIGC vs NIGA, which is the trade association.)

California has fake VP near Berkeley at San Pablo Casinos. Hold every card when you get a bingo hit, and a magic wizard changes your cards to a good payout.