Shockwave Poker Vulturing
September 18th, 2015 at 5:47:40 PM
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Today I discovered that Shockwave Poker is Vulturable. While just sitting and randomly looking at the various games on a machine, I selected ShP and the screen was flashing. As I looked at it, I noticed that the shockwave mode was still active and had 9 hands left. Unfortunately I couldn't hit the 4000 credit quads in the nine hands but it was a nice discovery on my own none the less. The paytable was 4000/500/4000/45/30/20/15/5/5. I plugged those numbers into the return calculator and came up with 285% return. My nine hands cost me $1 though on this nickel play but I'd jump on this anytime I'd find it.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 18th, 2015 at 5:59:54 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesToday I discovered that Shockwave Poker is Vulturable. While just sitting and randomly looking at the various games on a machine, I selected ShP and the screen was flashing. As I looked at it, I noticed that the shockwave mode was still active and had 9 hands left. Unfortunately I couldn't hit the 4000 credit quads in the nine hands but it was a nice discovery on my own none the less. The paytable was 4000/500/4000/45/30/20/15/5/5. I plugged those numbers into the return calculator and came up with 285% return. My nine hands cost me $1 though on this nickel play but I'd jump on this anytime I'd find it.
I would say in the last 15 years I have only seen one Shockwave left it that mode. Good catch, sorry it didn't work out.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
September 18th, 2015 at 6:03:39 PM
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Quote: DRichI would say in the last 15 years I have only seen one Shockwave left it that mode. Good catch, sorry it didn't work out.
I wasn't upset at losing a dollar lol. Just the fact that I found this out on my own was what I liked. I'm certain finding this play is going to be rare. And no, I've never read or knew about it before.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 18th, 2015 at 6:09:40 PM
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Like Drich I have only ever found one. To be fair, it's not something I really looked for unless I happen to be sitting on a machine that has that game. It's probably not worth hunting for.Quote: IbeatyouracesToday I discovered that Shockwave Poker is Vulturable. While just sitting and randomly looking at the various games on a machine, I selected ShP and the screen was flashing. As I looked at it, I noticed that the shockwave mode was still active and had 9 hands left. Unfortunately I couldn't hit the 4000 credit quads in the nine hands but it was a nice discovery on my own none the less. The paytable was 4000/500/4000/45/30/20/15/5/5. I plugged those numbers into the return calculator and came up with 285% return. My nine hands cost me $1 though on this nickel play but I'd jump on this anytime I'd find it.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 18th, 2015 at 6:51:32 PM
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I would say in all my years of casinos vulturing shockwave could not possible earn more the. 1 dollar an hour
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
September 18th, 2015 at 9:14:15 PM
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Quote: AxelWolf... It's probably not worth hunting for.
Agreed. The just finding the game is rare enough.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 18th, 2015 at 9:37:42 PM
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Is the shockwave bonus available at all denominations? In other words, if the previous player was playing 25-cents is the shockwave still active if you play nickels or dollars -- if this was a multi denomination machine?
September 18th, 2015 at 9:47:45 PM
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No, only on the denomination that hit the 4oak.
In all my years of playing Shockwave (probably my favorite VP), I have never seen a bonus round left open.
In all my years of playing Shockwave (probably my favorite VP), I have never seen a bonus round left open.
September 18th, 2015 at 9:49:20 PM
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That's a dream situation. You would just sit and play it on the lowest to highest spread you could find all day long.Quote: AlanMendelsonIs the shockwave bonus available at all denominations? In other words, if the previous player was playing 25-cents is the shockwave still active if you play nickels or dollars -- if this was a multi denomination machine?
If that were possible doing it on a machine that had a $5 denomination would be worth around 1k an hr.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 18th, 2015 at 9:53:33 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesAgreed. The just finding the game is rare enough.
I've seen quite a few casinos offer "Super Shockwave" on newer game kings, including a lot of CET properties. But yeah, a game left in shockwave mode should be quite rare.
September 18th, 2015 at 10:15:13 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneI've seen quite a few casinos offer "Super Shockwave" on newer game kings, including a lot of CET properties..
I have yet to see it. Will keep an eye out.
September 18th, 2015 at 10:31:49 PM
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Then to actually connect. What a long cycle of hours. You could go a lifetime without ever hitting one while searching.Quote: IbeatyouracesAgreed. The just finding the game is rare enough.
After the game first came out I believe they had a 99.5 version (don't quote me on that it's been years) Playing it was fun but with difficultly strategy, from what I remember. After you put in any time playing it. From then on you(I) always notice on other games when you hit what would've been a successful SW bonus. I though some versions gave you 14 hands?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 19th, 2015 at 12:05:11 AM
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Quote: rsactuaryNo, only on the denomination that hit the 4oak.
In all my years of playing Shockwave (probably my favorite VP), I have never seen a bonus round left open.
I've never played it until I stumbled upon the shockwave mode earlier.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 19th, 2015 at 9:00:03 AM
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I first played it back in 2000 and I've never seen 14 hands.. it's always been 10. On Super Shockwave you get to choose how many hands of a bonus round you want (the more hands, the less the payout, obvously). That might have a 14 hand option.
I've seen it at
Main Street Station (although the $1 version pays super sucky). ($1, $0.25, $0.10, $0.05).
California ($5, $2, $1, $0.50, $0.25)
Harrahs New Orleans (don't recall denom, but nothing below $0.25)
Gold Strike, Tunica ($0.25) - upstairs
Tables are typically 500 for straight flush, 50 for FH and 40 for straight. (although MSS $1 pays 35 for straight - I've asked them to change it and they ignore me)
I've seen it at
Main Street Station (although the $1 version pays super sucky). ($1, $0.25, $0.10, $0.05).
California ($5, $2, $1, $0.50, $0.25)
Harrahs New Orleans (don't recall denom, but nothing below $0.25)
Gold Strike, Tunica ($0.25) - upstairs
Tables are typically 500 for straight flush, 50 for FH and 40 for straight. (although MSS $1 pays 35 for straight - I've asked them to change it and they ignore me)
September 20th, 2015 at 2:00:58 PM
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Have a friend who found a quarter machine left in Shockwave and hit the 4000 coin quad. He has since hit a few quarter and dollar Shockwave quads while also getting a few royals on these machines. So, of course, he LOVES Shockwave!! I've never hit a Shockwave quad and HATE the game. Funny how that works!
September 20th, 2015 at 3:13:48 PM
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I played it once and had a close call. Got a quad and two hands later was dealt two pair. Held the wrong pair. The other pair would have been quads.
September 20th, 2015 at 3:46:27 PM
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Allen the other pair would not necessarily made quads- why do you think that ?
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September 20th, 2015 at 5:00:07 PM
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Quote: WizardofnothingAllen the other pair would not necessarily made quads- why do you think that ?
Why would it not?
September 20th, 2015 at 5:18:02 PM
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Quote: RSWhy would it not?
Timing.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
September 20th, 2015 at 5:18:30 PM
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Alan Mendelson, everybody.Quote: AlanMendelsonI played it once and had a close call. Got a quad and two hands later was dealt two pair. Held the wrong pair. The other pair would have been quads.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
September 20th, 2015 at 5:19:12 PM
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Apparently the cards are now "shuffling" until you hit draw so the timing would've been different and 2 different cards would've came up had he held the other pair.Quote: RSWhy would it not?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 20th, 2015 at 6:07:28 PM
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Because the machines continually shuffle until you hit draw so the timing would be different
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September 20th, 2015 at 7:32:19 PM
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All things being equal, the cards that were re-dealt would have been the same cards.
And no, cards are not "continuously shuffling". That'd be extremely taxing on the machines and would be completely idiotic programming practice. But, the current computer time is almost always used to generate RNG's, thus the cards. Actually, I don't know that, but I have absolutely no reason to believe they are "continuously shuffling".
And no, cards are not "continuously shuffling". That'd be extremely taxing on the machines and would be completely idiotic programming practice. But, the current computer time is almost always used to generate RNG's, thus the cards. Actually, I don't know that, but I have absolutely no reason to believe they are "continuously shuffling".
September 20th, 2015 at 7:41:19 PM
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I'm almost 50 percent sure that it depends when you hit the button and that it is not predetermined - maybe axel could weigh in on this
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September 20th, 2015 at 7:48:29 PM
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I agree.
And I'm almost 90% sure AlexWulf doesn't know. :)
And I'm almost 90% sure AlexWulf doesn't know. :)
September 20th, 2015 at 7:51:19 PM
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So who knows? I thought this has been discussed in here by the wizard himself
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September 20th, 2015 at 8:57:34 PM
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Quote: RScards are not "continuously shuffling".
(...)
the current computer time is almost always used to generate RNG's, thus the cards.
What's the effective difference for the player?
You hit the draw button at one moment, you get one set of cards.
You hit it at a different moment, you get a different set.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 21st, 2015 at 2:57:09 AM
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Quote: DieterWhat's the effective difference for the player?
You hit the draw button at one moment, you get one set of cards.
You hit it at a different moment, you get a different set.
There wouldn't be. Well, perhaps the machine would be hotter (ie: temperature, not "hot streak") if the cards were constantly shuffling.
September 21st, 2015 at 7:32:50 PM
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Quote: RSperhaps the machine would be hotter (ie: temperature, not "hot streak") if the cards were constantly shuffling.
Shuffling a deck once requires about 51 "swap" operations, plus RNG calculations. Assume that each swap and supporting RNG calculation takes 200 processor cycles (this is probably high).
1000 shuffles per second would require 51*200*1000 processor cycles - or a bit over 10 million cycles per second as idle load.
An older, turn of the century processor would probably have about 250 million cycles per second available. This would be about a 4% load for shuffling.
A modern 1 gigahertz processor (like you might find 4 of in a cell phone) has over a billion cycles per second available. This would be about a 1% processor load as idle - a 0.25% load when divided over 4 cores.
It would have to shuffle a lot to get hot.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 21st, 2015 at 8:13:47 PM
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September 21st, 2015 at 8:16:19 PM
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I expect a full written apology from rs- mad that I even doubted myself when I fully already knew this
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
September 22nd, 2015 at 6:35:50 AM
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Written in his blood.Quote: WizardofnothingI expect a full written apology from rs- mad that I even doubted myself when I fully already knew this
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 22nd, 2015 at 6:41:13 AM
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10000 percent agree
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
May 3rd, 2016 at 8:49:56 PM
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I am the biggest loser in history at vulturing Shockwave Bonuses. And I'm not exaggerating. I was planning to save this story for my book I write someday about my gambling exploits, but I'll share this one with you guys. You'll probably never believe this, but I'm going to tell it anyway.
I played full pay 12/8 shockwave for several years at a casino in the Quad Cities. They ran 2x pts every Monday night, which was worth 1% cb, so it was a decent play, especially factoring in drawings. I started out on $1 5-coin, but eventually built my bankroll up and played $1 20-coin in their high limit room. However, the machines also had $2 and $5 denominations. Even though I typically played $1, I always checked the other denominations before starting to play, not really expecting to find anything. One night, not only did I find machine left in Shockwave mode, but it was the $5 denomination. 20 coins bet. With 4 hands remaining. I almost fell off my chair! I was licking my chops at the thought of scooping up a $80k quad. Alas, no success. But then the story gets even stranger. I checked the next machine over, and that machine was also left in Shockwave mode on $5 with max coins bet. This one with 9 hands remaining! At this point, I was starting to suspect I was being set up on a TV prank show. I played it off anyway of course. Damn, a loser again. Net -987 on the 13 hands (after $13 in cashback).
Thus, I claim to be the biggest loser in history at Shockwave vulturing. I have found 3 others throughout the years, but also never a successful conversion.
Not looking for your sympathy though; I've been very successful at Shockwave over the years :) I managed a $2 20-coin Shockwave once, had a 3-Shockwave day once, and had a 2-royals & a Shockwave in one night. Although, anyone whose played any significant amount of Shockwave knows that with the good comes the bad; many sessions down a Shockwave-worth in 4 hrs.
I played full pay 12/8 shockwave for several years at a casino in the Quad Cities. They ran 2x pts every Monday night, which was worth 1% cb, so it was a decent play, especially factoring in drawings. I started out on $1 5-coin, but eventually built my bankroll up and played $1 20-coin in their high limit room. However, the machines also had $2 and $5 denominations. Even though I typically played $1, I always checked the other denominations before starting to play, not really expecting to find anything. One night, not only did I find machine left in Shockwave mode, but it was the $5 denomination. 20 coins bet. With 4 hands remaining. I almost fell off my chair! I was licking my chops at the thought of scooping up a $80k quad. Alas, no success. But then the story gets even stranger. I checked the next machine over, and that machine was also left in Shockwave mode on $5 with max coins bet. This one with 9 hands remaining! At this point, I was starting to suspect I was being set up on a TV prank show. I played it off anyway of course. Damn, a loser again. Net -987 on the 13 hands (after $13 in cashback).
Thus, I claim to be the biggest loser in history at Shockwave vulturing. I have found 3 others throughout the years, but also never a successful conversion.
Not looking for your sympathy though; I've been very successful at Shockwave over the years :) I managed a $2 20-coin Shockwave once, had a 3-Shockwave day once, and had a 2-royals & a Shockwave in one night. Although, anyone whose played any significant amount of Shockwave knows that with the good comes the bad; many sessions down a Shockwave-worth in 4 hrs.
May 3rd, 2016 at 9:29:33 PM
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I'm not sure in all the years I have checked - that this play is even worth 3 dollars an hour
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May 3rd, 2016 at 9:36:44 PM
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Quote: WizardofnothingI'm not sure in all the years I have checked - that this play is even worth 3 dollars an hour
Yeah. You'd first have to be in a location with a bunch of machines and regular players that are obviously not that bright. There's a lot of machines here and I don't even bother. I haven't even looked since I discovered that it's even possible to do this.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
May 3rd, 2016 at 9:40:49 PM
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Really wish someone would invent a 15 credit per line ux game where multipliers added up hand over hand
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May 4th, 2016 at 1:10:23 AM
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I'm not too convinced a machine's RNG is going 24/7/365. Seems like a hell of a waste of resources for the machine to be doing that. It'd be like a blackjack dealer standing at a dead table, just shuffling the cards over and over again until someone sat down. Makes no sense. It'd make 1000% more sense for the machine to get an RNG right when you hit deal/draw, but not when it's sitting there idle or in between hands.
How often is a machine even being played vs idle? I'd guess it sits completely idle at least 90% of the time.
How often is a machine even being played vs idle? I'd guess it sits completely idle at least 90% of the time.
May 4th, 2016 at 4:59:05 AM
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Quote: RSI'm not too convinced a machine's RNG is going 24/7/365. Seems like a hell of a waste of resources for the machine to be doing that.
Maybe it just goes when there are credits in the machine. Just a thought... don't really know the answer.
May 4th, 2016 at 5:04:06 AM
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In reality would it matter?
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May 4th, 2016 at 6:23:30 AM
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Quote: RSI'm not too convinced a machine's RNG is going 24/7/365. Seems like a hell of a waste of resources for the machine to be doing that. It'd be like a blackjack dealer standing at a dead table, just shuffling the cards over and over again until someone sat down. Makes no sense. It'd make 1000% more sense for the machine to get an RNG right when you hit deal/draw, but not when it's sitting there idle or in between hands.
How often is a machine even being played vs idle? I'd guess it sits completely idle at least 90% of the time.
The RNG is always cycling and the reason is because they don't want people to figure out what would be next. An RNG is just an algorithm so if you know the algorithm the next value is very predictable. By constantly running no one knows where it is at in the cycle.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:26:41 AM
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Quote: RSI'm not too convinced a machine's RNG is going 24/7/365. Seems like a hell of a waste of resources for the machine to be doing that.
I can't imagine an RNG is a big power drain. The big waste of resources is keeping the machine lit up and the screen on all that time. Casinos must run up huge power bills.
Variance giveth and variance taketh away.
May 4th, 2016 at 7:37:06 AM
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This won't make anyone a fortune, but reading this thread made me think of the one time, only once, that I looked at the IGT slot game Ring 'Em Up on a multi-game machine, and it was in "bonus mode" or turbo mode or whatever it's called. Yep, someone had hit the four bells in a diamond pattern and then either just left the machine or switched to another game. Talk about clueless, or Saturday-night drunk. When the game is in "mode" it makes a distinctive sound, and it took a second for it to register in my brain what I was looking at. I can't say that I will ever see this situation again if I live to be a hundred years old, but maybe it's worth always checking the game when it is in front of you anyway. Heck, what's way more likely is that you find one with a bonus banked that's large enough to be positive EV, but that's pretty rare in itself. Anyway, just sayin. It's possible.
'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.
May 4th, 2016 at 8:28:33 AM
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Quote: DRichThe RNG is always cycling and the reason is because they don't want people to figure out what would be next. An RNG is just an algorithm so if you know the algorithm the next value is very predictable. By constantly running no one knows where it is at in the cycle.
Didn't somebody take a video keno machine for thousands because it would always seed to a particular number when it powered up?
Anyway, an RNG running while idle is not new; if you know what a "bingo pinball" machine is, listen to one someday (there might be one at the Pinball Hall of Fame), even when it has been tilted (most, if not all, of them automatically tilt after a few minutes, presumably to prevent somebody from coming in and buying an extra ball onto the previously played game); you will hear a ticking sound coming from behind the backglass - this is the pre-silicon version of an RNG running (to determine what bonus features would be given when the next game starts) even when the game is idle.
If an RNG only generated numbers when needed, then quite a few slot and VP machines would be much easier to beat, as it was only a matter of time before their patterns were discovered. However, if it was constantly generating, say, 1 million numbers per second, then no one could know when the next number would hit.
