Multi-hand machines

I like to play Deuces Wild, and lately I've been playing several multi-hand variations online (some of which I've played before at casinos). I've been focusing on two: the straight up multi-hand like ten play or fifty play, and the multi-strike by Leading Edge.

The former is easy to explain (and someone please correct me if I'm worng). Your'e dealt one hand from one deck, you choose which cards to hold and hit draw. The cards you hold are retained in every other hand, but each hand, as I understand, its completed on the draw with its own deck. That means the 50 play uses 50 decks. Of course the bet is per hand, too. So if you bet five coins on all fifty hands (you can choose as many or as few hands as you want), the bet per turn is 250.

Now, if you're lucky and are dealt a good hand, say 2 deuces and three discards (garbage), you are already assured you'll break even, as every one of the 50 hands will hold those 2 deuces, therefore the least you'll get is 3 of a kind in each hand (usually you'll get more in some hands).

Of course if you're dealt five assorted cards which make up nothing, you just dunp them and each drawn hand will be random 5 cards. Given the large number of hands, some return is to be expected, but not assured.

In the online simulation I've noticed I win something in every turn, but usually not enough to cover the 250 bet, much less to win anything. And naturally at 250 per bet, your money runs out that much faster.

What are the odds of being dealt 4 deuces in the starting hand? I know, the same as being dealt any other four of a kind. If you got that hand, you'd get a 1,000 coin payoff in each hand (according to the paytable at the site), or 50,000 credits. If you were playing nickels per coin, that's $2,500.

That's the excitement.

More on the multi-strike later. I am supposed to be working ;)

Back to work! (me too).

The multi-hand games you play basic strategy meaning that you hold the cards just like you would in regular deuces wild, accounting for the differences in the pay tables from a full pay machine. Multi-hand games usually have pay tables that are much less generous than the full pay tables because you are playing at a much lower denomination and you are not forced to play all 50 or 100 hands.

With multi-strike (which admittedly is one of my favorite 'guilty' pleasures, make sure that you read Bob Dancer's article on the subject.

Quote: Bob Dancer

To practice normal 9/6 Jacks on a computer, on a 1-coin basis we enter a pay schedule of 800-50-25-9-6-4-3-2-1, which is the default. To practice Level 1 strategy, add six to each of these numbers. That is, practice with a pay schedule of 806-56-31-15-12-10-9-8-7. To practice Level 2 strategy, add 4 the starting numbers. To practice Level 3 strategy, add 2 to the starting numbers. These numbers are an approximation and they differ slightly by game and pay schedule, but they are very close. For example, the precise numbers to be added for 9/6 Jacks are 5.94, 3.96, and 1.99 rather than the 6, 4, and 2 I gave you

The strategy is essentially to make sure you get winning hands at the lowest levels no matter what the payoff is with exception of the four deuces. The goal is to be able to work up to the highest level of the game (8x), so you need to skew expected values in favor of a win. For example, on the lowest level, I would always keep a pair over two pair because while the full house might have a better EV, you're more likely to make a hand with a single pair. The goal of the bottom two levels, in my opinion, is to simply make a hand. When you get to the 4x and 8x levels, you start thinking about basic strategy a bit more. The top level you always play basic strategy.

Quote: boymimbo

Back to work! (me too).

Luckily I've escaped the salt mines til Monday...
Anyway, I got nothing more to add, except the description of Multi-strike:

You choose how many hands to play and how much to bet. In the full five play type you can pay for up to 20 hands, that's five hands on each of four levels. The thing is you have to win something on one level to move to the next. Each level has a higher multiplier than the previous one. The four levels are 1X, 2X, 4X and 8X.

Ok, if you win one hand on level 1X, you play one hand on level 2x, and so on. That's the problem: you pay for hands you may not get to play. there's a "free ride" feature, which allows you to play the next level even if you lose.

Overall I think multi strike is a bad bet, but it's fun and exciting.

You can check it out online at: http://www.ledgaming.com/LED_Home/html/index.shtml

And for multi-hand games like 50 play try: http://www.videopoker.com/play_games/

Thanks for the websites, Nareed! I forsee a lot of wasted time in my near future ... oh, no :(

I like to play multi-hand games, too. My favorites are 5 and 10-play Jacks or Better with the good paytable. The problem is if you are not getting the dealt hands you can blow through your bankroll really quickly. That's why I set a loss limit, usually $400 for .25 10-play.

BTW, my highest payoff on these machines was a dealt 4oak, which I have gotten once or twice. $312.25 payout. I am still way behind on these machines :(. It's fun to fantasize about the dealt RF ($10,000!), but realistically that will never happen. (Not sure of the odds, anyone know?). I do think these games offer a better entertainment value than the $2 single-line games with max bet.

You can usually find good paytables and promotions at Palms and Ellis Island.

To answer the two probability questions:

The probability of being dealt Four Deuces in Deuces Wild (or any other game that uses a 52-card deck) is 1 in 54,145 = 0.00185%

The probability of being dealt a Royal Flush in a game that uses a 52-card deck is 1 in 649,740 = 0.0001539%

I like the multi-hand games too. Here's why.

I play 98% DDB most of the time, and also 99% pay Dueces. My local casinos have 3 and 5 multi-hand machines with these paytables.

With the DDB game, you have roughly a 1 in 400 chance of drawing a Quad or better. Granted, the 5 - K Quad is the most likely of these. Nonetheless, on a 5-hand machine you only require 80 plays to draw 400 hands. You can do this in a relatively short amount of time. As such, it is reasonable to assume a quad may be drawn during such a session, and that has been my experience. I tend to play minimum coinage early in the 80-play cycle. As with the example of drawing 4 dueces above, if you get your Quad on the initial draw, you realize a substantial multiplier effect. I've had this happen several times recently. Seems to work.

Quote: teddys

The problem is if you are not getting the dealt hands you can blow through your bankroll really quickly. That's why I set a loss limit, usually $400 for .25 10-play.

Good thinking. I've been playing 50- and 100-hand deuces wild these past few days at the sites I mentioned. I haven't had the patience to burn through the virtual bankroll, but only because it's extremely generous (10,000) credits. I have driven it down to under 5,000 creds, though, in no time flat.

BTW on five ocassions I've been dealt a straight with two deuces in them. If you keep that hand, you get a straight in every hand, naturally, so it gives you double your wager. Three times I kept the two deuces and dumped everuthing else, and those times I won more than double the wager.

It's not a formal study or anything, but it would seem the way to bet in multiplay. In single line play I'd keep a straight with 2 deuces. I'm thinking that's wrong, too.

Quote: teddys

You can usually find good paytables and promotions at Palms and Ellis Island.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

Whatever else I do this trip, I'm taking a copy of full-pay tables with me. Probably also the Wizard's Craps and BJ surveys.

Nareed,

You follow the same strategies for deuces wild on the multiplay as you would for a regular hand, adjusting for the pay table. In a hand with two deuces vs a straight (with two decues), the EV for the straight is 2, while the EV for two deuces is at least 3.03 (depending on the machine). So on a 50 credit machine, you make a 50 credit mistake by keeping the straight. In fact, the only time you would keep ANYTHING with two deuces is (1) a full house that pays 4 credits, (2) four of a kind or higher, (3) four to a straight flush where the two cards are together (4) four to a wild royal flush.

Thanks. I find it useful, not to mention economical, to discover all likely mistakes on a free game on the net.

Quote: Nareed

Thanks. I'll look them up.

Whatever else I do this trip, I'm taking a copy of full-pay tables with me. Probably also the Wizard's Craps and BJ surveys.

Yep. If you even want to meet up at Palms (I think our trips overlap), I'm staying there and can point out the plays in person. I may even provide a Deuces Wild tutorial for a fellow WoV member ...

Incidentally, anyone else going to be in Vegas May 8-11? Was thinking of organizing another Wizard coffee. Still haven't heard how the last one went. Anyone?

Quote: teddys

Yep. If you even want to meet up at Palms (I think our trips overlap), I'm staying there and can point out the plays in person. I may even provide a Deuces Wild tutorial for a fellow WoV member ...

Incidentally, anyone else going to be in Vegas May 8-11? Was thinking of organizing another Wizard coffee. Still haven't heard how the last one went. Anyone?

Thanks!

Yes, we overlap. I'm there May 9th through 15th nearby at the Rio. I arrive rather late on the 9th, around 7 pm local time. That's too late IMO for a Wizard's coffee, but if you can twist his arm I'll be there.

Quote: teddys

Incidentally, anyone else going to be in Vegas May 8-11? Was thinking of organizing another Wizard coffee. Still haven't heard how the last one went. Anyone?

Don't really want to help hijack this thread -- just to suggest another one. I will miss your Vegas visit times, teddys and Nareed, but I will be there several days next week.

To an admin: would it be possible and appropriate to have some kind of thread or calendar on which we out-of-towners might post when we will be in Vegas? That would contribute to discussions about trying to meet up with some of our forum contacts face-to-face, and we could try to entice the Wizard and other locals to join whenever possible. I think something like that would be better than having a zillion "I'm going to be in Vegas..." threads all over the place here. Or maybe that's the way it's supposed to work.

So, in contrast to my comments in the previous paragraphs and for what it's worth, any locals or out-of-towners going to be around next week and want to try to schedule another meet up? How about it Wizard? Still game after whatever happened yesterday? (Incidentally, I have a little novelty gift to bring to you, if we ever were to plan to meet in person. Consider it a bribe, if you like.)

Quote: Doc

Don't really want to help hijack this thread -- just to suggest another one. I will miss your Vegas visit times, teddys and Nareed, but I will be there several days next week.

Hijack away. Most threads either die down inside a dozen posts or become flame wars.

I do second your motion. How about a forum topic for meetings? Aside from the native population (wink, wink), I figure lots of people on this board visit Vegas frequently (ie once a year or more). Therefore a palce where one could announce dates and palce of stay would be useful for those wanting to meet. We could wind up with a kind of floating WoV club (ie it meets ona semi-regular basis but the membership is diferent every time).