Game King Video Poker Survey

One project idea I am thinking of doing is doing a survey of video poker pay tables as found only on Game King machines. For those unfamiliar with them, the Game King is a very popular machine where the player can usually choose between video poker, video keno, some simple slot games, and sometimes blackjack. If the player chooses video poker several games will appear on the menu to choose from. The player may usually chose from multiple denominations as well.
The game selection changes according to the denomination, and the pay tables generally get better as the denomination goes up.

I started with just the three casinos in the Summerlin area, where I live. This is based on just one machine per casino per denomination. So, I admit it is a small sample size, but usually a given casino will set all their Game Kings the same way. Yes, I know there are exceptions, you don't need to name them. Here are the tables thus far.

5 Cents

Casino	BP	BPD	DB	DDB	DW	DWBP	JPK	TBPP	Average
Rampart	98.01%			94.66%		95.34%		96.62%	96.16%
Suncost	96.87%	95.36%		94.66%	94.82%				95.43%
Red Rock	96.87%		94.19%	94.66%	94.82%		95.46%		95.2%

25 Cents

Casino	Aces$	BP	BPD	DB	DDB	DW	DWBP	JoB	JP-K	SDDBP	TBPP	Average
Rampart		99.17%			98.98%	98.91%		99.54%				99.15%
Suncoast	98.26%	98.01%	98.49%	97.81%	97.87%	96.77%					98.73%	97.99%
Red Rock		98.01%	97.4%	97.81%	97.87%	98.91%	97.36%		96.38%	97.69%	99.8%	97.92%

1 Dollar

Casino	BP	BPD	DB	DDB	DW	DWBP	JoB	JP-2P	SDDBP	TDBP	Average
Rampart	99.17%			98.98%	98.91%		99.54%				99.15%
Red Rock	99.17%	97.4%	97.81%	98.98%	98.91%	98.8%		97.19%	98.61%	97.02%	98.21%
Suncoast	98.01%	98.49%	97.81%	97.87%	96.77%						97.79%

5 Dollars

Casino	BP	BPD	DB	DDB	DW	DWBP	JoB	JP-2P	SDBP	SDDBP	TDBP	TBPP	Average
Rampart	99.17%			98.98%	98.91%		99.54%		98.69%	98.61%	98.15%	98.73%	98.85%
Suncoast	98.01%	98.49%	97.81%	98.98%	98.91%								98.44%
Red Rock	98.01%	97.4%	97.81%	97.87%	97.58%	97.36%		97.19%	97.77%		97.02%		97.56%

Key

Code	Game
BP	Bonus Poker
BPD	Bonus Poker Deluxe
DB	Double Bonus Poker
DDB	Double Double Bonus Poker
DW	Deuces Wild
DWBP	Deuces Wild Bonus Poker
SBDW	Super Bonus Deuces Wild
JoB	Jacks or Better
JP-K	Joker Poker -- Kings or Better
JP-2P	Joker Poker -- Two Pair or Better
SDBP	Super Double Bonus Poker
SDDBP	Super Double Double Bonus Poker
TDBP	Triple Double Bonus Poker
TBPP	Triple Bonus Poker Plus

What this shows is that the Rampart wins in all four denominations, followed by the Suncoast, and then Red Rock.

Of course, this doesn't take into consideration points, comps, promotions, and all that jazz. I leave it up the reader to adjust for those things.

Interesting. The top payback was the Red Rock $1 Trip Double game. Was that the 9-7 payable? Our new Hollywood property in K.C.had that game at 9-7 for the first three months. Made some money on it...now it is back to 9-6.

Quote: midwestgb

Interesting. The top payback was the Red Rock $1 Trip Double game. Was that the 9-7 payable?

Good catch, that was a mistake. It should have been 97.02%. The return incorrectly shown was for Triple Double Poker Plus. The Red Rock doesn't have anything better than 8-5 Bonus Poker, as far as I know, except on their teaser "optimum play" games by the entrances.

Quote: Wizard

Good catch, that was a mistake. It should have been 97.02%. The return incorrectly shown was for Triple Double Poker Plus. The Red Rock doesn't have anything better than 8-5 Bonus Poker, as far as I know, except on their teaser "optimum play" games by the entrances.

Shucks....thought I had an excuse to finally get out to the Red Rock next Vegas trip... ;-)

Most casinos set their game king's the same way in Vegas? That's a bit surprising to me, at least among different banks of machines within the casino.

Rampart Casino it is for all my .25 Double Double Bonus needs.


all of them are better than the paybacks in AC. 7/5 DDB, some 8/5 DDB, and some 9/5 DDB&DB in Harrarhs AC, you have to look for the better machines. In Ballys AC it's 7/5 DDB except 2 machines by the cashier that are actually 9/5 DDB.

Quote: tringlomane

Most casinos set their game king's the same way in Vegas? That's a bit surprising to me, at least among different banks of machines within the casino.

What I meant was a given casino will set all their Game Kings the same way. Not that all casinos set them to the same way to each other, in which case, why do the survey?

Quote: Wizard

...usually a given casino will set all their Game Kings the same way.

Even before getting to this comment, I was going to question if this is true.

My gut feeling is that it is more often not true than true.

Not to mention, the data may get out of date too quickly.


Therefore, this may be an exercise in futility.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Therefore, this may be an exercise in futility.

Maybe you're right. It would also be terribly time intensive and boring to do the whole city.

Quote: Wizard

Good catch, that was a mistake. It should have been 97.02%. The return incorrectly shown was for Triple Double Poker Plus. The Red Rock doesn't have anything better than 8-5 Bonus Poker, as far as I know, except on their teaser "optimum play" games by the entrances.

You mean that "casinos put better machines by the entrances" isn't an Urban Legend?

Quote: ThatDonGuy

You mean that "casinos put better machines by the entrances" isn't an Urban Legend?

Generally, yes, it is. However, the Station Casinos, especially the Red Rock, put machines that say "Optimum Play" right by the doors, all with over 100% return. It is an exception to the rule.

I think you surveyed the worst machines at both Red Rock and Suncoast. The bar has 8/5 BP at Red Rock and rows of full pay 9/6 JOB and better games. There are also about 20 100% payback machines. Suncoast has some of the best bar VP in the valley that beats about everything you have listed there. I have done several surveys here and in one other casino city and I think most casinos have different VP payouts from one back to another. In LV this is especially true at local's casinos and downtown.

Quote: Pokeraddict

I think you surveyed the worst machines at both Red Rock and Suncoast...

It was never my intent to survey the best games at each casino, but a randomly picked average game. The purpose was to offer a rough metric of how loose the casino sets its video poker, and thus slots in general. For those in search of the best games there is vpfree, and I'm never going to accomplish anything half as good as that.

By the way, I have played the 9-6 Bonus Poker Deluxe on 7x days at the Suncoast many times. I have a feeling they are onto me, so I've been laying off of it lately.

Quote: Wizard

Good catch, that was a mistake. It should have been 97.02%. The return incorrectly shown was for Triple Double Poker Plus. The Red Rock doesn't have anything better than 8-5 Bonus Poker, as far as I know, except on their teaser "optimum play" games by the entrances.

What games are typically on the 'optimum play' machines? I am sure that they earn fewer points, is that why you call them 'teaser' games?

Quote: bigfoot66

What games are typically on the 'optimum play' machines? I am sure that they earn fewer points, is that why you call them 'teaser' games?

FPDW, but I think only at the 5-cent denom. Above that I think 10/7 double bonus at the 25 cent level, and 10/6 double double bonus at $1. I'm just going off memory. Vpfree probably states exactly.

You can see Lisa playing FPDW at the 5-cent level in the photo a few posts back. The picture was taken at the Palace Station, but I'm quite sure they have it at all the Station casinos.l

Quote: Wizard

You can see Lisa playing FPDW at the 5-cent level in the photo a few posts back.

Looks like she's got 5 aces. Did you play til you got a good hand, or just happen to take the picture then?

Quote: rdw4potus

Looks like she's got 5 aces. Did you play til you got a good hand, or just happen to take the picture then?

She did. I think I just played until I got any paying hand.

Quote: Wizard

The Red Rock doesn't have anything better than 8-5 Bonus Poker, as far as I know, except on their teaser "optimum play" games by the entrances.

Wiz:

First of all, thanks for everything you do for the
average Joe gambler ( gamer ? ).

I didn't make it out to Red Rock during my trip
in July, because we decided not to get a rental
car.

But here's what VPFREE2 currently shows for RR,
and even though they can't keep everything up
to date, these games were there in March
of this year (and as you can see the "teaser"
is at the 25 cent denom):

100.76 FPDW, 1-2-2-3-5-9-15-25-200-800 :

(4) 25¢ 1 Play Slant just inside entrance between buffet and Rocks Lounge
(6) 25¢ 1 Play NS Slant just inside entrance from west valet between keno and bingo
(4) 25¢ 1 Play Slant in front of cashier
(4) 25¢ 1 Play Slant near movie theater
(4) 25¢ 1 Play Slant just inside entrance between Terra Rossa and LBS Restaurants



99.73 % NSUD Wild, 1-2-3-4-4-10-16-25-200-800:

(4) 25¢, 50¢, $1 1 Play Slant between slot club and sportsbook bar
(4) 25¢, 50¢, $1 1 Play Slant outside high limit table games room


I played the NSUD with my card, figuring that maybe
that would prompt some offers in the mail. It hasn't
worked yet.

Red Rock is now 3rd on the list of places I would like to
stay at, behind PALMS and TRUMP TOWER.

deleted

Most Station casinos have 100.76% Full-Pay Deuces at 25c. I believe the only exception is Palace Station which only has it at 5c.

These machines also have 10/7 DB (100.17%) in 25c, 50c, and $1, Loose Deuces (100.15%) in 25c, 50c, and $1, Super Bonus Deuces Wild (100.13%) in 25c, 50c, and $1, and 10/6 DDB (100.07%) from 5c to $1. Not all of the 100% games are on all of the 100% machines. They all earn 1/4 points (usually 3 points for $4, or .075%)

I'm not sure if they put the good machines by the doors for marketing or because the locations sort of suck. It's funny to see the people grinding out the FPDW by the valet entrance in the winter all wearing coats.

The lesson in the exercise appears to be "Don't play "Game King" machines unless you're looking for Jacks or Better at Rampart)."

FWIW I like how Green Valley Ranch had to install a lot more of the "99.8%" machines since they directly compete with South Point and their "Over 10,000 Video Poker games paying over 99%." There are now 99.8% machines (9/6 JoB, NSUD, etc) almost everywhere you look at GVR and they have signage saying "Thousands of video poker games paying more than 99%" Red Rock needs to add more. It's not uncommon for them all to be full.

Quote:

I played the NSUD with my card, figuring that maybe
that would prompt some offers in the mail. It hasn't
worked yet.

Stations is constantly changing. They've recently switched away from multiple point days for everyone to tiered multiple point offers (paying less, apparently, I get 5 points per $ and my wife gets 4 per $) in mailers that you activate personally. On the upside they also appear to be giving more free play in their mailers as of late.

Maybe they'll send something.

I can't find the thread where the Wizard asked "What should I do next?" so I'll put this here.
--------------------------------------------
I have two suggestions:

-I think it is time for another sportsbook survey. With the consolidation and new players, I think bettors would be interested in how companies like William Hill and Cantor offer their bets.

-An analysis of "Sam Boyd's Treasure Chest" poker at the downtown Boyd properties. This would entail sitting at the machine and calculating the average bonus for four-of-a-kinds. Perhaps not the best use of one's time, but perhaps one could find a willing lackey to do it for them?