Without Wheels video poker

As discussed in the thread Blackjack game with 0.75% player advantage, our own Romes found a video poker game that didn't recognize the poker rule that an ace can be low as well as high. In other words, A-2-3-4-5 is not a straight.

So I took the trouble to analyze such a game. You can see a full explanation of the game and odds in my new page on what I call Without Wheels. For those who aren't experts on poker terminology, the "wheel" is the A-2-3-4-5 straight. Hope you like my name for it.

As always, I welcome comments, questions, suggestions, and especially corrections.

Let's try to keep this thread focused this video poker game.

The question for the poll is would you play this game?

Even though it's on a possibly shady online casino, it's still better than most of the crud you find in casinos now a days.

Not a 100% sure if I'd play it. I'd have a hard time getting past not using the ace in the low straight.

If I were inclined to play video poker online, I'd play it - until I bumped into a wheel that didn't pay. Then I'd freak out as much as Romes did.

It's obvious from the on screen chat in Romes' screen shot that the support person he's chatting with is also surprised that the wheel didn't pay. Makes me wonder if a Steel Wheel would pay for the Straight Flush, or just the Flush.

Based on the chat, I assume it's a bug, and not intentional.

But that brings up a new question: Whether a bug or intentional is irrelevant. How much are you gonna trust that software now? For me? Not at all.


Linda, whom you quoted on the new page, seems clueless to the point where this problem should have been escalated to a supervisor.

As DJ said, that's clearly a bug, not an intentional design decision. As such, I personally wouldn't trust a single game on that platform.

Quote: sabre

As DJ said, that's clearly a bug, not an intentional design decision. As such, I personally wouldn't trust a single game on that platform.

This is actually incorrect. This also happened to other players after myself and they came back with the formal ruling that they do not count Ace as low and thus A-2-3-4-5 is not a straight, by their rules, not by a bug or glitch. So this is intentional. I find it false advertising because in JoB A-2-3-4-5 is a straight. If they want to have different rules, that's fine, but they should call the game "Without Wheels" then, which is a rather catchy name created by the Wiz =). They shouldn't be allowed to call it JoB.

They can still call it JoB - the same way that 6:5 is still called BJ.

The question is, do the rules state that a wheel is not a straight?

If not, THEN there's a problem...

I can't imagine a game being called something negative. What's next job 9/6 without a royal.

Quote: Romes

This is actually incorrect. This also happened to other players after myself and they came back with the formal ruling that they do not count Ace as low and thus A-2-3-4-5 is not a straight, by their rules, not by a bug or glitch. So this is intentional. I find it false advertising because in JoB A-2-3-4-5 is a straight. If they want to have different rules, that's fine, but they should call the game "Without Wheels" then, which is a rather catchy name created by the Wiz =). They shouldn't be allowed to call it JoB.

I agree. This is extremely similar to the wild not being wild on reel 1 problem (same casino, different thread). This is not only NOT disclosed anywhere on the site, the patently false statement is made that "this symbol is wild for all other symbols except bonus and scatter" (paraphrasing) which is a lie. So I find the non-acceptance of A2345 as a straight on JoB without disclosing that fact anywhere is beyond caveat emptor and into fraud.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I agree. This is extremely similar to the wild not being wild on reel 1 problem (same casino, different thread). This is not only NOT disclosed anywhere on the site, the patently false statement is made that "this symbol is wild for all other symbols except bonus and scatter" (paraphrasing) which is a lie. So I find the non-acceptance of A2345 as a straight on JoB without disclosing that fact anywhere is beyond caveat emptor and into fraud.

giving them the benefit of the doubt.. it just sounds like shoddy programming by someone who knows very little about casino games. It could also be that their "support" is also very shoddy and poorly trained that they will say anything to get you off the line/chat. Maybe the wiz can try to use his power and contact someone higher up to get the true ruling if this was intentional and why so? I'd love to hear that, because working for a software company myself.. I know just how crappy some support can be, and how they can assume an unintentional bug was put in by design and intentional.. just my two cents..

Quote: ajemeister

giving them the benefit of the doubt.. it just sounds like shoddy programming by someone who knows very little about casino games. It could also be that their "support" is also very shoddy and poorly trained that they will say anything to get you off the line/chat. Maybe the wiz can try to use his power and contact someone higher up to get the true ruling if this was intentional and why so? I'd love to hear that, because working for a software company myself.. I know just how crappy some support can be, and how they can assume an unintentional bug was put in by design and intentional.. just my two cents..

I though they got their software from an accredited site or something like that? Perhaps someone can explain that part.

If its a bug do they refund everyone's Money?

Quote: Wizard

For those who aren't experts on poker terminology, the "wheel" is the A-2-3-4-5 straight.

i am not a poker expert
but while playing Omaha HiLo (WSOP Event #3 May 28)
i been told by other players and dealers that 5-4-3-2-A is the Lo wheel.

Quote: Wizard

Hope you like my name for it.

yes, i say clever too

you have 3 kids under age of 17?
so you are then used to the phrase
"without wheels"

one of many teen's worst nightmares

now they have Uber, MAYbe not - need to be 18?
i do not know