Poll

2 votes (7.69%)
16 votes (61.53%)
4 votes (15.38%)
3 votes (11.53%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (3.84%)

26 members have voted

beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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September 11th, 2015 at 8:19:24 PM permalink
Quote: JB

With Joker Poker the 2,869,685 hands boil down to 150,891 unique hands which is what my calculator analyzes.

For this game, I created an optimal strategy file containing these 150,891 unique hands and what cards should be held for that hand.

If anybody is interested, here is the link: apg-strategy.txt (3.77 MB) - you should right-click and Save As somewhere, then open it in your favorite text editor.


In the strategy file, the joker is indicated by a W with no suit.



Fantastic, JB. Thanks as always!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Neutrino
Neutrino
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September 11th, 2015 at 9:13:22 PM permalink
I found the site review on LCB for the aforementioned casino.

http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/casinos/diamond-world.html

LCB seems to rate this casino decently, however if you scroll to the bottom, there are about 20 player reviews, most of them rating the casino very negatively.

I'm not sure what to make of this.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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September 11th, 2015 at 10:04:42 PM permalink
Quote: Neutrino

I found the site review on LCB for the aforementioned casino.

http://www.latestcasinobonuses.com/casinos/diamond-world.html

LCB seems to rate this casino decently, however if you scroll to the bottom, there are about 20 player reviews, most of them rating the casino very negatively.

I'm not sure what to make of this.



I would guess not to expect a 205% return VP game.
rsactuary
rsactuary
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September 12th, 2015 at 2:38:30 AM permalink
It's really strange that this thread would show up now, because I just returned from a vacation in Germany, and one night with friends, we ventured out to experience a German casino. Their idea of a casino is very different from ours, and the one we went to was very hot and it was basically a hallway with 8 or so slot machines.. which metered your cash into a credit bank so that you didn't lose too much at one time.

We found this video poker game... I had no idea at the time we were playing that it was taking cash on the deal AND the draw.... and I can assure you it paid out only on the amount bet on the draw. The amount bet on the draw could differ if your bank went below the deal bet... so essentially you were betting all that you had left in the bank.

Wizard
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Wizard
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September 21st, 2015 at 5:07:15 AM permalink
Quote: rsactuary

We found this video poker game... I had no idea at the time we were playing that it was taking cash on the deal AND the draw....



Thanks! I should come up with a special term for this kind of game. I am heading to Germany soon and will look for it. Do you know what the rules specific anything about the royal flushes?

Here is a preview of another video poker game where the player pays for both the deal and draw. After your post, I may re-title it: Joker Poker (Wazdan Rules).
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 21st, 2015 at 7:33:53 AM permalink
Here is my analysis of the German pay table two posts above.

Hand Draw Net win Combinations Probability Return
Five of a kind No 999 111,299,760 0.000005 0.004526
Five of a kind Yes 998 2,136,956,580 0.000087 0.086804
Natural royal flush No 499 34,246,080 0.000001 0.000696
Wild royal flush No 499 171,230,400 0.000007 0.003478
Natural royal flush Yes 498 430,717,320 0.000018 0.008730
Wild royal flush Yes 498 2,047,256,640 0.000083 0.041497
Straight flush No 199 1,541,073,600 0.000063 0.012482
Straight flush Yes 198 14,793,436,020 0.000602 0.119220
Four of a kind No 49 - 0.000000 0.000000
Four of a kind Yes 48 201,160,452,240 0.008188 0.393006
Full house No 11 56,095,079,040 0.002283 0.025115
Full house Yes 10 200,079,366,300 0.008144 0.081436
Flush No 8 44,006,212,800 0.001791 0.014329
Flush Yes 7 260,199,539,160 0.010591 0.074134
Straight No 6 153,799,145,280 0.006260 0.037560
Straight Yes 5 228,436,655,040 0.009298 0.046489
Three of a kind No 4 - 0.000000 0.000000
Three of a kind Yes 3 2,899,689,705,000 0.118023 0.354069
Two pair No 2 1,057,792,919,040 0.043054 0.086108
Two pair Yes 1 1,396,955,264,760 0.056859 0.056859
Jacks or better No 0 - 0.000000 0.000000
Nothing No -1 8,910,693,031,680 0.362682 -0.362682
Jacks or better Yes -1 2,954,723,482,260 0.120263 -0.120263
Nothing Yes -2 6,183,968,452,200 0.251699 -0.503399
Total 24,568,865,521,200 1.000000 0.460193


So, a player advantage of 46% per initial bet!
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
teddys
teddys
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September 21st, 2015 at 7:41:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


So, a player advantage of 46% per initial bet!

Mickey Crimm just bought a plane ticket to Germany.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Romes
Romes
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September 21st, 2015 at 7:43:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

...So, a player advantage of 46% per initial bet!


Wouldn't the strategy be wildly different though? As in none of us who know JoB, deuces, etc strat could sit down and just play this game. I'd imagine you'd simply dump hands more often instead of drawing on like one high card, since you have to pay again to draw.

How does the analysis for the game posted above compare to the site previously listed in the thread?

Thanks for your analysis Mike, for some reason the double pay is a bit confusing up front =P.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
DRich
DRich
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September 21st, 2015 at 7:57:10 AM permalink
My assumption is the game in Germany is like other European AWP games that have a set pay back percentage and adjust the outcomes to meet the desired return. Not what we would consider a "fair" game.
Order from chaos
Wizard
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Wizard
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September 21st, 2015 at 8:40:42 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

Wouldn't the strategy be wildly different though? As in none of us who know JoB, deuces, etc strat could sit down and just play this game. I'd imagine you'd simply dump hands more often instead of drawing on like one high card, since you have to pay again to draw.

How does the analysis for the game posted above compare to the site previously listed in the thread?

Thanks for your analysis Mike, for some reason the double pay is a bit confusing up front =P.



You're welcome. Yes, the strategy would be very different than conventional video poker. JB posted a huge strategy file earlier in this thread for the Wazdan version.

Quote: DRich

My assumption is the game in Germany is like other European AWP games that have a set pay back percentage and adjust the outcomes to meet the desired return. Not what we would consider a "fair" game.



I don't know the gambling laws in Germany but that is my assumption too. Assuming it were fair, this game would get killed by a skilled player just going off common sense in terms of strategy. I also wonder if many the pays in the photo are for a get of greater than 100. In other words, a win on Jacks or Better of less than the wager. Can anybody translate the terms on the bottom of the machine. They look like:

geldspeicher
Punktespecher
Letzter Punke-Gewinn
Einsatz

Thank you.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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