The decline of value in downtown LV

Just returned home from my first trip to LV in 9 months and was surprised by the decline in value that has happened over the past year.

Examples:

1. MSS used to give you a coupon book at check-in that would get you the buffet for $2 for breakfast or $3 for lunch or dinner. Enough coupons to get through a weekend when I go by myself. That has now been replaced with a $25 dining credit which got me two breakfasts.

2. MSS has dropped the pay tables on UX video poker. TDB went from 9-6 to 9-5.

3. The 4 Queens has gone to 6-5 BJ with tables minimums as low as $5. The $25 table was single deck 6-5. They had one $15 table that paid 3-2. Didn't see how many decks.

4. The Fremont has a mix of 6-5 and 3-2 tables now.

5. The Golden Nugget has 6-5 in their party pit.

6. The general VP returns at The Cal are lower since the remodel.

To me it's a recursive loop. The tighter they get with gambling/drinks/etc in general, the fewer the people that will go/gamble/etc, and thus the need for the bean counters to try to think of more ways to squeeze more juice out of existing money makers... Thus, tighter slots/VP, fewer/declining comps, worse or no mailers, and worse odds on table games/etc. Then the cycle continues...

IMO, it all goes back to the idiotic wall street thinking of "I made X last year, so next year my goal is X + 10%." You simply can't grow every damn year forever and there will eventually be a market cap and instead of RUINING your business by trying to cut cost to get that increase, how about keep a happy customer base and a successful business?

I agree completely

Quote: Romes

To me it's a recursive loop. The tighter they get with gambling/drinks/etc in general, the fewer the people that will go/gamble/etc, and thus the need for the bean counters to try to think of more ways to squeeze more juice out of existing money makers... Thus, tighter slots/VP, fewer/declining comps, worse or no mailers, and worse odds on table games/etc. Then the cycle continues...

IMO, it all goes back to the idiotic wall street thinking of "I made X last year, so next year my goal is X + 10%." You simply can't grow every damn year forever and there will eventually be a market cap and instead of RUINING your business by trying to cut cost to get that increase, how about keep a happy customer base and a successful business?

Yep, and it's certainly not isolated to just downtown Vegas. The minute I saw the MGM and Caesars start charging for parking, I thought to myself "oh boy, here we go". Admittedly Caesars properties have been bad for quite some time (I stopped playing there after my last craps session when the pit boss told me I played for 3 hours and 5 minutes for an average wager of $325 and I got a whopping $5 of credit, lol). Yeah, I know it didn't quite hit the 4 hours they like, but seriously $5?! And discounted (not comped) rooms was all they ever offered me. Quite a few people I know won't play at the Wynn any more due to Steve Wynn insistence on only offering double odds at all but his $100 minimum craps tables.

My comps were much better in Tahoe at some of the non-Caesar properties, but now they're started to penny pinch too. Ultimately, I just find somewhere else to play (in the case of Tahoe, I've started looking at Reno properties). Ultimately it's called being penny wise and pound foolish. People do notice these little subtleties that casino do to give them a better house advantage and adjust accordingly.

Vegas and Value have been sprinting in opposite directions for quite awhile now. Downtown is no exception.

I am staying Downtown in early June and have found The D to be good place to find 3:2 BJ in the past for $10 minimum. I think that is fair. Plaza had $5 min 3:2 BJ on my last visit in January, don't know if that still is available. $5 min Craps at lots of properties Downtown...for me Downtown is still the only place in Vegas to get a good deal on the gamble as far as table games go.

With all the regional properties around the country, Las Vegas is becoming less about gambling and more about the other amenities, shows, restaurants & vibe. But if you want a good gamble while in town it is best to be Downtown or at Stations/Boyd properties as well. I think Penn Nationals "The M" is a nice place to play, but a long way from the strip...ditto for Red Rock (Stations).

Yes, it is still really easy to find 3:2 BJ downtown. But I suspect it is just a matter of time. I was stunned to see an ad for the Golden Gate saying that all their BJ was 3:2. Who would have ever thought you would need to advertise that?

Quote: rsactuary

...Golden Gate saying that all their BJ was 3:2.

Yep, 3/2 and shuffled at the dealers discretion of anytime a count goes positive (at least a couple years ago when I was messing around downtown with my brother on vacation).

Downtown will eventually go 6:5, then the strip will eventually go even money (in another 10-20 years), then so will downtown... etc, etc.

I was downtown in March and will be happy if my next 100 days spent in Vegas don't include any days downtown.

Get some good weed stores downtown and I'll be back. Then a walk to the Donut Bar to cure the munchies...

double post. Deleted.

The beer scene is good downtown with a few decent breweries. Check out: Chicago in Four Queens, Triple 7 in MSS and Banger on Fremont. Also Hop Nuts in the Arrs District. Good reasons to still visit DT if you like to visit new breweries, even if the gambling is getting worse.

Folks downtown figure its like running from a bear. They don't have to outrun it, just beat their competition. They still offer better value than the strip, and these days offer affordable alternatives to the clubs that charge $20 to get in and $600 for bottle service.