Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 11:21:37 AM permalink
Winning Streak Video Poker is another new game available on the WMS MyWin machines. It could be compared to MultiStrike Poker. The thrust of this game is that the player will keep getting paid as long as his winning streak goes. Here are the rules.

  1. The game may either play standard video poker or with the Endless Winning Streak feature by paying a fee equal to four times the video poker wager.

  2. The player will then play out a hand of video poker normally.

  3. If the player gets a paying hand, and the Endless Winning Streak feature was enabled, then that winning hand will be moved up what I call level 1, and he will play another hand.

  4. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 1, and push the hand previously in level 1 to level 2, and the player will play another hand. If the player loses, then the hand at level 1 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, and the game will be over.

  5. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 1, and all previous hands will advance in level. If the player loses, then the hand at level 1 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, the hand at level 2 at a 2x multiplier, and game will be over.

  6. This process will keep repeating until the player loses or a hand reaches level 5 and must get pushed off the screen, will will pay at a 10x multiplier.

  7. When the player eventually loses hands at level one pay a 1x multiplier, 2x for level 2, 5x for level 3, and 10x for level 4.

  8. There is also a specified chance, depending on the game, that after a losing hand the player will get a Free Streak hand. All previous winning hands will be pushed up a level, and level 2 will be noted with the Free Streak. The player will then play another hand. I assume that when the player eventually loses, or the Free Streak drops off the top, it will not pay anything, so is like a placeholder. This Free Streak probability is about 1%.


This game is going to be a very difficult analysis. I've knocked around some ways in my head. The strategy depends on the cards and the value of each of the three hands above it.

For now, let me know if these rules are clear of if you see any typos. I especially hope the heavy hitters in math see this to discuss how to analyze this beast.

I have some screenshots on my Odds site.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Nareed
Nareed
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 12:08:27 PM permalink
Buggy online demo:

http://playerslife.com/games/online/108/7

It takes some figuring out. Click on the "more games" tab.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 2001
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
February 9th, 2013 at 12:44:38 PM permalink
i played this game yesterday dueces wild at the 5cent denomination betting 25credits. i ended up getting 4 deuces with a 10x multiplier. didnt have a phone to take a screenshot though. two of the hands i just got dealt a pair. so it was a good sweat "praying" come on give me trips! to move my 4 deuces up to the next level.
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 2:35:02 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

i played this game yesterday dueces wild at the 5cent denomination betting 25credits. i ended up getting 4 deuces with a 10x multiplier. didnt have a phone to take a screenshot though. two of the hands i just got dealt a pair. so it was a good sweat "praying" come on give me trips! to move my 4 deuces up to the next level.



Nice hit!!! Do you happen to recall what paytable this game was? I hope it was better than "Colorado Deuces", but I don't expect that for nickels. :(

Quote: Wizard

Winning Streak Video Poker is another new game available on the WMS MyWin machines. It could be compared to MultiStrike Poker. The thrust of this game is that the player will keep getting paid as long as his winning streak goes. Here are the rules.

  1. The game may either play standard video poker or with the Endless Winning Streak feature by paying a fee equal to four times the video poker wager.

  2. The player will then play out a hand of video poker normally.

  3. If the player gets a paying hand, and the Endless Winning Streak feature was enabled, then that winning hand will be moved up to what I call level 2, and he will play another hand.

  4. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 2, the hand previously in level 2 will push to level 3, and the player will play another hand. If the player loses, then the hand at level 2 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, and the game will be over.

  5. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 2, the hand previously in level 2 will push to level 3, the hand previously at level 3 will push to level 4, and the player will play another hand. If the player loses, then the hand at level 2 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, the hand at level 3 at a 2x multiplier, and the game will be over.

  6. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 2, the hand previously in level 2 will push to level 3, the hand previously at level 3 will push to level 4, the hand previously at level 4 will push to level 5, and the player will play another hand. If the player loses, then the hand at level 2 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, the hand at level 3 at a 2x multiplier, the hand at level 4 at a 5X multiplier, and the game will be over.

  7. If the next hand is also a paying hand every previous winning hand will continue to push up. The hand previously at level five will immediately be paid with a 10x multiplier and drop off from the screen. If the player loses, then the hand at level 2 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, the hand at level 3 at a 2x multiplier, the hand at level 4 at 5x, the hand at level 5 at 10x, and the game will be over.

  8. If the next hand is also a paying hand then keep repeating the last step.

  9. There is also a specified chance, depending on the game, that after a losing hand the player will get a Free Streak hand. All previous winning hands will be pushed up a level, and level 2 will be noted with the Free Streak. The player will then play another hand. I assume that when the player eventually loses, or the Free Streak drops off the top, it will not pay anything, so is like a placeholder. This Free Streak probability is about 1%.


This game is going to be a very difficult analysis. I've knocked around some ways in my head. The strategy depends on the cards and the value of each of the three hands above it.

For now, let me know if these rules are clear of if you see any typos. I especially hope the heavy hitters in math see this to discuss how to analyze this beast.



You left out a step I think. If you only win one hand, you only get paid at 1X for that hand. I proposed changes in bold above.

As for the math, a main factor in strategy will be the value of hands that were previously won, correct?

So let's say we're playing 55/9/5 JoB and we have made 2 pair the previous hand, which sits in Level 2 with a 1X multiplier worth 10 coins, moving it to the next level is worth 20 coins, a 10-coin gain. So for the next hand, an approximate strategy would be to maximize the following:
Royal 4010
SF 285
4OAK 135
FH 55
Flush 40
Straight 30
3OAK 25
2 Pair 20
JoB 15

Of course this is quite simplistic and doesn't value future play beyond the next hand. This will have to be implemented someway that is more difficult than I would like to currently think about since it is the weekend. :p
JB
Administrator
JB
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2089
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 3:05:13 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This process will keep repeating until the player loses or a hand reaches level 5 and must get pushed off the screen


I think the streak can continue beyond 5 hands. In the online demo, the prizes for excess hands are banked and awarded when the streak finally ends; the picture you took of the help screen indicates that on the physical machine, a prize is awarded immediately for a hand that gets pushed off the 10x row.

Quote: Wizard

This game is going to be a very difficult analysis.


Agreed. The analysis would be like a hybrid of Multi-Strike and Ultimate X.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 3:52:46 PM permalink
Thank, tringlomane, for the edits, but I think we were working at the same time. I've since tried to simplify the rules. You're welcome to take another pass at them.

Quote: JB

The analysis would be like a hybrid of Multi-Strike and Ultimate X.



Yep. The brute force way would be to cycle through every combination of.

1. Cards on the deal.
2. Cards on the draw.
3. Win on level 1.
4 Win on level 2.
5. Win on level 3.
6. Win on level 4.

For a game like Jacks or Better, with 10 different win amounts (including 0), the number of combinations is 3,986,646,103,440,000. Multiply that by 2 that each play may or may not get a Free Streak.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 4:11:32 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thank, tringlomane, for the edits, but I think we were working at the same time. I've since tried to simplify the rules. You're welcome to take another pass at them.

For a game like Jacks or Better, with 10 different win amounts (including 0), the number of combinations is 3,986,646,103,440,000. Multiply that by 2 that each play may or may not get a Free Streak.



You're welcome. Your edit got most of it, so very minor suggestions now. Point 7 is missing a comma after "loses", and these suggestions on 5&6.

5. If the next hand is also a paying hand it will push up to level 1, and all previous hands will advance in level. If the player loses, then the hand at level 1 will be paid with a 1x multiplier, the hand at level 2 at a 2x multiplier, and the game will be over.

6. This process will keep repeating until the player loses. If a hand reaches level 5, it must get pushed off the screen and will be paid at a 10x multiplier.

Also, how much computer time would it take for you to cycle through that many combinations?? :-\
JB
Administrator
JB
  • Threads: 334
  • Posts: 2089
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 4:12:38 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The brute force way would be to cycle through every combination of.

1. Cards on the deal.
2. Cards on the draw.
3. Win on level 1.
4 Win on level 2.
5. Win on level 3.
6. Win on level 4.


I would argue that the win on level 4 has no impact on the strategy, since its value remains constant regardless of whether the current hand wins or loses. Would you agree?
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1909
Joined: May 10, 2011
February 9th, 2013 at 4:14:01 PM permalink
Quote: JB

I would argue that the win on level 4 has no impact on the strategy, since its value remains constant regardless of whether the current hand wins or loses. Would you agree?



Completely agree.
I heart Crystal Math.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 4:17:21 PM permalink
Quote: JB

I would argue that the win on level 4 has no impact on the strategy, since its value remains constant regardless of whether the current hand wins or loses. Would you agree?



You seem to be right.

Another question I wonder about is how this game address the Nevada statute that says the top prize of a game must have a certain minimum probability. I don't recall the statue number or this probability, but believe it to be in the range of 1 in 25 million. I'm sure ME can refresh our memories.

The top prize in this game would seem to be infinity, and the probability 0. I say 0 in kind of the same sense that if you picked a random number between 0 and 10 the probability of picking pi is 0 -- but it could still happen.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1909
Joined: May 10, 2011
February 9th, 2013 at 4:24:44 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You seem to be right.

Another question I wonder about is how this game address the Nevada statute that says the top prize of a game must have a certain minimum probability. I don't recall the statue number or this probability, but believe it to be in the range of 1 in 25 million. I'm sure ME can refresh our memories.

The top prize in this game would seem to be infinity, and the probability 0. I say 0 in kind of the same sense that if you picked a random number between 0 and 10 the probability of picking pi is 0 -- but it could still happen.



In the case of free games, you only have to hit the top award once, so I'm sure this game is similar. If this is the case, the game would be well under 1:25M. As an aside, I steer people toward 1:17M odds, so the odds will be legal in all class III jurisdictions.
I heart Crystal Math.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
  • Threads: 212
  • Posts: 8277
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 4:44:27 PM permalink
This is the guy who runs WMS, so I'm not surprised it's difficult.
http://brer-powerofbabel.blogspot.com/2010/12/professor-hinkle-favorite-quotes.html
I am a robot.
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 4:48:37 PM permalink




Dammit, dammit, dammit!!! Why dammit? This was at playerslife.com for nothing. Drew 2 to the Royal. Also Deuces Wild banks properly unlike some of their other buggy variants of this game. This is depressing. Strategy test for Wiz/JB, was this last hand the correct hold over garbage given my other wins? I'm guessing yes, but a gutshot definitely wouldn't be.

Ughhhhhhh, again this sucks.

Edit: It might have been due to the lengthy delay in playing the next hand, or because of the huge payout, but they didn't put the credits in my account before the start of the next hand. Crappy, buggy game.
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 4:54:08 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You seem to be right.

Another question I wonder about is how this game address the Nevada statute that says the top prize of a game must have a certain minimum probability. I don't recall the statue number or this probability, but believe it to be in the range of 1 in 25 million. I'm sure ME can refresh our memories.

The top prize in this game would seem to be infinity, and the probability 0. I say 0 in kind of the same sense that if you picked a random number between 0 and 10 the probability of picking pi is 0 -- but it could still happen.



I think with regards to the "top prize" I guessing for this game they probably just mean, one royal at 10X as the definition of the "max prize", see picture for details. %%^*#^#*%^*!!!%$^#^$^#!! Or someone at WMS/Nevada gaming overlooked this thought of infinite hands.
rudeboyoi
rudeboyoi
  • Threads: 27
  • Posts: 2001
Joined: Mar 28, 2010
February 9th, 2013 at 7:00:41 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Nice hit!!! Do you happen to recall what paytable this game was? I hope it was better than "Colorado Deuces", but I don't expect that for nickels. :(



i remember for certain it was 200 for quad deuces, 4 for quads, 4 for a fullhouse, 3 for a flush, 2 for a straight, and 1 for trips. i cant recall exactly what it was for a wild royal, 5oak, or a straight flush. i think they did pay 300 for a royal though if you only bet 1 coin.
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 9th, 2013 at 7:29:14 PM permalink
Quote: rudeboyoi

i remember for certain it was 200 for quad deuces, 4 for quads, 4 for a fullhouse, 3 for a flush, 2 for a straight, and 1 for trips. i cant recall exactly what it was for a wild royal, 5oak, or a straight flush. i think they did pay 300 for a royal though if you only bet 1 coin.



If I had to guess, it's either 20/12/10 (97.58% traditional payout) or 20/10/8 (95.96%). If it was 25/15/9 (98.91%) for nickels, I'd be really impressed.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
February 9th, 2013 at 7:58:19 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

In the case of free games, you only have to hit the top award once, so I'm sure this game is similar. If this is the case, the game would be well under 1:25M. As an aside, I steer people toward 1:17M odds, so the odds will be legal in all class III jurisdictions.



This makes sense. Otherwise, how could you have a free spin bonus under the statute.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
tringlomane
tringlomane
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6281
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
February 10th, 2013 at 10:34:16 AM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

In the case of free games, you only have to hit the top award once, so I'm sure this game is similar. If this is the case, the game would be well under 1:25M. As an aside, I steer people toward 1:17M odds, so the odds will be legal in all class III jurisdictions.



I'm guessing this is also why if you get a dealt Royal with any multiplier in Double Super Times Pay, you are forced to get a 10X multiplier on the deal and a 10X on the draw, leading to 1:9.74M jackpot odds. Getting the 20X multiplier under the typical rules is 1 in 562,500 by itself. I got that once in Vegas and won nothing...doh.
CrystalMath
CrystalMath
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 1909
Joined: May 10, 2011
February 10th, 2013 at 12:20:57 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I'm guessing this is also why if you get a dealt Royal with any multiplier in Double Super Times Pay, you are forced to get a 10X multiplier on the deal and a 10X on the draw, leading to 1:9.74M jackpot odds. Getting the 20X multiplier under the typical rules is 1 in 562,500 by itself. I got that once in Vegas and won nothing...doh.



Yes, it is quite normal for a multiplier to be capped, fixed, or even eliminated for the top award only in order to stay within the top award odds regulations.

Keno is another interesting game, where they will only consider the most favorable number of spots when looking at the top award odds. This is often why 10/10 pays the same as 9/9, 8/8, and 7/7. If you look at Caveman Keno, top award is hitting all of your marked spots plus 3 more spots. On the 10 spot game, this is equivalent to getting 13/13, which may as well be impossible, but on the 7 spot game, this is the same as hitting a 10/10.
I heart Crystal Math.
  • Jump to: