Ultimate X story: Opps?

So I was just at my local casino and I was vulturing some video poker. I walked to the ultimate X area and saw a machine with a "next hand 3x" on the screen. There was an old man sitting on the next the machine and he didn't seem to care about that free EV there at all. So I sat down and vultured that 3x.

Then, I looked for other games on the machine to vulture. While I was doing that, the old man was playing 10 hand 5 bets (10 bet triggers ultimate X). At one point, he grunted at a missed royal and left.

So I have a habit of always setting my ultimate X at 10 bet when I'm done. I think of it as wiping my ass after I'm done shitting. I almost never set the bet to 5, vulture, get amused at my profit and leave. I always set it to 10 bet because I think that's the way the game is supposed to be played, and I want other people to jump in on that and play the 10 bet and hopefully leave a multiplier for me. I think overall it's just being responsible, ethical, and considerate. It helps create an environment that is healthy for vulturing.

So as soon as the old man left, out of habit I reached over to his machine and pressed the bet to make it 10 (he was playing 5). I wasn't even done vulturing my own machine so I went back to looking right after pressing the 10 on the old man's machine. Shortly after, I found no more multipliers on my machine, and tried to move over to the old man's machine to vulture that, when I noticed there was still a $4.5 balance on the machine!

And then I saw the old man finishing up at the ATM and walking back to his machine. I was like OH SHIT. If he confronts me on why I touched his machine I would have literally no idea how to respond. I know there's no legal consequences because what I did was not illegal. That is, I changed the bet size but I did NOT make a bet with his money. However, I don't want to give away that I'm a vulture. If he were to ask me why I touched his screen and changed the bet, It's easy for me to say "I thought you were leaving", and it's true, but why change the bet if you're not even going to play on the machine? I just told you guys the real answer - habit developed for a more healthy vulture environment. But if he were to ask me about it, or god forbid, freak out and call security that someone else touched the screen that had his money and the security confronts me, I literally could not think of any excuse that I could use. I might have to plea the 5th.

So I just kept silent and was panicking inside on what to do if he freaks out. But the old man sat down and just... started playing! Looking at his facial expression and body language, he did not notice a thing. He kept playing on as if nothing changed. I left a few minutes later and came back about 20 minutes later - he was still playing 10 bets!

I just don't understand how someone can be betting twice their usual bet size without noticing. Furthermore, I can't even remotely comprehend how someone can see all the "2x 3x 7x" etc across the screen and not notice any difference. Let alone, the multipliers is the whole point of the game ultimate X. Well, at least his body language showed that he completely did not notice.

So a thought that I was curious and panicked about this whole time was:



That would have been a major "opps". I got off on a close one.

To give this story a happy ending, a bit later I returned to the machine and found the old man gone but he left me a generous $5 in multipliers. A bit later, I vultured another machine, got lucky and won $120.

It is the player's sole responsibility to confirm that credits are properly registered, payout tickets match expectation, and to select their desired wager before activating a game.


As for your "out" if confronted, "sorry, I didn't realize there were credits on the machine - I started looking around at it, to see if I wanted to play, before I noticed they were there."

Person left the machine. It is no one's responsibility but his to make credits are cashed out upon leaving....and the game he wants to play (with bet amount/denom) is selected upon sitting down.

Its "on" the player in this case. I would, however, suggest that you don't do that whole "setting to 10" thing anymore. At the end of the day, most people who play Ultimate X know how to play it with and without multipliers and they kind of fly by the seat of their pants to play it. Most who WANT to play with a multiplier will hit the max bet button (auto full hands @ 10 credits) or will quickly notice the lack of multiplier and adjust. Those that don't want to bet more credits, are usually pretty good at selecting their credit amount prior to betting. In reality, you might pick up one additional "play" every 10-15,000 times you set it to 10, and that is hardly worth the effort. The amount of collective time you've spent setting them "back up" for others, would likely have netted more +EV for you by getting "to the next play" over that amount of time.

Not to be a naysayer or anything, but this is, after all, my chosen profession. I did the same thing you did and left them on higher denoms all the time, but without fail, they'd hop on, stick their money in, and set it up for their game at their betting amount and go. Not much I could do to dissuade them without being in their lap about it. Also, take care to not "try" to do what "we do" in front of others, even regulars. Eventually they will pick up on it and your plays will start to diminish as they'll start playing them off x1 before they cash out. Unless you have a lot of competition for vulturing, I'd advise simply hanging back, waiting for a bank to clear, and then swiftly going through it all.

Quote: Exoter175

Not to be a naysayer or anything, but this is, after all, my chosen profession. I did the same thing you did and left them on higher denoms all the time, but without fail, they'd hop on, stick their money in, and set it up for their game at their betting amount and go. Not much I could do to dissuade them without being in their lap about it. Also, take care to not "try" to do what "we do" in front of others, even regulars. Eventually they will pick up on it and your plays will start to diminish as they'll start playing them off x1 before they cash out. Unless you have a lot of competition for vulturing, I'd advise simply hanging back, waiting for a bank to clear, and then swiftly going through it all.

Thanks for the great insight! Although, what do you make of the old man in my case today? He didn't even seem to notice the difference of having multipliers or not. If many people are like him, it could definitely be worthwhile to set everything to max.

I don't seem to have any competition here at all on vulturing. I usually go to a local casino. I've never seen any vultures nor has anyone remotely shown interest or suspicion when I vulture. There are usually plenty of left multipliers, sometimes even blatantly left on the screen. Based on all that, I am somewhat confident to say I'm probably the only vulture around. Is my casino the norm or the exception?

Incidentally, I've never seen a card counter here, ever, while playing blackjack. I wonder for this as well if it's rare for a casino to not have counters.

Quote: Neutrino

Thanks for the great insight! Although, what do you make of the old man in my case today? He didn't even seem to notice the difference of having multipliers or not. If many people are like him, it could definitely be worthwhile to set everything to max.

I don't seem to have any competition here at all on vulturing. I usually go to a local casino. I've never seen any vultures nor has anyone remotely shown interest or suspicion when I vulture. There are usually plenty of left multipliers, sometimes even blatantly left on the screen. Based on all that, I am somewhat confident to say I'm probably the only vulture around. Is my casino the norm or the exception?

Incidentally, I've never seen a card counter here, ever, while playing blackjack. I wonder for this as well if it's rare for a casino to not have counters.

I'm not a UX vultureing expert. If I'm near one or something Ill check a few but I usually give up looking and get on with what i'm doing. I have never spent much time looking, it's more of a fun novelty. If i'm out of town scouting and there seems to be a untouched venue I'll scour them to add value to the scouting. I have found good success doing that.

Some places I won't go near the UX machines (Usually places I know there's been a problem) because I would hate to have a problem for such little value and blow myself off (did I just say that?)on a better play.

I think setting your machine or ones you check back to 10 is a smart trick(perhaps not wise now). I definitely wouldn't go out of my way if I were you. If you continue, next time be more mindful, I doubt this situation will come up anytime soon. Your probably over thinking the situation (at least you're thinking) and panicked over nothing IMO. Also, you never intended to increase the old mans betting.

If you ever do get permanent competition and continue this tactic, either stop doing it or make sure they are doing half the dirty work and not just reaping the rewards without the extra risk.

I do wonder if any casino employees will read this and start looking for guys setting machines at ten. They may view it as intentionally tricking their customers into possibly betting more and giving up EV for YOU to earn extra money to pay your bills.
If I was a casino manager, I would be extra pissed at this tactic. Another example of why to much AP talk online can be a bad thing(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZQ7ZLy3MI).

PS. We have a UX thread.

Quote: Neutrino

Thanks for the great insight! Although, what do you make of the old man in my case today? He didn't even seem to notice the difference of having multipliers or not. If many people are like him, it could definitely be worthwhile to set everything to max.

I don't seem to have any competition here at all on vulturing. I usually go to a local casino. I've never seen any vultures nor has anyone remotely shown interest or suspicion when I vulture. There are usually plenty of left multipliers, sometimes even blatantly left on the screen. Based on all that, I am somewhat confident to say I'm probably the only vulture around. Is my casino the norm or the exception?

Incidentally, I've never seen a card counter here, ever, while playing blackjack. I wonder for this as well if it's rare for a casino to not have counters.

This situation is indeed a rare one, an exceptionally rare one. Either he noticed them and didn't mind, or he didn't notice them and just kept going. Either way, the majority of UX players KNOW what they are playing in terms of credits and usually play very specific games to their liking.

It is indeed RARE, EXCEPTIONALLY RARE, to have a casino that doesn't have "Hustlers" or "Vultures" picking off those X's. Either you live in a very remote, low population area (where this casino might be) or you might have a unicorn of a casino at your disposal. The other, more likely option, is that your casino does have a vulture or two or three, and you just haven't seen them yet. If that truly isn't the case, you're very, very lucky.

As for card counters, there aren't many of us left. Most of us are disguised very well, and a lot of us spend a lot of time away from the BJ tables unless under very specific conditions or scenarios. If your casino doesn't offer those conditions or scenarios, a card counter wouldn't likely spend his or her time there.

Quote: AxelWolf

I'm not a UX vultureing expert. If I'm near one or something Ill check a few but I usually give up looking and get on with what i'm doing. I have never spent much time looking, it's more of a fun novelty. If i'm out of town scouting and there seems to be a untouched venue I'll scour them to add value to the scouting. I have found good success doing that.

Some places I won't go near the UX machines (Usually places I know there's been a problem) because I would hate to have a problem for such little value and blow myself off (did I just say that?)on a better play.

I think setting your machine or ones you check back to 10 is a smart trick(perhaps not wise now). I definitely wouldn't go out of my way if I were you. If you continue, next time be more mindful, I doubt this situation will come up anytime soon. Your probably over thinking the situation (at least you're thinking) and panicked over nothing IMO. Also, you never intended to increase the old mans betting.

If you ever do get permanent competition and continue this tactic, either stop doing it or make sure they are doing half the dirty work and not just reaping the rewards without the extra risk.

I do wonder if any casino employees will read this and start looking for guys setting machines at ten. They may view it as intentionally tricking their customers into possibly betting more and giving up EV for YOU to earn extra money to pay your bills.
If I was a casino manager, I would be extra pissed at this tactic. Another example of why to much AP talk online can be a bad thing(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPZQ7ZLy3MI).

PS. We have a UX thread.

Unfortunately, I don't think there's a single casino manager in the country who cares, because the biggest concern they should have, are for the guys in heavily populated casino-centric areas, who lure in tourists to these machines to "load the box" and then talk them off of them onto another, so that their partner can swoop in and clear it out for $300-$400 average per machine. There's countless articles about this happening in Vegas all over the place. Setting the machines back to 10 is nothing negative for him or the casino, unless he's deliberately doing it to people while they are playing. At the end of the day, they want the patrons to spend more, so they wouldn't necessarily be pissed if he left it at 10. I intentionally leave my cleared machines at their highest value denomination for the very same reason, and tend to catch a few more plays this way, rather than the potential of a machine being left at 10, and it doesn't take me extra time out of my day to set it.

Slightly derailed note, Axel, why do yo uthin VUX'ing has such little value? Every single "play" is +EV to a large degree, and some of them have +EV's so high that most "Machine plays" will never dream of getting that high. I mean, I get it that in a place like Nevada with 2,000 ultimate x variant machines, there's a "vulture" or "hustler" for each machine and all, but it doesn't really detract from the value, and in many cases like the OP here, he might have stumbled into a place that could potentially be a $20-30/hr job if he had the time, patience, and discipline, depending solely on the # of machines and their rate of play and cashout.

Personally, it seems like most "machine AP's" that talk down on VUXers, tend to make less than the VUXers do, just my experience.

Quote: Neutrino

I don't seem to have any competition here at all on vulturing.
(...)
Incidentally, I've never seen a card counter here, ever, while playing blackjack. I wonder for this as well if it's rare for a casino to not have counters.

Not sure of your locale, but "locals" casinos may not offer games that are generally attractive to counters, and there just may not be enough vultures in your area for you to notice them.

Enjoy it. Or, be concerned that you'll stick out like a sore thumb once a manager gets a clue about what to look for.

"He might have stumbled on to something that could be a 20-30 dollar per hour job".
I can't speak for Axel but this is why i don't actively scout UX.Your time is better spent looking for good opportunities.
In some casinos vux can draw attention to you. The last thing you want is to be noticed by casino personnel.
Of course if you're a recreational player or if $20-30 per hour sounds good to you then by all means go for it.

Quote: Hunterhill

...I can't speak for Axel but this is why i don't actively scout UX.Your time is better spent looking for good opportunities...

This is all location dependant.

Yes if you already know a place doesn`t have anything else going on and or you have down time it`s a good way to kill time and make a little something.

Quote: AxelWolf

I do wonder if any casino employees will read this and start looking for guys setting machines at ten. They may view it as intentionally tricking their customers into possibly betting more and giving up EV for YOU to earn extra money to pay your bills.
If I was a casino manager, I would be extra pissed at this tactic.

I would not be upset if I was the slot director or casino manager. Now the player is playing double what they were before and the only real downside for the player is their last hand where they get up and walk away. The rest of the hands the player is getting full value.

Although I wouldn't be upset it would definitely draw unwanted attention to the AP.

Quote: Hunterhill

"He might have stumbled on to something that could be a 20-30 dollar per hour job".
I can't speak for Axel but this is why i don't actively scout UX.Your time is better spent looking for good opportunities.
In some casinos vux can draw attention to you. The last thing you want is to be noticed by casino personnel.
Of course if you're a recreational player or if $20-30 per hour sounds good to you then by all means go for it.

Not many of us (machine hustlers) are going to make more than $30/hr over the long haul of this, I'd know because I've been doing this for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears. If you think there's legitimate opportunities available to earn more, or that they are repetitive enough to counter the downswings of inactivity, I'm all ears, but don't be foolish in regards to VUXing, it is the absolute best, safest, and smallest BR required of all of the hustles, its just a long, monotonous grind that (like video poker) will result in lots of time spent making nothing, to then have that one "big one" hit to make it all worth it.

If that isn't your cup of tea, don't do it, and keep in mind I'm not suggesting that VUXing is worth 20-30/hr, because in most places it isn't. In most places its worth $5-8/hr because of the competition. That being said, however, if you're in a location where there is ZERO competition, the $/hr could be tremendous, but is dependent upon MANY variables, such as available denominations, base pay on the pay schedule, number of machines, number of players, etc. etc. etc.