Am I missing something? (Deuces Wild / Optimal Strategy Questions)

Hey folks, first post here. Did some searching and while there's an enormous wealth of information on this site (which is awesome, by the way) -- I couldn't find the exact info I was looking for and I figured my questions were particular (and maybe peculiar) enough to warrant their own thread. If not, I apologize.

Deuces Wild is my favorite video poker variant, simply because with wild cards it feels more exciting than JOB, but not as "risky" as some of the bonus variants of draw poker. I've spent many, many hours playing in brick & mortar casinos, with decent results, using Wizard of Odds Optimal Strategy, and I've been using this strategy for long enough that it's become second nature, which is nice. I can usually go to the casino, sit down at a machine, and leave a few hours later, either A) about even (+/- ~10% of that day's bankroll), or B) with a nice little profit, if I hit a wild royal or catch a 5 of a kind/straight flush here or there (+20-25% of that day's bankroll).

In the last few months I've been playing online quite a bit more. The transition wasn't too difficult or confusing because I'm already a regular NLHE player online, on several different networks. There are two major networks I play Deuces Wild on, and I've noticed a drastic difference between the two in terms of, to be frank, how quickly I lose my money. On one network, playing Deuces Wild is much like playing at the casino, with slightly less success (not full pay). On the other network, however, my money seems to dwindle at an incredible pace. I won't name names because I'm fairly certain the network in question is totally fair, but I'll explain what's causing me concern.

NETWORK X
Bankroll (for that session): $40 (enough for 160 deals, if I were to lose every hand)
Title of game: Deuces Wild
Denomination: 5 cents (played at 5 coin, 25 cent bet total)
Pay Structure: Nat. Royal - 4000 / 4 deuces - 500 / Deuces Royal - 150 / 5 of a kind - 80 / Straight Flush - 65 / 4 of a kind - 20 / Full House - 15 / Flush - 10 / Straight - 10 / 3 of a kind - 5

NETWORK Y
Bankroll (for that session): $40 (enough for 160 deals, if I were to lose every hand)
Title of game: Deuces Wild
Denomination: 5 cents (played at 5 coin, 25 cent bet total)
Pay Structure: Nat. Royal - 4000 / 4 deuces - 500 / Deuces Royal - 150 / 5 of a kind - 75 / Straight Flush - 50 / 4 of a kind - 20 / Full House - 15 / Flush - 10 / Straight - 10 / 3 of a kind - 5

Here's the strange part. Network X pays slightly better than Network Y (for 5 of a kind and straight flushes). Yet, I lose money MUCH quicker on Network X. Network Y "feels" normal. In 2 hours of play on Network Y, I might hit 2 straight flushes, a five of a kind if I'm lucky, and enough smaller hands (3 of a kind, straights, etc) to keep me going and end the session with at least 75% of my bankroll in tact. I'll break even or make a little profit, say, 1 in every 3 sessions.

On Network X, however, I can almost never make it an hour before my entire bankroll (for that session) is gone. I have not once broke even or made a tiny profit. The game seems to behave much more like a "tight" slot machine. I've been dealt 30 losing hands in a row before (yes, I've counted!). It's incredibly frustrating to be dealt a deuce or pair 10 hands in a row, and not even make 3 of a kind on even one of those hands. When I say it behaves like a slot machine, what I mean is that the way the cards are dealt doesn't seem to be truly random. I've had sessions where I've been dealt 3 or 4 cards to a nat. royal flush 5 TIMES in a row, without even hitting a flush or a straight after drawing. It feels like I'm intentionally being dealt "near misses".

I've since stopped playing on Network X (still play NLHE there, but no video poker). I'm content to stick with Network Y for my video poker sessions, but I'm still curious about the whole thing. If anyone has any insight it would be greatly appreciated. I understand variance can be a pain some times, but on X it just seems ridiculous.

Quote: crazydads

Hey folks, first post here. Did some searching and while there's an enormous wealth of information on this site (which is awesome, by the way) -- I couldn't find the exact info I was looking for and I figured my questions were particular (and maybe peculiar) enough to warrant their own thread. If not, I apologize.

Deuces Wild is my favorite video poker variant, simply because with wild cards it feels more exciting than JOB, but not as "risky" as some of the bonus variants of draw poker. I've spent many, many hours playing in brick & mortar casinos, with decent results, using Wizard of Odds Optimal Strategy, and I've been using this strategy for long enough that it's become second nature, which is nice. I can usually go to the casino, sit down at a machine, and leave a few hours later, either A) about even (+/- ~10% of that day's bankroll), or B) with a nice little profit, if I hit a wild royal or catch a 5 of a kind/straight flush here or there (+20-25% of that day's bankroll).

In the last few months I've been playing online quite a bit more. The transition wasn't too difficult or confusing because I'm already a regular NLHE player online, on several different networks. There are two major networks I play Deuces Wild on, and I've noticed a drastic difference between the two in terms of, to be frank, how quickly I lose my money. On one network, playing Deuces Wild is much like playing at the casino, with slightly less success (not full pay). On the other network, however, my money seems to dwindle at an incredible pace. I won't name names because I'm fairly certain the network in question is totally fair, but I'll explain what's causing me concern.

NETWORK X
Bankroll (for that session): $40 (enough for 160 deals, if I were to lose every hand)
Title of game: Deuces Wild
Denomination: 5 cents (played at 5 coin, 25 cent bet total)
Pay Structure: Nat. Royal - 4000 / 4 deuces - 500 / Deuces Royal - 150 / 5 of a kind - 80 / Straight Flush - 65 / 4 of a kind - 20 / Full House - 15 / Flush - 10 / Straight - 10 / 3 of a kind - 5

NETWORK Y
Bankroll (for that session): $40 (enough for 160 deals, if I were to lose every hand)
Title of game: Deuces Wild
Denomination: 5 cents (played at 5 coin, 25 cent bet total)
Pay Structure: Nat. Royal - 4000 / 4 deuces - 500 / Deuces Royal - 150 / 5 of a kind - 75 / Straight Flush - 50 / 4 of a kind - 20 / Full House - 15 / Flush - 10 / Straight - 10 / 3 of a kind - 5

Here's the strange part. Network X pays slightly better than Network Y (for 5 of a kind and straight flushes). Yet, I lose money MUCH quicker on Network X. Network Y "feels" normal. In 2 hours of play on Network Y, I might hit 2 straight flushes, a five of a kind if I'm lucky, and enough smaller hands (3 of a kind, straights, etc) to keep me going and end the session with at least 75% of my bankroll in tact. I'll break even or make a little profit, say, 1 in every 3 sessions.

On Network X, however, I can almost never make it an hour before my entire bankroll (for that session) is gone. I have not once broke even or made a tiny profit. The game seems to behave much more like a "tight" slot machine. I've been dealt 30 losing hands in a row before (yes, I've counted!). It's incredibly frustrating to be dealt a deuce or pair 10 hands in a row, and not even make 3 of a kind on even one of those hands. When I say it behaves like a slot machine, what I mean is that the way the cards are dealt doesn't seem to be truly random. I've had sessions where I've been dealt 3 or 4 cards to a nat. royal flush 5 TIMES in a row, without even hitting a flush or a straight after drawing. It feels like I'm intentionally being dealt "near misses".

I've since stopped playing on Network X (still play NLHE there, but no video poker). I'm content to stick with Network Y for my video poker sessions, but I'm still curious about the whole thing. If anyone has any insight it would be greatly appreciated. I understand variance can be a pain some times, but on X it just seems ridiculous.

Loosing 30 hands in a row on vp is ridiculous. Nevermind that for now, that paytable is horrible. Search around you can find much better. Some places (assuming its random) will even be a small +ev situation utilizing the bonuses properly.

Hi

I haven't read your post fully however Im assuming you are having issues with VP. Have a quick look at my post from yesterday regarding video blackjack and I will posting an update later today having experienced EXACTLY the same result this time directly in FRONT OF SLOT AND HOTEL management all who advised me after lengthy discussions in the morning that this would not happen. I hand recorded all my hands & results today and as per the suggestion of another reader I will video the machines in action this weekend. Be careful!

thanks