Atlantic City 2020

I’m on my way back from Atlantic City and wanted to post on my experiences and what I saw. This will be a series of posts as I’m on NJ Transit currently.

Background

I hadn’t been to a casino this year. Friend of mine had a business conference in AC and invited me to join. He had a room at Trop and I got a comped room at Caesars. We arrived Monday around 1. He dropped me off at Caesars and then went to Trop for his conference.

Virus Issues

Out of 3 casinos I went to, none took temperature checks. Most had guards at the entrances next to giant signs saying things like “If any of the following are true, don’t enter”. One guard gave a mask to a guy without one. Drink service was back to normal. You could drink at the tables. No need to take a step back. Caesars pool and fitness center were closed. Upon checkin I asked if resort fee could be waived because so much was closed. Request denied. Clerk noted that under normal circumstances, pool is NOT part of resort fee. Even hotel guests pay $10 to use the pool. That’s absurd. Upon check out, I made the same request, noting my disappointment at no fitness center. Clerk agreed to waive the resort fee. Total out of pocket for the room: about $5 in tax and a tip to the housekeeper. I stayed in the Ocean Tower. “7700” floor, which seemed to be actually 4th floor or so. Sideways view of the ocean. No coffee maker in room (allegedly because of coronavirus). Room itself was otherwise clean and standard nice.

Quote: TinMan

I’m on my way back from Atlantic City and wanted to post on my experiences and what I saw. This will be a series of posts as I’m on NJ Transit currently.

Background

I hadn’t been to a casino this year. Friend of mine had a business conference in AC and invited me to join. He had a room at Trop and I got a comped room at Caesars. We arrived Monday around 1. He dropped me off at Caesars and then went to Trop for his conference.

Virus Issues

Out of 3 casinos I went to, none took temperature checks. Most had guards at the entrances next to giant signs saying things like “If any of the following are true, don’t enter”. One guard gave a mask to a guy without one. Drink service was back to normal. You could drink at the tables. No need to take a step back. Caesars pool and fitness center were closed. Upon checkin I asked if resort fee could be waived because so much was closed. Request denied. Clerk noted that under normal circumstances, pool is NOT part of resort fee. Even hotel guests pay $10 to use the pool. That’s absurd. Upon check out, I made the same request, noting my disappointment at no fitness center. Clerk agreed to waive the resort fee. Total out of pocket for the room: about $5 in tax and a tip to the housekeeper. I stayed in the Ocean Tower. “7700” floor, which seemed to be actually 4th floor or so. Sideways view of the ocean. No coffee maker in room (allegedly because of coronavirus). Room itself was otherwise clean and standard nice.

Its cool that they agreed to waive the resort fee with so much being closed (honestly I think its a nonsense fee to begin with and should be part of the advertised price, but that's another topic).

Is smoking still banned in AC?

Tropicana used to be my favorite, but now that its owned by CET I am not sure if that will remain the case.

Game selection

Fewer games than usual and sometimes higher limits. Ballys craps was $10 (usually there’s always a $5 table). Caesars seemed to be generally $15 craps. Once saw a $25 table. Ballys pit boss told me their Tiles game is only open on Saturdays. Caesars had standard $25 Tiles. One table. 4 spots. BJ seemed to be $15 at Ballys. WWW almost entirely closed (Mon night it had one craps table). Trop BJ was $15 and up. Roulette at $10 (I don’t play but noticed it). Craps at $15.

My gambling (day 1, part 1)

I arrived at 1 and tried to check in. Was told $10 for early check in. I said I’d wait. Went to $10 ballys craps. 5x odds. First point was 4 and it was hit. So quickly up $110. Unfortunately, things turned sour. Within an hour I was down $400 betting only pass line and $50 odds. Took a walk to Caesars. 9/6 JOB for quarters. Progressive for RF at $1035 or so. Within 30 mins down $100. Time to check in and put my things down in the room.

After check in, played more JOB. Recouped $60 or so. Went to Tiles. Managed to win about $20 overall. Made two silly mistakes in setting my hand—chose Gong over High 9 in a spot where the 9 was clearly better. That caused me a push rather than win. And another time chose 8/3 over 6/5. I usually wouldn’t make that mistake but hadn’t played tiles in about a year. That cost me a loss instead of a push. Ugh. By this point my friends conference was over for the day and I walked to Trop to meet him for dinner. I was ready for a break.

The pool is located in Bally's if I recall So you have to walk over.

It's free if you're room is in Bally's I believe.

From what I remember them telling me (I was in Caesars with three kids so I complained it was gonna cost me $40 to go the hotel pool, as it's $10 per person) this pool is owned and operated by an independent company.

They have a deal with Bally's but not Caesars so Caesars people gotta pay (plus do all that extra walking)

Sucks but that's the situation

Quote: Gandler

Is smoking still banned in AC?

Tropicana used to be my favorite, but now that its owned by CET I am not sure if that will remain the case.

Smoking is banned and in 2 days I saw no one smoking or even trying to smoke. It was very pleasant for me.

I tried to use my Caesars card at Trop. No luck. Have to sign up for a strange Caesars “Local” card that’s only good at Trop. It appears to accrue points separately. I checked for promotions for getting the card and was told there was no freeplay. There was a coupon for BOGO Starbucks and trivial discounts at some shops.

Quote: TinMan

Smoking is banned and in 2 days I saw no one smoking or even trying to smoke. It was very pleasant for me.

I tried to use my Caesars card at Trop. No luck. Have to sign up for a strange Caesars “Local” card that’s only good at Trop. It appears to accrue points separately. I checked for promotions for getting the card and was told there was no freeplay. There was a coupon for BOGO Starbucks and trivial discounts at some shops.

I was under the impression that they were fully merging and the local card was just if you were not a Ceasars reward member.

This is the email I received last week:

I dropped by my local casino at 8 pm last night. They had a roped off area for a long entrance line. One guy had a thermometer in his hand and told me to stand on a spot and some facial device was used on me, but my mask was still on, might be another high tech thermometer. Went forward 4 feet and the bouncer was swiping ID's. He was telling the black guy before me something about cops, so I have to assume the bouncer is a former cop. He told me my License was expired and told me to get an appointment at the DMV to get it renewed ASAP. I asked if the Governor had said anything about how long my license was good for, he reiterated I should get an appointment. I read on the internet later that the sheriffs in surrounding counties are demanding a printout of proof of a DMV appointment to avoid a ticket. My hometown DMV is closed, so I have to go to the next city over. My appointment is 5 weeks from now. The bouncer also told me to lower my mask for a photo but I never saw a camera.

My visit to the casino was stark. All the tables were shut down, all the bars (except one bar off the food court which had a handful of people in it) were shut down, the self-serve soda machines were shut down. I'll assume every other slot machine was shutdown, but could be reactivated upon request. Some machines had blue screens, some machines said disabled by the host, others were cash-outs and disabled.

This was 8 pm on a weeknight and the place was deader than a Tuesday morning at 4 am. There were plenty of cars in the parking lot, maybe they were in their hotel rooms, idk.

The sportsbook was open and the mega TV screens were on.

I don't know what the electric bills are for keeping thousands of machines on is, but I wish they'd have an arcade section, not that people would slow down putting their money into those.

Quote: ChumpChange

I dropped by my local casino at 8 pm last night. They had a roped off area for a long entrance line. One guy had a thermometer in his hand and told me to stand on a spot and some facial device was used on me, but my mask was still on, might be another high tech thermometer. Went forward 4 feet and the bouncer was swiping ID's. He was telling the black guy before me something about cops, so I have to assume the bouncer is a former cop. He told me my License was expired and told me to get an appointment at the DMV to get it renewed ASAP. I asked if the Governor had said anything about how long my license was good for, he reiterated I should get an appointment. I read on the internet later that the sheriffs in surrounding counties are demanding a printout of proof of a DMV appointment to avoid a ticket. My hometown DMV is closed, so I have to go to the next city over. My appointment is 5 weeks from now. The bouncer also told me to lower my mask for a photo but I never saw a camera.

My visit to the casino was stark. All the tables were shut down, all the bars (except one bar off the food court which had a handful of people in it) were shut down, the self-serve soda machines were shut down. I'll assume every other slot machine was shutdown, but could be reactivated upon request. Some machines had blue screens, some machines said disabled by the host, others were cash-outs and disabled.

This was 8 pm on a weeknight and the place was deader than a Tuesday morning at 4 am. There were plenty of cars in the parking lot, maybe they were in their hotel rooms, idk.

The sportsbook was open and the mega TV screens were on.

I don't know what the electric bills are for keeping thousands of machines on is, but I wish they'd have an arcade section, not that people would slow down putting their money into those.

The off-season (after labor day) AC is pretty quiet after 8pm on weeknights, I don’t think that is virus exclusive. With the exception of some weeks with holidays or major events perhaps. It may seem thinner now with people more spread I would assume (not groups of people huddled around one machine, table, etc....)

I’m in AC nearly every weekend but haven’t spent much time in casinos. I’m not against mask policies but personally they are almost unbearable to wear after an hour or so. If drinking is back that means basically no one playing is wearing a mask?

Hard Rock and Borgata were the only casinos I went to that had a temperature check.

I thought it was funny they made you remove your mask to cash chips. Is this a requirement in Vegas?

Quote: gamerfreak

I’m in AC nearly every weekend but haven’t spent much time in casinos. I’m not against mask policies but personally they are almost unbearable to wear after an hour or so. If drinking is back that means basically no one playing is wearing a mask?

Hard Rock and Borgata were the only casinos I went to that had a temperature check.

I thought it was funny they made you remove your mask to cash chips. Is this a requirement in Vegas?

Masks are required pretty much everywhere in NJ, casinos are no different then any other buinsess.

Do you work in an office or any kind of indoor environment in NJ? If you work inside or outside near others, chances are you are already wearing a mask for over an hour at a time, I don’t understand how when people get off work masks become so much more of a burden....

i have $125 slot play at Ballys on multiple days but im not going till the diamond lounges are open.

Quote: 100xOdds

i have $125 slot play at Ballys on multiple days but im not going till the diamond lounges are open.

Do you live far from there? I have a regular dillema of how much time I am willing to invest for "x" amount of freeplay. I regularly get between $100 and $300 free play per week for a casino 90 miles away. How often do I go? It just depends, some days I will go for $140 and some days it might take $240 to go. It costs me about 3.5 hours round trip to collect it.

Quote: Gandler

Masks are required pretty much everywhere in NJ, casinos are no different then any other buinsess.

Do you work in an office or any kind of indoor environment in NJ? If you work inside or outside near others, chances are you are already wearing a mask for over an hour at a time, I don’t understand how when people get off work masks become so much more of a burden....

How does one drink while wearing a mask?

I work 100% from home. So I never really wear a mask other than going to the grocery store.

Quote: gamerfreak

How does one drink while wearing a mask?

I work 100% from home. So I never really wear a mask other than going to the grocery store.

Well then it may not apply to you, but I am always amused at people who wear masks for 8-12 hours a day at work, and then complain about having to put one on for 15 minutes to go into a store. But, in any case, I never found it challenging to wear a mask in any environment.

There are exceptions for consumption. That is why AC originally banned all consumption (drinking, eating, smoking, etc...) But, yes if you are eating or drinking of course you need to have a mask off. That is why originally NJ pretty much only allowed outdoor dining in limited capacity, but now that is scaling back.

Personally I don't understand why the smoking ban persist if they are going to allow people to walk around with drinks (which is already carte blanche to walk around a business with a mask off). In my view you either need total indoor consumption ban or just allow everything (the effect will be the same).

The cynic in me is this is NJ's backdoor way of finally banning smoking in AC (which they have failed for so long to do) because people will get used to it and it will just never come back. Casinos are pretty much the only indoor place in NJ with no smoking restrictions (the AC 25% rule is a city level rule, there is no state mandate requiring designated smoking and nonsmoking areas). Other than Casinos, tobacco shops, private residences, and private automobiles (even then you can get a ticket depending where your car is, such as smoking in your car in a state university parking lot), smoking in NJ is pretty much prohibited everywhere (even many outdoor areas such as beaches), and NJ has been looking for an excuse to ban smoking in casinos since the mid 2000s, I fear this may be it.

The bubbles in my Sprite are aerosoled COVID-19. Toast!

Quote: 100xOdds

i have $125 slot play at Ballys on multiple days but im not going till the diamond lounges are open.

I know their website says otherwise but the lounges in AC are open. Unfortunately the menus seem pretty limited based on the reports I've seen.

Day 1, Part 2

I met my friend at Trop. We went to eat at Casa Taco. I had the surf and turf tacos (shrimp and steak). They were good, but nothing exceptional. The "steak" wasn't sliced steak; looked more like boiled beef in the shape of chicken fingers. My friend had nachos, which he rated at a 9 out of 10. I thought they were good, but the chips seemed like they came straight from the fryer without draining and were greasy.

Then we walked around. My friend is only familiar with blackjack. He was interested in VP, so we stopped at a machine and I answered some questions. He had never played before. He asked things like "Do I use the same strategy as if I were playing 5 card draw?" He liked that VP payback is better than slots. I mentioned that you have to play the proper strategy and showed him my JOB chart. Some more walking around and we came to a craps table. I explained the PL and odds. He asked about the Come and couldn't quite wrap his head around what it was. I tried to explain it's like having parallel games happening simultaneously. He did get that the center bets are bad bets.

Then he pointed out the stadium gaming. I'd never done it before, but it was 3/2 BJ for $5 with a live dealer. That seemed like a great option. He's not a gambler, so $5 was perfect. He was confused by the communal nature of the hit cards, but eventually got it. We played for an hour. He lost $10 and I won $20 or so. Afterwards he said that he really enjoyed it but wished a server came around to order drinks. He asked about Baccarat because that was an option too.

It was late so I walked back to Caesars. I played another hour or so of Tiles. Won $150. I had pairs like 5 hands in a row. At one point I asked to bank. Everyone pulled back their bets. I was dealt Teen and Day pair. First ever Bo/Bo. Woman next to me nearly jumped out of her seat. Kept saying I had to press my bets. At this point, had a headache from drinking and called it a night.

Overall so far, down $250-300 or so for the day.

Quote: Gandler

smoking in NJ is pretty much prohibited everywhere (even many outdoor areas such as beaches), and NJ has been looking for an excuse to ban smoking in casinos since the mid 2000s, I fear this may be it.

I'm happy this may be it!

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: Gandler

smoking in NJ is pretty much prohibited everywhere (even many outdoor areas such as beaches), and NJ has been looking for an excuse to ban smoking in casinos since the mid 2000s, I fear this may be it.

I'm happy this may be it!

Why?

The City of Atlantic City came up with a pretty fair local level solution (25% smoking 75% nonsmoking). As a nonsmoker (as I am by the way except when I am at casinos) you already have the vast majority of the building to be free of smoking. I don't understand why so many feel this is unfair.

I don't understand the need for a total ban on a state level. Keep casinos exempt from the smoking ban (for goodness sake they are virtually one of the only exceptions others than tobacco shops, private residences and cars -and even private homes and cars can have restrictions if they have minors inside-). AC has been pretty good with their local policies on this, let it stay this way. And, if casinos ever get authorized for other cities, let them work out what works for their city.

Day 2

Woke up, got ready and headed down to casino around 8:30. Went to $10 craps table at Ballys. Dead empty. I put down my money and was the only shooter for about 40 minutes. $10 PL, $50 odds, nothing else for me. Placed the 6 and 8 for dealers a few times. AC pays 2:1 on dealer 6/8 place bets, >100% return. Better for dealers than just handing in $1 tokes. I probably went through what would normally be about 90-120 minutes of rolls at a full table. I don't set the dice, I don't have elaborate rituals. They sanitized the dice after EVERY 7-out. I asked the pit if I could request not sanitizing after every 7-out since it was just me. He said he wished he could agree, but they had to do it this way. So it goes. After 40 mins, I was up $310 and out of the hole. Decided to call it a session.

Went to the food court and got a sandwich at the sub place. More than acceptable. Walked into Dunkin Donuts for a donut, but the line was 10 deep and I dislike waiting in lines. Plus, I don't need any more junk food in my diet. Walked over to Caesars, 9/6 JOB. I was even/down for most of the session, then hit my first and only 4OAK and cashed out, up $20 or so.

Went up to the room, grabbed my stuff and checked out. As mentioned previously, they waived the resort fee. That felt like a $30 win.

I had about an hour or so before meeting my friend again, so decided to enjoy some low volatility craps. Rather than 5x odds, only did 1x odds. Bought in for $200. Quickly down to $50 and then a comeback to $130 before I had to leave. All in all, 1x odds rather than 5x odds probably saved me about $500 and a bitter end to the trip. So that worked out vey well. Once I start a craps session, I don't vary. I know it doesn't matter mathematically, but psychologically I prefer it that way. I don't vary bets (e.g., between PL and DP) or odds (either it's all 5x, 10x, 3-4-5x or 1x)

Walked to Trop. Me and friend got back on the stadium gaming for an hour. This time we got some drinks. He tried craps on the stadium gambling. He commented that he understood now what I meant when I said craps PL has fewer bet resolutions per hour than BJ. Still, he seemed to prefer BJ and switched to that. I won $30, he won $20 and we called it a day.

Went to Chicky & Petes for lunch. That was really excellent. The Due for a Win guys talk about it a lot, but I had never been to one. We got the crab fries and I got a roast beef with broccoli rabe and cheese sauce (?). Really excellent sandwich and cheap at like $9. I was very impressed. Fries were excellent, but I wish there was more Old Bay. I lived in Baltimore for years and appreciate a ton of Old Bay. Still, I'd 100% go back anytime i'm at Trop.

Got in the car and left. Self-parking was $10 with a Cesar's Local card.

Overall trip results

Not counting tips and other incidentals, my gambling result was a very modest $11 loss. So, not a winner, but felt good after starting off $500 in the hole. I prob had a Theo of somewhere around $60-70, mostly from the $25 Tiles.

I estimate I played about 3 hours of craps, 2 hours of Tiles, 2 hours of VP and maybe 2 hours of Stadium BJ over the course of the trip.

Quote: 100xOdds

i have $125 slot play at Ballys on multiple days but im not going till the diamond lounges are open.

Ballys & Caesars Laurel (Diamond) lounges are open, but without buffets - table service from menus.

Harrahs moved their DL from the valet parking area to the Coastal Craft restaurant.

Quote: DRich

Do you live far from there?
I have a regular dillema of how much time I am willing to invest for "x" amount of freeplay. I regularly get between $100 and $300 free play per week for a casino 90 miles away. How often do I go? It just depends, some days I will go for $140 and some days it might take $240 to go. It costs me about 3.5 hours round trip to collect it.

3.5hr drive each way
but i have relatives in nyc (2hrs from ac).
time my stay in ac for 2-3 nights such that pick up the $125 free play for current period and the next period.
then goto nyc for a few nights, then back to ac for 1 overnight for $125 then back home.

Quote: Gandler

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: Gandler

smoking in NJ is pretty much prohibited everywhere (even many outdoor areas such as beaches), and NJ has been looking for an excuse to ban smoking in casinos since the mid 2000s, I fear this may be it.

I'm happy this may be it!

As a nonsmoker (as I am by the way except when I am at casinos) you already have the vast majority of the building to be free of smoking. I don't understand why so many feel this is unfair.

You can't have it both ways. I think that you are a former smoker and won't admit it.

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: Gandler

Quote: FatGeezus

Quote: Gandler

smoking in NJ is pretty much prohibited everywhere (even many outdoor areas such as beaches), and NJ has been looking for an excuse to ban smoking in casinos since the mid 2000s, I fear this may be it.

I'm happy this may be it!

As a nonsmoker (as I am by the way except when I am at casinos) you already have the vast majority of the building to be free of smoking. I don't understand why so many feel this is unfair.

You can't have it both ways. I think that you are a former smoker and won't admit it.

I use non-tobbaco nicotine products regularly (former dipper).

There is nothing for me to "admit" , I have been very open about my former tobacco / current nicotine use on here and DT.

I am mostly a former dipper (gross habbit), and kind of a former smoker (mostly when in countries where smokeless tobacco is illegal).

I love nicotine and plan to continue to use safer tobacco free nicotine alternatives for the foreseeable future, including gum, lozenges, nic pocuhes (my current favorite), and even patches occasionally. I don’t consider whyself a tobacco user currently because I use tobacco free nicotine infused products.

So yes I am a former smoker (though more of a former dipper).
However, I do like to smoke one place, casinos, I buy a pack of Lucky Strikes before I go (partly because of the irony of the name, partly because I don’t like filtered cigarettes when I do smoke).

I am not sure how any of that invalidates my argument, that a city-level 25/75 solution is very fair. Most of the casino is nonsmoking (in AC), you have 75% of the floor if you don't like 2nd hand smoke....

There are countries that allow smoking but ban smokeless tobacco products? That seems ass backward.

Quote: billryan

There are countries that allow smoking but ban smokeless tobacco products? That seems ass backward.

Every country in the EU (Sweden is the one exception as they were grandfathered in due to snus).

Also, many Islamic countries (due to spitting prohibitions).

Quote: Gandler

Every country in the EU (Sweden is the one exception as they were grandfathered in due to snus).

Also, many Islamic countries (due to spitting prohibitions).

Thanks. I had no idea.

Quote: billryan

Thanks. I had no idea.

In much of the world if you are hooked on nicotine, smoking is your only option. I am not 100% sure but I think even Australia and New Zealand have a ban on smokeless tobacco (never been to either).

Outside of America and Canada (and even in Canada dip is very heavily regulated, somebody recently told me Copenhagen and Skoal -kind of the dip equivalent of Marlboro and Camel, popular "premium" brands, except they are not competing, same owner, for those that don't dip- is now over 25-30 USD a can in much of Canada, versus, 2-3 USD in much of America, and if I recall correctly the cans are slightly smaller, but I might be remembering wrong this was years ago and even then it was over 15 USD for "cheap" brands, in any case a can of dip costs far more than a pack of the most expensive cigarettes, if you dip and visit Canada bring plenty with you, total rip off), anyway, outside of U.S. and Canada dip and chewing tobacco is heavily stigmatized (even if it is non-arguably "safer"). And, that is not even counting snus (which takes out the need to spit which is what turns most people off, and is far safer than dip and chew, even according to the FDA which allowed some approved brands to label themselves as reduced harm).

But, yeah smokeless tobacco is a very North Americans thing (and Swedish if you count snus). Its a shame, because it can save a lot of smokers if they were able to switch, but weird trade rules and stigma based laws make smokeless tobacco an option not available in much of the industrialized world outside of North America. Even in countries where you can still smoke virtually everywhere, smokeless tobacco is not to be found. The reason vaping is so popular in other countries is because that is the only legal alternative to smoking for many (U.K. for example had a massive vape surge, but now that it is out of the EU, it will be interesting to see if smokeless tobacco will once again be allowed back).

In any case, that is my view on smokeless tobacco (better than smoking if you have to use tobacco, using tobacco-free nicotine products better still), and more countries need to rethink their tobacco restrictions (especially countries with huge populations of smokers).

But, to return to my original point, casinos are supposed to be a place where you can let loose and do things that you cannot do anywhere else, smoking should be allowed in at least a segment of it (again I think the 25/75 compromise was very fair for AC, and other cities can make rules that suite them, we don't need a state level ban). I think that this should be something that should be regulated by local government based on the needs and desires of the local market (for example AC briefly experimented with a total ban, did not work, so they made the 25/75 rule).

Quote: Gandler

In much of the world if you are hooked on nicotine, smoking is your only option. I am not 100% sure but I think even Australia and New Zealand have a ban on smokeless tobacco (never been to either).

Outside of America and Canada (and even in Canada dip is very heavily regulated, somebody recently told me Copenhagen and Skoal -kind of the dip equivalent of Marlboro and Camel, popular "premium" brands, except they are not competing, same owner, for those that don't dip- is now over 25-30 USD a can in much of Canada, versus, 2-3 USD in much of America, and if I recall correctly the cans are slightly smaller, but I might be remembering wrong this was years ago and even then it was over 15 USD for "cheap" brands, in any case a can of dip costs far more than a pack of the most expensive cigarettes, if you dip and visit Canada bring plenty with you, total rip off), anyway, outside of U.S. and Canada dip and chewing tobacco is heavily stigmatized (even if it is non-arguably "safer"). And, that is not even counting snus (which takes out the need to spit which is what turns most people off, and is far safer than dip and chew, even according to the FDA which allowed some approved brands to label themselves as reduced harm).

But, yeah smokeless tobacco is a very North Americans thing (and Swedish if you count snus). Its a shame, because it can save a lot of smokers if they were able to switch, but weird trade rules and stigma based laws make smokeless tobacco an option not available in much of the industrialized world outside of North America. Even in countries where you can still smoke virtually everywhere, smokeless tobacco is not to be found. The reason vaping is so popular in other countries is because that is the only legal alternative to smoking for many (U.K. for example had a massive vape surge, but now that it is out of the EU, it will be interesting to see if smokeless tobacco will once again be allowed back).

In any case, that is my view on smokeless tobacco (better than smoking if you have to use tobacco, using tobacco-free nicotine products better still), and more countries need to rethink their tobacco restrictions (especially countries with huge populations of smokers).

But, to return to my original point, casinos are supposed to be a place where you can let loose and do things that you cannot do anywhere else, smoking should be allowed in at least a segment of it (again I think the 25/75 compromise was very fair for AC, and other cities can make rules that suite them, we don't need a state level ban). I think that this should be something that should be regulated by local government based on the needs and desires of the local market (for example AC briefly experimented with a total ban, did not work, so they made the 25/75 rule).

I’m a weirdo that chews nicotine gum almost daily yet never smoked.

There are plenty of tobacco free nicotine products on the market, like tobacco free nicotine snus pouches that are getting popular.

About twenty years ago, I was at JFK airport waiting on a flight to Puerto Rico when I bought a bottle of water from a concession stand.
I took a swig of it and it tasted like it came out of a sewer. Thats when I noticed the brand. It was called Nica-water and when I read the label it was water infused with nicotine, designed for smokers to get their buzz while not smoking. I'm pretty sure it never caught on, as I have not seen it in years.

Quote: billryan

About twenty years ago, I was at JFK airport waiting on a flight to Puerto Rico when I bought a bottle of water from a concession stand.
I took a swig of it and it tasted like it came out of a sewer. Thats when I noticed the brand. It was called Nica-water and when I read the label it was water infused with nicotine, designed for smokers to get their buzz while not smoking. I'm pretty sure it never caught on, as I have not seen it in years.

This made me curious. I never heard of it before.

Apparantly it was banned (in the U.S.) in 2002:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fda-shuts-off-nicotine-water-spigot/


But, yeah that does not sound appealing to me.