Vulturing 'Ultimate X'
You do know which ones I go to, I think... but we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about the multipliers always being used. I'm talking about them being WIPED ENTIRELY from the screen... as in you see 3 hands (on 3 play) with no used and no next hand multipliers... i.e. no little yellow messages near the hands.Quote: GWAEI am pretty sure I know which ones you go to and that is factually untrue. I would be curious as to your proof. PM me if you would like. There are 3 vultures that I know of at the one who camp there mostly all day. Maybe those people work for the casino? I doubt that would be the case but possibly. The machines certainly don't automatically wipe them.
Proof is easy. Go play a machine, get a multiplier for the next hand. Then sit at that machine and don't play for 30 minutes. Then go back in to the game you were on and the multiplier is gone.
Have you ever vultured at like 3am-4am after a BJ session? ALLLLL of the machines have NO used multipliers, as well as no next multipliers of course. I find it HARD to believe that all of the machines will have NO USED multipliers even.
Quote: RomesHave you ever vultured at like 3am-4am after a BJ session? ALLLLL of the machines have NO used multipliers, as well as no next multipliers of course. I find it HARD to believe that all of the machines will have NO USED multipliers even.
That's often the time a casino is doing a collection of the cash boxes. They open all the machines. Could it be a reset causing it?
Quote: rxwineThat's often the time a casino is doing a collection of the cash boxes. They open all the machines. Could it be a reset causing it?
This one does theirs in early morning but never over night. I do wonder though if it is possible that opening the machine at all could cause it.
Romes, to be honest there have been times where I am very surprised there are none at all. Like I said earlier there are definitely a group of vultures that sit there all day for the UX and Must hits. The one in particular will sit at a machine and play 1 cent per spin at a slot machine very slowly while watching the UX game. I guess that is his cover. He does have 279,000 points on his card last I saw so he must do it a lot. I also saw him pop off a 10k must hit recently.
Next time I am there I will try your theory about playing 1 and leaving multipliers, play another game, and see if they are still there. I am pretty sure they will be. My gut is I think you are underestimating the vultures of this place.
ETA: I just reread your post Romes and I think I misunderstood what you posted. You are saying there are no old multipliers showing on the screen. Not that there are no next multipliers. right? I am almost certain that if you press the lines button you can wipe those out. .You can cycle through and actually make it so the cards are all flipped over. It may still show the multipliers though. But yes that would be strange if they are deleted as well. As RX said maybe the changing of the cash boxes could wipe out the old ones but not the new ones?
As far as wiping next-hand multipliers, I have no idea.
Correct. That's funny the guy is there that much. I've taken my female friend and taught her strategy/vulturing which for a while she "loved" doing (before I taught her much more +EV things) so while we played BJ she'd vulture. She always seemed to find plays because the machines were active and busy.Quote: GWAE...I just reread your post Romes and I think I misunderstood what you posted. You are saying there are no old multipliers showing on the screen. Not that there are no next multipliers. right?...
There's 1 in the HL room, which used to be just LOADED all the time, but now whenever I've checked it (morning, evening, night) it's wiped entirely with no USED multipliers even. That's when I started noticing all of the others doing the same. I think they did a software update to wipe multipliers after X minutes.
My proof, I do personally have, but haven't recorded yet (haven't been around there in about 4 months). I personally saw used multipliers on a machine, and we made 1 last round before leaving then upon coming back she thought someone had played the machine we already checked, so we re-checked it (20-30 min later)... All the USED mults we saw earlier were gone too. No one was on the machine. That's how I know it's definitely the machine software wiping them.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to get the female teammate to waste 30 min of her time. Play for a multiplier, then don't touch the machine again for 30 min altogether. Don't just switch to another game and keep the machine active... Don't touch the machine at all for 30 min or so. Then check for your multiplier.
It has got to be illegal to wipe them.
This would make a bit more sense if they updated their software to this. I just find it odd that we also ALWAYS have found plays (and been going to this place for years) and suddenly not only do we find 0 but all the machines are wiped. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of other vultures GWAE is referring to, but to go from a plethora to 0 overnight with wiped machines just doesn't sit well with me.Quote: RSSome UX software wipes the used multiplier when you switch from one game type to another or even if you change the amount bet (even before you hit draw/deal).
As far as wiping next-hand multipliers, I have no idea.
Quote: RomesCorrect. That's funny the guy is there that much. I've taken my female friend and taught her strategy/vulturing which for a while she "loved" doing (before I taught her much more +EV things) so while we played BJ she'd vulture. She always seemed to find plays because the machines were active and busy.
There's 1 in the HL room, which used to be just LOADED all the time, but now whenever I've checked it (morning, evening, night) it's wiped entirely with no USED multipliers even. That's when I started noticing all of the others doing the same. I think they did a software update to wipe multipliers after X minutes.
My proof, I do personally have, but haven't recorded yet (haven't been around there in about 4 months). I personally saw used multipliers on a machine, and we made 1 last round before leaving then upon coming back she thought someone had played the machine we already checked, so we re-checked it (20-30 min later)... All the USED mults we saw earlier were gone too. No one was on the machine. That's how I know it's definitely the machine software wiping them.
Next time I'm out there I'll try to get the female teammate to waste 30 min of her time. Play for a multiplier, then don't touch the machine again for 30 min altogether. Don't just switch to another game and keep the machine active... Don't touch the machine at all for 30 min or so. Then check for your multiplier.
It has got to be illegal to wipe them.
This would make a bit more sense if they updated their software to this. I just find it odd that we also ALWAYS have found plays (and been going to this place for years) and suddenly not only do we find 0 but all the machines are wiped. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of other vultures GWAE is referring to, but to go from a plethora to 0 overnight with wiped machines just doesn't sit well with me.
FWIW, I agree it should be illegal, as that's part of the EV published with the state/authority for the game. However, I suspect it's the kind of illegal (assuming you can prove it's happening) that won't get corrected until a formal complaint is made, or even a lawsuit. Every day they get away with it is more profit.
I arrived at 4am. There were no multipliers anywhere. The HL one had no used multipliers as well. The 1 loan machine also had no used multipliers. I walked over to the other 5 machines and there were tons and tons of used multipliers but no next ones. As I was looking the cash box team came over and started pulling out chairs. I made small talk with one and said I would move. I asked if I could move to the other side or would they be there next. He said they already did the HL room and the other area.
While sitting there, without money in the machine I pressed the lines button and when you do that it cycles through the hands and flips the cards over. When it flips the cards over it erases the previous multipliers even though you didn't play a hand. I walked over and begrudgingly paid for a breakfast sandwich since my card wasn't working. After I ate and did some work I walked back over to the machines that they were changing the cash boxes on. It was perfect timing because they already did the group of 4 but the group of 2 was still waiting. I checked the group of 2 since I knew no one had played them in at least 45 minutes. I have been there for 45 minutes and no one was playing when I got there and all the previous multipliers were still there. I went over to the group that just had the cash boxes changed and all the previous ones were gone.
My guess is that the previous ones are in some sort of temp memory and anything that changes such as lines or opening the machine clears out the temp memory. With this trip I am confident that there is nothing fishy happening. The bastard in the HL room though only played each line at 2 credits. FML
Do you have any idea on this schedule? I know there's one main guy that'll sit and play that HL machine all night and load it up. He's sometimes in there Saturday afternoons too. I frequently check the HL machine around dinner time or a little after (like 7pm) and it's usually wiped at that time (as in no Next Hand OR Used mults on screen).
Lastly, are you saying you saw a "Next Hand" multiplier, and then 45 minutes later (when you're confident no one touched the machine at all) the multiplier was still there? I have a feeling it has to do with machine inactivity and not just game activity, but alas next time I'm out that way I'll run some more independent tests to confirm your results.
Again, thanks for the update.
DON'T LET THEM KNOW I USE IT. They think I'm unaware and unprotected!Quote: RSRomes and his tin foil hat....hehe
Quote: RomesThanks for the detailed breakdown GWAW. So changing the cash boxes definitely clears out used and next hand multipliers (which I still think is wrong to take them off the machine after people paid for them).
Do you have any idea on this schedule? I know there's one main guy that'll sit and play that HL machine all night and load it up. He's sometimes in there Saturday afternoons too. I frequently check the HL machine around dinner time or a little after (like 7pm) and it's usually wiped at that time (as in no Next Hand OR Used mults on screen).
Lastly, are you saying you saw a "Next Hand" multiplier, and then 45 minutes later (when you're confident no one touched the machine at all) the multiplier was still there? I have a feeling it has to do with machine inactivity and not just game activity, but alas next time I'm out that way I'll run some more independent tests to confirm your results.
Again, thanks for the update.
I don't want to put specifics about time schedule out there on the web but via PM I would be glad to share.
I did not leave any next hand multipliers on the machine during the change to see if they disappeared. I probably should have but I was annoyed that my card was not working.
Quote: RSRomes and his tin foil hat....hehe
tin foil is soooo 80s, get with the times.
In other words, I don't trust that you know what the hell you're doing GAWE.Quote: RomesI have a feeling it has to do with machine inactivity and not just game activity, but alas next time I'm out that way I'll run some more independent tests to confirm your results.
.
Sounds like a wagering opportunity.Quote: AxelWolfIn other words, I don't trust that you know what the hell you're doing GAWE.
Imagine. You get dealt a full house and they come to switch box and before you play the next hand the remove box- I'd be at gaming in two seconds flat I'll test it tomm when I'm here during the swirch
Quote: WizardofnothingRemoving the BOX DOES NOT CLEAR THEM/ sheesh
Imagine. You get dealt a full house and they come to switch box and before you play the next hand the remove box- I'd be at gaming in two seconds flat I'll test it tomm when I'm here during the swirch
Although I've never been playing UX when they come to change the boxes, when I was close to a bonus hitting, and pointed it out, they let me finish it out.
They may look annoyed if you don't get up soon, but I've never been thrown off as long as I gave them a good reason why I was playing a few more minutes on a game. That's been my experience anyway.
Quote: WizardofnothingRemoving the BOX DOES NOT CLEAR THEM/ sheesh
Imagine. You get dealt a full house and they come to switch box and before you play the next hand the remove box- I'd be at gaming in two seconds flat I'll test it tomm when I'm here during the swirch
I didn't say it removed unused, it removed the used ones that showed what happened last hand.
Quote: WizardofnothingJust tested - see picture below/ so not sure why anyone thinks the multipliers disappear when playing 1 Line off
Not sure why anyone would think that as well. It would obviously play off the bottom line but not any others.
Here's a bit more of the story... So you know where I'm talking about... Well the other shop 30 min from there is where I first noticed it. There's only like 5 machines but they got a lot of action, but whenever I saw the machine empty to check I wouldn't even find used mults (even though these were quite active machines). This was NEVER the case at the original place we're discussing. Then after years of play it switched and I started noticing it was like the 2nd place, where the machines would be 'wiped.'Quote: GWAEI didn't say it removed unused, it removed the used ones that showed what happened last hand.
I'm still quite eager to get a next hand mult, leave my card in, put the chair up, and flail the next machine over for 30 min (or so) just to see what happens.
The only half explanation at this point is that the vultures you know of (that are very active) use up all the mults and then the cash box changes come around and wipe the used ones, giving the appearance of a "reset" machine.
Quote: WizardofnothingJust tested - see picture below/ so not sure why anyone thinks the multipliers disappear when playing 1 Line off
still waiting for pic :)
https://imgur.com/BNkhLpl
Then
https://imgur.com/a/jGvme
Then
https://imgur.com/a/YMuGk
Then.
https://imgur.com/a/4M5UQ
Still doesn't account for the middle of the day/evening "wipes" where the machine has literally nothing on it at 7pm. I mean, how often do they change the cash boxes on these? I've only EVER seen them do it at night. Trying to tell me no one played the machines ALL DAY? This is a high traffic UltX place. I don't buy that for one second.Quote: WizardofnothingThat's more likely the issue
Next Hand multipliers.Quote: IbeatyouracesAre you talking about "next hand" ones or ones already played? Most newer machines, especially bar tops, will delete used multipliers when switching games. I've never seen a next hand one deleted.
Quote: RomesStill doesn't account for the middle of the day/evening "wipes" where the machine has literally nothing on it at 7pm. I mean, how often do they change the cash boxes on these? I've only EVER seen them do it at night. Trying to tell me no one played the machines ALL DAY? This is a high traffic UltX place. I don't buy that for one second.
So you are saying it just doesn't make sense to you that there are no next hand multipliers at 7pm. - I'm not sure what the issue is prolly people swoop in and your are late. If almost bet money that the next hand multipliers are not wiped off
could it be a hustler doing it? After he checks all the games he wipes them?Quote: RomesNext Hand multipliers.
No next hand NOR used multipliers at 7pm...Quote: WizardofnothingSo you are saying it just doesn't make sense to you that there are no next hand multipliers at 7pm. - I'm not sure what the issue is prolly people swoop in and your are late. If almost bet money that the next hand multipliers are not wiped off
I suppose? Seems like an awful amount of work for nothing more than to confuse me until I personally check the machine the next time I'm out there. Then again, it's probably you Axel... Probably literally doing it just to confuse me. Yep, plane tickets and all I bet you still consider it "worth it."Quote: AxelWolfcould it be a hustler doing it? After he checks all the games he wipes them?
It's not like the other store where I posted pictures of "someone" burning multipliers by playing 1 line 1 credit and letting them all go to waste. This is a different store and different problem =P.
They are checking them anyway. It's not that much extra work, perhaps they are marking them so they can tell if someone has played them since they last checked. Or they want guys like you to think exactly what you were thinking so they have the place to themselves.Quote: RomesNo next hand NOR used multipliers at 7pm...
I suppose? Seems like an awful amount of work for nothing more than to confuse me until I personally check the machine the next time I'm out there. Then again, it's probably you Axel... Probably literally doing it just to confuse me. Yep, plane tickets and all I bet you still consider it "worth it."
It's not like the other store where I posted pictures of "someone" burning multipliers by playing 1 line 1 credit and letting them all go to waste. This is a different store and different problem =P.
Quote: AxelWolfThey are checking them anyway. It's not that much extra work, perhaps they are marking them so they can tell if someone has played them since they last checked. Or they want guys like you to think exactly what you were thinking so they have the place to themselves.
yep, there is one person that sets the machine a certain way for sure.
Quote: WizardofnothingNot sure why I even wasted time doing this I was 100 percent sure it wasn't the case
https://imgur.com/BNkhLpl
Then
https://imgur.com/a/jGvme
Then
https://imgur.com/a/YMuGk
Then.
https://imgur.com/a/4M5UQ
Machines in Las Vegas work differently. One credit one line wipes all the next-hand multipliers.
Quote: GWAEyep, there is one person that sets the machine a certain way for sure.
Yeah, I think some people might set it that way too in Missouri. Just depends. Just one extra button touch, no?
Quote: RSMachines in Las Vegas work differently. One credit one line wipes all the next-hand multipliers.
Really?? Maybe it's not against the law in NV, but this is definitely not the way it works in Missouri. As I have found a handful, usually love it too because they are mostly higher denominations. I don't recall if I've ever found a "greyed out" next hand multiplier in Vegas though, but I only sporadically look there.
Quote: SamhainI know I'm not cheating, but in the eyes of the casino what's the worst that can happen? Has anyone ever been approached by staff and been told to stop, or leave?
I have been told to stop once by Harrah's Joliet. They said it was their house policy not to allow the "game to be played in a manner it wasn't meant to be played". They probably never heard the word "vulture". I said that was unfortunate because of all the casinos I've bothered to vulture, I had been luckier there overall at the time than anywhere else. That particular night I was up $130 and got my only dealt quad ever vulturing.
(ie: 3x on 2 of the hands on a 3play machine)
but would you play 10coins till you no longer have an avg of 2x on every line?
or vulture (5coins) and take the massive +EV?
edit:
10 coins in the hopes of getting a high multiplier (8x, 11x, 12x) in the next hand.
goal = hitting a big hand with a big multiplier (ie: Holy Grail -> 12x Royal)
Quote: 100xOddsavg of 2x multiplier on every line = +EV even if you play 10coins
(ie: 11x on 1 of the hands on a 5play machine)
but would you play 10coins till you no longer have an avg of 2x on every line?
or vulture (5coins) and take the massive +EV?
10-coining UX, even with a single 2x multiplier, is still +EV. It's just that a lot of the EV is tied up in the next hand.
Quote: WizardofnothingIt's plus ev but in reality is not as plus as just playing it straight up so why give up ev, it's like finding a dollar on the street and dropping a quarter still ev but why?
10 coins in the hopes of getting a high multiplier (8x, 11x, 12x) in the next hand.
goal = hitting a big hand with a big multiplier (ie: Holy Grail -> 12x Royal)
(edited my post above.)
Quote: RS10-coining UX, even with a single 2x multiplier, is still +EV. It's just that a lot of the EV is tied up in the next hand.
so if you find a machine with even a single 2x multiplier, keep playing 10coins till you no longer have a multiplier???
i don't know the math on that but my gut tells me that's not +EV?
