How much +EV for vulturing Ultimate X machines?
Quote: darthxaosHow do you vulture these without attracting attention by moving from machine to machine, especially cause most of these are bar tops so usually have a bartender sitting right there?
Bartenders care about their next break and when they get to leave for the day. They aren't watching ultimate x machines for people vultyring them ad long as you order a drink and tip. This is personal experience of checking an entire row of machines at a bar.
Usually the people you care seeing you play machines are other players. I would check machines there would be no reason to check to make them think I'm just an idiot. If casinos care, they'll remove or replace machines. Teams are another story but I have no experience with it. Causing disruptions and physical confrontations were when I've noticed casinos care. You just have to remember casinos always have an edge on slots and when a player wins, it's other players winnings. Even if a short term edge exists in casinos, there will always be more people tempted to visit than actual opportunities and it's free incentive to bring in people. Regardless, I believe casinos think negatively in planning stages and the day is becoming closer to becoming a reality, when they gamble, the house will not offer a single machine anyone will expect a theoretical short term edge. Most shooting for these will gamble winnings into negative EV but hey, mr bean counter anal retentive doesn't understand people.Quote: darthxaosHow do you vulture these without attracting attention by moving from machine to machine, especially cause most of these are bar tops so usually have a bartender sitting right there?
Is there a place that has a TEAM of UX players?
Quote: AxelWolfIn all the years I have heard or talked about it it was simply called credit hustling. How is the reference buffalo-hunting correlated with this? Why do I get the feeling this is related to a different state as a term used for also collecting other things in casinos like coupons or match plays.
I don't know why they say, "Buffalo-Hunting," I've just heard it called that. I don't personally call it anything except the more verbose, "Grabbing credits someone left behind."
TEAM as in how many? What am I missing? there barely seems like enough in one casino for 1 person to make it worth his or her time let a lone a TEAM of people, Elaborate please.Quote: IbeatyouracesLots of places
2 guys working a casino, I don't consider a team.
Is there a place that has a ton of them, and its well worth doing?
Quote: RSI can not imagine a team that focuses primarily on vulturing UTX existing. Not saying that a team wouldn't vulture UTX....but I don't see how that would be their main reason for entering a store.
At the place I play, there are constantly abandoned multipliers. Someone really dedicated might be able to pick up $2 in EV per night. Gotta love those nickel machines!
someone needs to come out with an app that's going to tell me when I'm going to brick on every one I find in a day so I can just play blackjack that day instead.Quote: djatcI did find a 2x multiplier on a nickel game today. I bricked it and made a pay pair on the non-multiplier line. Whoever is giving out advice for UX here owes me 25 cents.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceQuote: RSI can not imagine a team that focuses primarily on vulturing UTX existing. Not saying that a team wouldn't vulture UTX....but I don't see how that would be their main reason for entering a store.
At the place I play, there are constantly abandoned multipliers. Someone really dedicated might be able to pick up $2 in EV per night. Gotta love those nickel machines!
I'm not going to say how much EV I have, on average, at the unnamed place I go. It's more than that, though.
Quote: GWAEthat is an ABSOLUTE horrible thing to do. I mean really, you leave 1k left behind with no one to watch it. I have left money on a blackjack table and went to the bathroom. I would never even think about leaving chips on a real craps table or on a slot machine. My dad lost $40 in Vegas 2 years ago because he did that. He asked the lady next to him to watch his machine and went to the bathroom which was right next to where he was playing. When he came back she told him that as soon as he got up someone hit the cash out button and took his ticket. He called security and they basically told him tough luck. They got his info and told him they would look to see if the person was still there or if they could trace that person to a slot card. The security guard then told him that there are so many people in Vegas who do this for a living that they don't leave a trace behind.
I have left my money sitting on the rail of a craps table for years without a problem when going to the bathroom. The crew always used to throw a towel over it but now it is about 50/50 if the crew even bother with the towel.
Quote: kenarmanI have left my money sitting on the rail of a craps table for years without a problem when going to the bathroom. The crew always used to throw a towel over it but now it is about 50/50 if the crew even bother with the towel.
This is electronic Craps, though. This would be like leaving your credits in a slot machine during Bonus Games and hoping to get back before Bonus Games end.
Quote: 100xOdds
and yes, if the 7 or point is hit while I'm in the bathroom, a person can cash me out. obviously if I come back to $0, I call security.
cameras everywhere, etc, etc.
and presumbably, they know what the cashout ticket # is and block it from being cashed.
How long to get it into the system? Do you think the guy would take it to the cage as opposed to a ticket machine?
Maybe security catches him, I don't know, it seems like ticketing and waiting for a resolution or calling an employee over for a minute is a simpler solution than counting on security to catch someone.
I mean, the type of person who is going to jack 1K directly from someone else, not only knowingly, but without even the faintest hope of any plausible deniability is the type of person who (with that kind of score) would have no problem either never walking into a place again, or waiting a number of weeks. He's probably even smooth-talked a security guy into telling him whether they have facial recognition software or not, so he knows whether or not he can return.
Hell, he could even call and pretend to be you! He'll assume you told security, and he steals your card along with the ticket, calls later that day, "for an update," and sees if they have any idea about him or not. Borrows someone else's cell phone in an overabundance of caution, perhaps.
Quote: Mission146This is electronic Craps, though. This would be like leaving your credits in a slot machine during Bonus Games and hoping to get back before Bonus Games end.
unlike the slot bonus game which will end soon, theres a good chance the dice roll in craps wont be the point or a 7.
as for cashing out a $1000+ ticket -> at md live, you can only cash out a max of $600 at the ticket machines.
and when u hit the cashout button, it cashes out everything. you cant choose to cashout $599.
Quote: Mission146
I mean, the type of person who is going to jack 1K directly from someone else, not only knowingly, but without even the faintest hope of any plausible deniability is the type of person who (with that kind of score) would have no problem either never walking into a place again, or waiting a number of weeks. He's probably even smooth-talked a security guy into telling him whether they have facial recognition software or not, so he knows whether or not he can return.
Have to agree with Mission on this.
Those who dare to do it, have the capability to get away with it.
Casinos are full of predators.
Risking $1000 for nothing is not a good idea.
Quote: 100xOddsunlike the slot bonus game which will end soon, theres a good chance the dice roll in craps wont be the point or a 7.
as for cashing out a $1000+ ticket -> at md live, you can only cash out a max of $600 at the ticket machines.
and when u hit the cashout button, it cashes out everything. you cant choose to cashout $599.
Anywhere from 1 in 4 to close to 1 in 3? I'd hardly be comfortable with that...
I didn't realize those machines had a $600 Max Cash Out, I know many I have seen are more than that.
Still have to hope security gets them quickly enough. Do you leave $1,000 in your glovebox with the reasoning, "Chances are, nobody will break into my car in the next two hours?"
I'm not trying to be hard on you, I just think that is quite an amount to leave sitting there!
Quote: darthxaosHow do you vulture these without attracting attention by moving from machine to machine, especially cause most of these are bar tops so usually have a bartender sitting right there?
In my experience, the bartop machines are the least productive. Seems most people at them play one line at the lowest denomination. THey do this to get free drinks at the lowest possible cost.
Of course not. Most people who even hunt +EV will play -EV when they can't find them. It's not worth their risk and by the looks of things, you're likely to often be in the casino for almost nothing once you search.Quote: VPPlayerWhat is the casino's reaction to UX vulturing? Would they boot you if you are caught?
Depends on the place. Normally no. Has is happen? YES.Quote: VPPlayerWhat is the casino's reaction to UX vulturing? Would they boot you if you are caught?
Don't be blatant about it, thinking its all fine. Don't think you have the right to do it and walk around like you own the place. Keep low key or they might just start taking a more aggressive stance on the situation. People become complacent and lazy or have a IDGAF attitude and then the casinos react. Just the term vulturing alone in a bad term.
Quote: 21formeIn my experience, the bartop machines are the least productive. Seems most people at them play one line at the lowest denomination. THey do this to get free drinks at the lowest possible cost.
I have had mixed results. One night, I found multipliers on almost every machine at a bar. This was in a jurisdiction where free drinks were allowed, which is not everywhere, unfortunately. On average though, I think I have found less at the bar.
Quote: VPPlayerWhat is the casino's reaction to UX vulturing? Would they boot you if you are caught?
I'm sure they aren't huge fans, but I would think they would warn you usually before booting you. I've never been warned at all. The biggest cost to the casino is the freaking out/ticking off of other players. I've been called out by a couple of them.
Quote: 21formeIn my experience, the bartop machines are the least productive. Seems most people at them play one line at the lowest denomination. THey do this to get free drinks at the lowest possible cost.
Most of the time I agree, but there were a couple of places I could have made enough in EV to camp out there for a very long time.
People usually sit at the bar to drink and they don't care or know a lot about VP so they just pick what ever game.Quote: tringlomaneI have had mixed results. One night, I found multipliers on almost every machine at a bar. This was in a jurisdiction where free drinks were allowed, which is not everywhere, unfortunately. On average though, I think I have found less at the bar.
I'm sure they aren't huge fans, but I would think they would warn you usually before booting you. I've never been warned at all. The biggest cost to the casino is the freaking out/ticking off of other players. I've been called out by a couple of them.
Since most of the bar top machines are mutli games. its hard for a ploppie to actually get to the UX game and play because so many games are available. 1 out of x times they will play that game.
Its more likely when they do play at the bar they will leave a play behind. I don't think this makes up for the chances of them playing the UX.
You are way better off finding a place that has a few banks dedicated to UX. If a person is looking for UX to play at the bar or any place, chances are they will not leave behind a Multiplier, at least not a good one.
If you could somehow make bar machines always expose UX as the first choice, you would probably do well.
Quote: VPPlayerIf you see a machine with money left in it, you can't go up to the machine and cash out without getting in trouble. The question is whether or not a machine with UX credits left on it is viewed the same way.
Of course it is not. They are not credits and have no monetary value.
You are describing the same exact thing.Quote: VPPlayerIf you see a machine with money left in it, you can't go up to the machine and cash out without getting in trouble. The question is whether or not a machine with UX credits left on it is viewed the same way.
Quote: VPPlayerIf you see a machine with money left in it, you can't go up to the machine and cash out without getting in trouble.
Is this the "abandoned property" law, or casino policy? I seem to have heard frequently in the past discussions about people who hawk the credits forgotten in machines.
Quote: AxelWolfYou are describing the same exact thing.
sorry to fall back on a dubious ethical position, but how would you ever get caught on the latter? Even if the guy who left it that way ran back from the ATM and yelled at you, couldn't you claim ignorance?
Quote: chickenmanIs this the "abandoned property" law, or casino policy? I seem to have heard frequently in the past discussions about people who hawk the credits forgotten in machines.
this varies by state. It is ok in states that have a finders keepers law. In PA there is no such law so it is illegal to take abandoned credits.
As for UX, there is no such thing. It is ridiculous to even insinuate that there is such a rule. That would mean the next person that is legitimately playing the machine would not be allowed to use the multipliers. How about progressives, they were built up by the previous person. Under this assumption, you would not be able to play a progressive unless it was built by you.
There is one way for casino's to stop this vulturing but I am not going to say what that is.
I religiously check every game immediately upon arrival, and depending on the crowd, etc, often after that if I deem it warranted. Than, before leaving I make a final sweep. I know some of the regulars (on sight) who often leave multipliers, and change machines for luck, and do check the machines much more often when they are on the property playing.
Monday, Memorial Day, immediately upon arrival, I found a 10 play $2.00 game with all 2x - 4x (total was 27x) and whiffed. No pay at all. A second play, different game, on the same machine (total 9X) also yielded zero, for a very quick $200 loss on those two plays. Down $200 and only there a few minutes. Grrrr.
Maybe 10 minutes later, while completing my UX "patrol", I ended up with a W2G on a $0.25 10 play UX with found multipliers. (4X total) The hand was dealt. The attendant reminded me I 'forgot' to use my players club card. (I NEVER do on UX games) LOL
I'm not blaming you for believing this Pa. has done a good job convincing people it's the case. Read those signs again next time. If you search for the rightful owner and return the money to them if found, it's legal. People don't usually do this and admit guilt by being led into it.Quote: GWAEthis varies by state. It is ok in states that have a finders keepers law. In PA there is no such law so it is illegal to take abandoned credits.
As for UX, there is no such thing. It is ridiculous to even insinuate that there is such a rule. That would mean the next person that is legitimately playing the machine would not be allowed to use the multipliers. How about progressives, they were built up by the previous person. Under this assumption, you would not be able to play a progressive unless it was built by you.
There is one way for casino's to stop this vulturing but I am not going to say what that is.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI'm not blaming you for believing this Pa. has done a good job convincing people it's the case. Read those signs again next time. If you search for the rightful owner and return the money to them if found, it's legal. People don't usually do this and admit guilt by being led into it.
This is true outside of a highly surveilled area. If you find money in the street with no cameras then it is nearly impossible to find the owner of the money. Legally you still have to make a reasonable attempt to find the owner of the money. Some will argue that it is your responsibility to post an ad on telephone polls or run an ad in the newspaper saying that you have found something and if it is yours then call to claim it. That goes back to what is considered reasonable.
However, when you are in a casino or any play with a lot of cameras for that matter; it is your responsibility to attempt to locate the person whom lost the money. With all of the technology in the casino it is very easy for them to track down the individual. They can watch the camera and see who dropped it. They can trace that person throughout the casino. If they used a players card then they know exactly who it is. If they go to the garage they can get the plate number and contact them that way.
I'm also downloading page by page your 'advantage play' articles.
That said, I'd like to put a question out here about vulturing multi plays and whatnot. If no one wants to respond, that's cool, I understand.
I have read almost all the threads about multiplays and I've never found an explanation of 'finding' multiplays meaning physically in person, like walking around the casino. Are people walking away with credits left?
Are multiplyers built up somehow?
I've read where people stand behind other people waiting for something, or them to leave?
Perhaps there's another thread with a different title about the basics of multiplay ap.
Thanks for any input.
Quote: GWAE"However, when you are in a casino or any play with a lot of cameras for that matter; it is your responsibility to attempt to locate the person whom lost the money. y.
I'd disagree that it is your responsibility to find the owner directly if that's what you mean, but that's probably not what you meant. The safest thing imo if money or slip is found is to carry it in full view right to the cashiers window and state where and how you found it. Then you have put the responsibility into the casinos hands and you are clearly on camera handing it over to a cashier, who is now on camera taking it from you. It may not be a good idea to be walking around with a found item looking for a floor person, or even worst putting it into your pocket.
Not the first today.
Maybe the first today tacked onto a thread from 2014?
I hear 2014' can I hear 2013, done, I'm waiting for 2012, who wants to stand up and shout', done, I got me a 2012, going once, going twice......(you still got time to get your wagers in, Mike's got it all covered ;-)
Quote: TwoFeathersATLYet another apology.
Not the first today.
Maybe the first today tacked onto a thread from 2014?
I hear 2014' can I hear 2013, done, I'm waiting for 2012, who wants to stand up and shout', done, I got me a 2012, going once, going twice......(you still got time to get your wagers in, Mike's got it all covered ;-)
Actually that was meant for wizard, Zcore13l and mission and a few others that were posting when I was suspended. The format of the site screws me up as it doesn't link specific members...I should have quote linked to Mission himself properly.
It wasn't really to you or that other member...sorry.
You are forgiven, well by me anyway.
I already forgot what you did wrong, I'm rather absentminded. Happens to some of the best.
Also happens to us that are but part of the masses, like me ;-)
What was your point again?
Vulturing is tough. See that thinly feathered friend sitting just to your right? Or the obviously starving remnant of a bird on your left?Quote: standbymymanI used to vulture Red Rock, or TRY to vulture. Never saw anyone else vulturing, never found a multiplier, and very, very rarely found a game showing a used multiplier. Something strange going on there. It's like the multipliers are erased as soon as a slot card is pulled.
For a few bucks to the 'right' people you can get a carry permit.
You too can eat on vulture flesh, just subscribe to my website ( almost free, honeymooner specials available ).
Guns and bullets are extra but we got em at the best price you can find online. Cash in advance only...;-)
Quote: standbymymanI used to vulture Red Rock, or TRY to vulture. Never saw anyone else vulturing, never found a multiplier, and very, very rarely found a game showing a used multiplier. Something strange going on there. It's like the multipliers are erased as soon as a slot card is pulled.
I was at red rock last week and did see a few multipliers on nickels
Quote: standbymymanI used to vulture Red Rock, or TRY to vulture. Never saw anyone else vulturing, never found a multiplier, and very, very rarely found a game showing a used multiplier. Something strange going on there. It's like the multipliers are erased as soon as a slot card is pulled.
Most times I go to a station casino, I see at least one person vulturing. I found some cheap multipliers at GVR in February in a few minutes of looking. Problem with Stations casinos is there are a lot of machines to look at, and I feel like when the casino is not busy, they aren't often being played much. They are probably being vultured faster than the multipliers being generated.
Hence the statement, Vultures can't be choosy. Or sumptin like that ,-!Quote: tringlomaneMost times I go to a station casino, I see at least one person vulturing. I found some cheap multipliers at GVR in February in a few minutes of looking. Problem with Stations casinos is there are a lot of machines to look at, and I feel like when the casino is not busy, they aren't often being played much. They are probably being vultured faster than the multipliers being generated.
Quote: sammydvActually that was meant for wizard, Zcore13l and mission and a few others that were posting when I was suspended. The format of the site screws me up as it doesn't link specific members...I should have quote linked to Mission himself properly.
It wasn't really to you or that other member...sorry.
Apology accepted, no worries. I think I may have been the one to Suspend you, but unless that thread is still active, I doubt if I will even remember what for.
Quote: Mission146Apology accepted, no worries. I think I may have been the one to Suspend you, but unless that thread is still active, I doubt if I will even remember what for.
Thank you, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I hope to learn from my mistakes and improve.
If you have a moment, can you input a little on this question? Everyone is speaking in the past tense with vulturing, but not what creates the vulturing event itself. I don't know what to look for on the actual machines in the wild. How does one know theres multiplyiers available...?
Thank you.
" I have read almost all the threads about multiplays and I've never found an explanation of 'finding' multiplays meaning physically in person, like walking around the casino. Are people walking away with credits left?
Are multiplyers built up somehow?
I've read where people stand behind other people waiting for something, or them to leave?
Perhaps there's another thread with a different title about the basics of multiplay ap."
Other than vulturing, the best machine (2) was a 9-5 Jacks and a progressive Dbl Dbl Bonus.
