TR: Back in the LV groove

Didn't you win something before and didn't
use it and sturm and dranged about it till
the next time you went to Vegas and it
turned out not so good? Get ahold of
somebody who knows VP and have
them coach you, how long can it take
on a $100 machine.

Quote: EvenBob

Didn't you win something before and didn't
use it and sturm and dranged about it till
the next time you went to Vegas and it
turned out not so good? Get ahold of
somebody who knows VP and have
them coach you, how long can it take
on a $100 machine.

You can't handle the suspense of waiting until a future trip to find out the result? :-)

Quote: aceofspades

FSP expires in May of 2016

Leaving town in a few hours - awwwwww Vegas I will miss thee

Seems like a ridiculously long time period for FSP...but at least you're not forced to play it off this trip. Study up on a little VP or something. It's the crack of casino gambling! ;)

Thanks for sharing!

Quote: rdw4potus

You can't handle the suspense of waiting until a future trip to find out the result? :-)

I just know how these things build up and
up in anticipation and when you finally play
them it's usually a letdown. It's happened
to my wife a couple times, it's not worth the
wait.

Yeah, waiting months to cash out free slot play is a good way to get burned.

Keep in mind the casino usually reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of their rewards program, including free play and it's expiration date.

At least with CET once it is issued I do believe it is good as stated until the expire date. Not sure about MGM, always received promo chips there at B and Mirage, but have not played there in all of 2014.

If you do 1 pull for 5k on the machine, film it for us.

It will help me with my feelings of guilt after I went off the reservation and lost 40 dollars on a Wonder Woman slot machine.

Quote: Perdition

If you do 1 pull for 5k on the machine, film it for us.

It will help me with my feelings of guilt after I went off the reservation and lost 40 dollars on a Wonder Woman slot machine.

What's the story behind that...?

Quote: aceofspades

What's the story behind that...?

Well it was long and pretty complicated.

I saw a Wonder Woman slot machine and I was like "I want to play that!"

I played it and lost 40 dollars.

I felt guilty after. :(

The end.

Quote: Perdition

Well it was long and pretty complicated.
I saw a Wonder Woman slot machine and I was like "I want to play that!"
I played it and lost 40 dollars.
I felt guilty after. :(
The end.

You poor guy, what a devastating story. I
choked back a sob.. Better you than me.

Quote: sc15

Yeah, that's true, the low humidity (along with alcohol.. especially alcohol) does tend to suck the water out of you (especially your skin)

It was just above freezing when I ran than Vegas half marathon, but I dehydrate pretty well by the time I finished, even though I drank my normal amount of liquid for a run. Much drier than I am used to out here by the ocean in the rainforest.

Quote: thecesspit

It was just above freezing when I ran than Vegas half marathon, but I dehydrate pretty well by the time I finished, even though I drank my normal amount of liquid for a run. Much drier than I am used to out here by the ocean in the rainforest.

That sounds like really crappy conditions to run a marathon in. Cold AND dry.

Quote: RS

I asked my host at the El Cortez to print out the illustrious 18 onto an index card for me.

Now that's some high comedy right there...

So here I am back in NY - having landed late last night. The jet lag got to me and I basically slept the day away—drifting in and out of consciousness while a Law & Order marathon played on the television…

Looking back, the trip started out as "can't lose"
However, I would soon learn that this trip's version of "can't lose" was more in line with Revel's "You can't lose" promotion than the truth
Things took a decided downturn my last evening at the GN
Friday was going well, including a great dinner at DelMonico's steakhouse at the Venetian, but, alas, Ace, Sr. fell ill and it was, fortunately enough, merely severe dehydration
Saturday was a so-so day until the "Saturday swoon" hit me and I could win nary a hand
It took all day Sunday and a min-session on Monday morning to get a little over halfway home
All in all, a good trip, filled with the usual roller coaster ride that is blackjack, but one filled with a great time with family!

I hope you all enjoyed the TR and cannot wait til I can do it again!

Quote: aceofspades

Looking back, the trip started out as "can't lose"
!

So you're down 4000 in BJ, with a 5000 slot ticket?

Quote: EvenBob

So you're down 4000 in BJ, with a 5000 slot ticket?

Pretty much :)

Thanks for sharing ace, from a fan. Win or lose, you da man.

Real glad Sr is OK, very uneasy reading along, can't imagine how tough it was for you.

Quote: aceofspades

I hope you all enjoyed the TR and cannot wait til I can do it again!

Looking forward to the next report, I'm sure many others are too. Thanks again.

Quote: coachbelly

Thanks for sharing ace, from a fan. Win or lose, you da man.

Real glad Sr is OK, very uneasy reading along, can't imagine how tough it was for you.



Looking forward to the next report, I'm sure many others are too. Thanks again.

I am humbled by your praise.
Thank you for your thoughts about my pops.

I am anxiously awaiting my next TR as well :)

As always, thanks for the exciting report. We can't win every time, or they'd stop offering the game ;). I'm just wondering who will have the next TR, you or me =D.

Quote: Romes

As always, thanks for the exciting report. We can't win every time, or they'd stop offering the game ;). I'm just wondering who will have the next TR, you or me =D.

Hmmmmmm - depends if it is AC or Vegas

Thanks for the TR, Ace. Glad to hear your father's problem was not serious and that he is doing better.

Care to tease us with your plans for the slot ticket? Certainly not the most prudent, nor what you are probably inclined to do, but I would love to see it invested in 1 pull on the 5k slot! ;)

Just read this TR. Thanks for taking us along on your ride. Sorry you and your Mom had to go through your Dad falling to the floor. Must have been surreal as it was for me when that happened to my Dad many times. Running the ticket thru a $5.00 or 25.00 machine or a 5.00 VP machine would be very entertaining and you just might get 5k or more out of it! Thanks again.

They talked about Ace on the radio show
on Thurs. His $5000 win and what to do
with it.

http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/baxter.mp3

Quote: EvenBob

They talked about Ace on the radio show
on Thurs. His $5000 win and what to do
with it.

http://www.slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/baxter.mp3

My small time celebrity continues to grow lol

Munchkin made you an offer, at least.

Quote: EvenBob

Munchkin made you an offer, at least.

There are better offers out there

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: JimRockford

Quote: sodawater

Quote: aceofspades

I don't get this...they have those bowls of candies and snacks by the elevator that everyone just sticks his hand in? Especially coming back from the casino with grossly unwashed hands handling currency and chips?

That's so gross. Health inspector should not allow this.

Each bowl has a spoon in it for the health inspector. However not everyone will use the spoon. I agree, it's gross.

Yikes. Here I was thinking that was in Ace's room and was just for him. That's in the hallway? No thank you.

I partake in the delights of the orphanage grade jelly beans and the chocolate covered raisins on a regular basis, and have not yet caught herpes. It is on the gold rush club floor with all the rooms being $150+, so in my naive mind that keeps the slobs out and for the most part ensures spoon-using sophistication in the clientele. Bon appetit!

Quote: Canyonero

Quote: Deucekies

Quote: JimRockford

Quote: sodawater

Quote: aceofspades

I don't get this...they have those bowls of candies and snacks by the elevator that everyone just sticks his hand in? Especially coming back from the casino with grossly unwashed hands handling currency and chips?

That's so gross. Health inspector should not allow this.

Each bowl has a spoon in it for the health inspector. However not everyone will use the spoon. I agree, it's gross.

Yikes. Here I was thinking that was in Ace's room and was just for him. That's in the hallway? No thank you.

I partake in the delights of the orphanage grade jelly beans and the chocolate covered raisins on a regular basis, and have not yet caught herpes. It is on the gold rush club floor with all the rooms being $150+, so in my naive mind that keeps the slobs out and for the most part ensures spoon-using sophistication in the clientele. Bon appetit!

I usually have an apple each morning on my way down to the casino floor. I almost always take a plastic cup full of peanut M&Ms and chocolate covered raisins as well to keep in the room. YUMMY!

The guest on Thursday on the radio show,
Billy Baxter, is the most interesting guest
they've ever had. What stories this guy
has, he's known all the famous Vegas
players for decades.

At the very end, he makes some great
comments about today's poker stars. He
doesn't name names, but he says he talking
about the guys at the top, so we know who
they are.

He says they can't play for high stakes if
it's their own money. They fall apart, so
they mostly don't play. They do the $10K
buy in for a tournament, and play their asses
off. But put them in a $40K private game
and they can't win.

This is just more evidence that the TV show
High Stakes Poker was totally faked. Nobody
was playing for real money, it was all just
for show.

Quote: EvenBob

He says they can't play for high stakes if
it's their own money. They fall apart, so
they mostly don't play. They do the $10K
buy in for a tournament, and play their asses
off. But put them in a $40K private game
and they can't win.

This is just more evidence that the TV show
High Stakes Poker was totally faked. Nobody
was playing for real money, it was all just
for show.

It is either that, or some C grade poker pro deperately trying to be relevant again. Sneak a peek into Bobby's Room or the Aria high limit tables during the WSOP. You'll find Billy must be wrong...

The display of snacks reminds me of Dotty's. They have little hamster feeding stations with cheez-its and M&Ms. I use a spoon, however I will bet 90% of the clientele at Dotty's don't, so I probably caught many diseases from that place.

I believe our man aceofspades wrote in to Bob and Richard on Gambling with an Edge.

On the 2015-01-22 show they answered an email question about a blackjack player who had won $5K in free play and wanted advice on running it through a VP machine.

Both hosts agreed that if you're not going to continue to play VP in the future, it's better to just run it through a video BJ or even better a video craps machine if allowed. Interestingly they didn't give any back-up advice if neither of those were available.

I tend to think that in terms of the time value of money, I would just find a high-limit slot and run it off in the fewest number of spins as possible. It's kind of a go big or go home strategy, which I would be okay with for $5K (I am okay with high variance).

But wouldn't learning "pretty good" VP strategy (say to get you to 95% on a decent paytable) be pretty easy, and better than running it off a mid-limit slot? If you wanted something with lower variance, I mean.

Quote: AcesAndEights

I believe our man aceofspades wrote in to Bob and Richard on Gambling with an Edge.

On the 2015-01-22 show they answered an email question about a blackjack player who had won $5K in free play and wanted advice on running it through a VP machine.

Both hosts agreed that if you're not going to continue to play VP in the future, it's better to just run it through a video BJ or even better a video craps machine if allowed. Interestingly they didn't give any back-up advice if neither of those were available.

I tend to think that in terms of the time value of money, I would just find a high-limit slot and run it off in the fewest number of spins as possible. It's kind of a go big or go home strategy, which I would be okay with for $5K (I am okay with high variance).

But wouldn't learning "pretty good" VP strategy (say to get you to 95% on a decent paytable) be pretty easy, and better than running it off a mid-limit slot? If you wanted something with lower variance, I mean.

Aria has both $1k and $5k slot machines -- would you really run it through on 5 spins or 1 spin, respectively?

Quote: aceofspades

Aria has both $1k and $5k slot machines -- would you really run it through on 5 spins or 1 spin, respectively?

I wouldn't. The chances of getting nothing is pretty high. $100 spins at the most.

But can't you just play jacks or better with wizard's simple strategy? That should be easy, fun, and more effective than slots.

Quote: Avincow

I wouldn't. The chances of getting nothing is pretty high. $100 spins at the most.

But can't you just play jacks or better with wizard's simple strategy? That should be easy, fun, and more effective than slots.

Yes...but I wanted to know what AcesAndEights would do with those high denomination slots available

I noticed Munchkin offered $4,100, like I did.

I'm still not sure why you would play it any different than you normally do? You play BJ anyways, so why not just play it on BJ machines as they said you're barley giving up much more than what you normally do. Bet similar to how you would on the live tables. perhaps your host will offer it in the good promo chips instead.

Quote: aceofspades

Aria has both $1k and $5k slot machines -- would you really run it through on 5 spins or 1 spin, respectively?

Personally, I would prefer to play it on a craps or blackjack machine, assuming the edge was reasonably similar to the physical games. I'm not sure if that option is available, though, or what the max limits were. Or if they had a single-zero roulette machine.

Without that option, I would absolutely take 5 spins on a $1K machine. First of all, that's some ACTION. I would be sweating on each pull. It would be fun, and it would be done quickly. My trips to Vegas are always a whirlwind and I don't play machines for a reason (I find them boring), so time is of the essence.

And if I came away with $0, I wouldn't be upset. It was free play awarded to you anyway, you could have just as easily gotten nothing!

For me personally, $5K is not an insignificant amount of money. But it is not so much that I'm going to worry too much about getting 90% or 75% of it back with a high degree of certainty. I would try to maximize the EV, minimize the time spent, and say f*** the variance. If I get $0, oh well, I can still pay the rent next month and I'll still have a gambling bankroll.

But I'm very risk-tolerant, even for gamblers. I essentially "gambled" $5K on marijuana stocks this year, which was fun. More fun because I "won," but I was okay with losing.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Personally, I would prefer to play it on a craps or blackjack machine, assuming the edge was reasonably similar to the physical games. I'm not sure if that option is available, though, or what the max limits were. Or if they had a single-zero roulette machine.

Without that option, I would absolutely take 5 spins on a $1K machine. First of all, that's some ACTION. I would be sweating on each pull. It would be fun, and it would be done quickly. My trips to Vegas are always a whirlwind and I don't play machines for a reason (I find them boring), so time is of the essence.

And if I came away with $0, I wouldn't be upset. It was free play awarded to you anyway, you could have just as easily gotten nothing!

For me personally, $5K is not an insignificant amount of money. But it is not so much that I'm going to worry too much about getting 90% or 75% of it back with a high degree of certainty. I would try to maximize the EV, minimize the time spent, and say f*** the variance. If I get $0, oh well, I can still pay the rent next month and I'll still have a gambling bankroll.

But I'm very risk-tolerant, even for gamblers. I essentially "gambled" $5K on marijuana stocks this year, which was fun. More fun because I "won," but I was okay with losing.

Cool. Me too. But, it is your money not the casino's. It is at least 4100 in your pocket! It is all relative but 4 or 5k is a month or two of your mortgage.. Sell it and if you decide to then play next month with it, cool... IMO. Good luck as im pulling for you either way and cant wait to hear or see what you did with it.

Right now I'd like to pay off Mother Nature to avoid Juno

On second thought my dog loves the snow so I wouldn't want to take that away from him

Quote: AcesAndEights

Personally, I would prefer to play it on a craps or blackjack machine, assuming the edge was reasonably similar to the physical games. I'm not sure if that option is available, though, or what the max limits were. Or if they had a single-zero roulette machine.

I concur with that, particularly the Craps. I think you lose a little bit of value with the single-zero Roulette that could be regained with Video Poker, although, your Variance with the Roulette could theoretically be almost nothing because you could just cover all 37 and knowingly eat the House Edge.

In this case, you would just bet in such a way that you bet the least on an unknown result. You pretty much lose $135 and walk away with $4865, or thereabouts, depending on how much you legitimately have to bet on the last play. Alternatively, you could add $0.55 of your own money (if it is $0.05/denom) and bet $135.15 on every number to Lock in a profit of $4,864.85. If the denomination is quarters, you could add $4.25 and bet $135.25 on every hand to Lock in $4,864.75. I doubt if a major casino such as Aria will allow it to be used on Roulette, though, but maybe.

According to VPFREE2, the best game is 9/6 Jacks which returns 99.54%, but you have to bet $25 a hand (minimum at $5 denom) which gives you 200 plays at a ton of Variance. More than I would want for these purposes.

The best game at the $1.oo denomination is 99.17% Bonus Poker which is $5/bet and 1,000 total plays. The Variance may well be low enough, I'd say that you have the kind of money not to worry about that Variance too much. Might only return 4K, but so what. Theoretical loss is $41.50, which is $93.75 better than the absolute win with the quarters idea on Roulette.

Craps is also a good choice, and you could decide what kind of Variance you want depending on how much you bet. I'm not going to do a full breakdown, but if you look at an Expected Loss of $1.41 for every $100 on the Pass Line, but the game has 3x-4x-5x Odds, then:

Point 4 or 10: 1.41/600 = 0.235% effective HE

Point 5 or 9: 1.41/500 = 0.282% effective HE

Point 6 or 8: 1.41/400 = 0.3525% effective HE

Obviously, you'll have some CO rolls that will either win or lose immediately, and thus all the money will be exposed to that 1.41% on those plays, but you'll establish a point on 2/3 CO's, so your overall effective HE will probably be roughly one-half of a percent...just shooting from the hip.

That said, I would suggest playing the Don't Pass because a CO 12 pushes. Since the Free Play on a push would just convert to money, this result is effectively the same thing as winning half. You would essentially be playing the DP based on bet made (1.36% House Edge) because the bet doesn't technically resolve, in the strictest of terms. You could also make off-setting Line bets (if the machine allows) and hedge the 12 in a way that results in a fixed return range, which would depend on the max bet and how everything rounds off.

If you're not big on Video Poker or think playing 1,000 hands would be too boring, might take you two hours with the strategy sheet depending on how little you know about VP, then just eat the loss and do the Roulette/Craps thing, or sell it to Axelwolf. I'm sure Axelwolf would be inclined to slide you a little bit more if he ran really well on it, he's that kind of guy...he's also the kind of guy who has a great chance of finding really strong plays with it, and we wouldn't be discussing -EV plays at all.

You could increase or decrease the Variance to whatever extent you want depending on the amount you bet. Since 5K probably isn't much to you, if you're not inclined to sell it, I'd say just do whatever you think will be the most fun...as long as it's not a God-awful play.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Personally, I would prefer to play it on a craps or blackjack machine, assuming the edge was reasonably similar to the physical games. I'm not sure if that option is available, though, or what the max limits were. Or if they had a single-zero roulette machine.

Without that option, I would absolutely take 5 spins on a $1K machine. First of all, that's some ACTION. I would be sweating on each pull. It would be fun, and it would be done quickly. My trips to Vegas are always a whirlwind and I don't play machines for a reason (I find them boring), so time is of the essence.

And if I came away with $0, I wouldn't be upset. It was free play awarded to you anyway, you could have just as easily gotten nothing!

For me personally, $5K is not an insignificant amount of money. But it is not so much that I'm going to worry too much about getting 90% or 75% of it back with a high degree of certainty. I would try to maximize the EV, minimize the time spent, and say f*** the variance. If I get $0, oh well, I can still pay the rent next month and I'll still have a gambling bankroll.

But I'm very risk-tolerant, even for gamblers. I essentially "gambled" $5K on marijuana stocks this year, which was fun. More fun because I "won," but I was okay with losing.

Playing a 1K machine is a huge sucker move.

Sure, the EV says you'll get 90% or so back, but any hit on those machines generates a W-2G. So You're throwing away over a grand in EV because of the tax situation.

Quote: sc15

Playing a 1K machine is a huge sucker move.

Sure, the EV says you'll get 90% or so back, but any hit on those machines generates a W-2G. So You're throwing away over a grand in EV because of the tax situation.

Not if you have enough losses to offset it.

Quote: AxelWolf

Not if you have enough losses to offset it.

Then it becomes situational.

You have to itemize to deduct it. If you don't itemize or your itemized deductions would otherwise be < your standard deduction you lose out. Also some states have unfavorable rules regarding this.

And large deductions, even if legitimate increase the likelihood of being audited.

Quote: sc15

Then it becomes situational.

You have to itemize to deduct it. If you don't itemize or your itemized deductions would otherwise be < your standard deduction you lose out. Also some states have unfavorable rules regarding this.

And large deductions, even if legitimate increase the likelihood of being audited.

I'm fairly certain Ace Itemizes, if not he probably should, most gamblers at his level and frequency do. Especially since he publicizes his BJ play. EITHER WAY, W2G OR NOT you're still supposed to report the money you win on the free play and pay taxes on the winnings. So the best EV game, is still the best EV game. Nevertheless I would rather grind out the money and give up some EV. IMO money is a tool. $4800 in guaranteed cash is worth more than $200 in EV(unless you are over bankrolled). IE someone like Mike shouldn't grind and give up EV.

If a low banked AP was in Aces situation(NOT saying ACE IS LOW BANKED, I mean 5k in FP) , he would be an absolute fool to play anything risky just to get max EV.

Quote: AxelWolf

If a low banked AP was in Aces situation, he would be an absolute fool to play anything risky just to get max EV.

Yup I played 9/6 Jacks $5 for some freeplay, before I found a better idea to play a lower returning game for lower denoms.

Quote: djatc

Yup I played 9/6 Jacks $5 for some freeplay, before I found a better idea to play a lower returning game for lower denoms.

NO YOU WOULDN'T. You know dam well what you would play.

The question is would YOU sell it right now for $4625?

Under the right situation I would give 4700 for it. However I would have to already be there and know 100% the casino wouldn't catch wind and create a problem.

Quote: AxelWolf

I'm fairly certain Ace Itemizes, if not he probably should, most gamblers at his level and frequency do. Especially since he publicizes his BJ play. EITHER WAY, W2G OR NOT you're still supposed to report the money you win on the free play and pay taxes on the winnings. So the best EV game, is still the best EV game. Nevertheless I would rather grind out the money and give up some EV. IMO money is a tool. $4800 in guaranteed cash is worth more than $200 in EV(unless you are over bankrolled). IE someone like Mike shouldn't grind and give up EV.

If a low banked AP was in Aces situation(NOT saying ACE IS LOW BANKED, I mean 5k in FP) , he would be an absolute fool to play anything risky just to get max EV.

There's what you're supposed to do, and then there's the real world.

Let's be honest here. How many people actually report their gambling winnings honestly if a W-2G isn't involved?

That's the WHOLE REASON the W-2G exists, to force people to be more honest about it.

I know a guy who won $50K in vegas and pushed his flight back 2 days just so he could make like 30 trips to the cage cashing 1 or 2 yellow at a time to avoid the CTR so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. (Which was dumb, because a CTR doesn't represent a tax liability like a W-2G does)

Quote: sc15

There's what you're supposed to do, and then there's the real world.

Let's be honest here. How many people actually report their gambling winnings honestly if a W-2G isn't involved?

That's the WHOLE REASON the W-2G exists, to force people to be more honest about it.

I know a guy who won $50K in vegas and pushed his flight back 2 days just so he could make like 30 trips to the cage cashing 1 or 2 yellow at a time to avoid the CTR so he wouldn't have to pay taxes on it. (Which was dumb, because a CTR doesn't represent a tax liability like a W-2G does)

Ace probably has enough losses to cover it.

If their someones not reporting honestly in the first place, then a W2G won't matter if they Itemize. W2G still not a factor.

It would only affect someone if they can't Itemize. Once they got a W2G they can now decide to do so, if possible.

Quote: AxelWolf

Ace probably has enough losses to cover it.

If their someones not reporting honestly in the first place, then a W2G won't matter if they Itemize. W2G still not a factor.

It would only affect someone if they can't Itemize. Once they got a W2G they can now decide to do so, if possible.

Yeah, but writing off a win (especially a big one) with bogus losses is a much bigger risk than just not reporting a win. The former increases your AGI (which increases audit risk) and results in a large itemized deduction (which increases audit risk). The latter results in the IRS just flat out not knowing you won. And random audits without cause are exceedingly rare.

And if someone's itemized deduction not counting gambling losses is < the standard deduction, and a W-2G causes them to itemize they still lose out.

Let's say if someone itemized they'd come up with 2K. Standard deduction is 6.2K. Your AGI minus any other deductions is 50K. You take the standard deduction and pay tax on 43.8K

You have a 20K W-2G and 20K of losses, you itemize for 22K. Now your AGI minus any other deductions is 70K. You take the itemized deduction and pay tax on 48K, which could be over a grand more in taxes.

Can we make prop bets on what Ace is going to do with the freeplay? Looks like the main options are:

-Low variance grind
-High denom slot
-Sell
-Forget about it // casino takes it away // expires
-Other??