Caribbean Princess 3/22 to 3/29

My wife and 6 of our kids went on a Caribbean cruise last week. If you have kids, spring break is a great time to go. There were about 450 kids from 3 to 17, so there were almost non stop activities for the kids and my wife and I got to have a lot of free time. If you are looking for a quiet cruise where you can relax at the pool, avoid spring break.

The first three days, we couldn't gamble, because the ship was stuck in the Houston Ship Channel due to an oil spill from collision. We missed 2 of the ports due to the delay, but we still got to go to Cozumel. We went to a national park called Chankanaab. It was pricey, but we decided to make the best of the day since we missed the other ports. We all went swimming with dolphins for about an hour, then got in the water with manatee. After that, we stopped for our buffet lunch, which was included, then we walked over to the beach and rented snorkel equipment. We did that for about an hour and a half before heading back to the port, where the kids and wife did some shopping and I bought a small bottle of tequila and a shot glass.

While at port, all of the machines were disabled, except for a machine called the Vault, which I've seen at shopping malls (by the name of Key Master). There is a key which you must get through an opening to "unlock" a prize. Because I've seen them at the mall, and my kids spent a few bucks in them, I had already researched them, and found that they are not a skill game even though they look like one. They are set to specific odds, and if a player lines up the key perfectly, the machine will move the key by 1.6mm to prevent the win. Also, if you get the key through the hole, there is no guarantee that the prize will unlock. The machine stayed pretty busy, and somebody won $100 during the cruise, although I'm sure that thousands of dollars went in. It was funny to hear people's stories about how they almost won.

They had a coin pusher game that had a few stacks of $100 on the side, but they were essentially held in place by a metal bar. Throughout the cruise, I doubt if the bills moved more than a few millimeters.

The video poker was OK given that they had a captive crowd. The worst game I found was a 92% deuces, but for the most part, $0.25 and $0.50 games were 95% and the $1 and $2 games were 96%. All $0.25 games were progressive, and most of them were stand alone progressives. The games at the bar were all linked, but almost nobody played at the bar. The best machine had the progressive at $1750 and a 0.5% contribution, which put the jacks or better at about 97.2%. All of the progressives were over $1000, so that was probably the reset.

For slots, they had several classics, but I only played one of them - Money Storm, and I lost $20. The games I recall seeing are Money Storm, Tabasco, Miss Little Green Men (old S2000 game with the little VFD display for the bonus), Denver Duck (which I've only previously seen at GLI about 10 years ago), China Shores, Lucky Lemmings (my wife's favorite), some quick hits games, many 3 reel games.

For table games, they had 3 blackjack tables, 1 Let it Ride, 1 3CP, 1 Fun 21, 1 Caribbean Stud, 1 craps table, and 1 roulette. They may have had 1 more $10 blackjack, because I'm pretty sure it was 8 tables plus the craps and roulette. There was also an electronic Texas Hold'em table.

Blackjack: for the duration of the cruise, there was one $5 table ($500 limit), one $10 ($1000 limit), and one $25 ($2500 limit). I never saw anyone at the $25 table. I didn't play that table, because I prefer to play with other players, and the rules were the same at all tables: 3:2, 6 deck CSM, no surrender, 1 card to split aces, cannot resplit aces, DAS, double on any total, dealer hits soft 17, resplit up to 4 hands. This makes for a house edge of about 0.616% They all had a "Royal Pairs" side bet, which I calculated to be a 10.7% house edge.

Most of the dealers were excellent, and the pit bosses were great - there was just one who stunk and I witnessed a few times where he took winning bets. When the players brought it up, the pit boss usually just had him pay the player without reviewing tapes. I only saw them review the tapes once, but the bet was a few hundred dollars. Also, one time, I busted and put up my next bet and the dealer paid me after he busted. When I pointed it out, he looked confused, but still put the green back in the rack. I got up to + $550 before losing back about $400.

3CP: $5 to $100; 5,4,1 paytable with 40,30,6,3,1 pair plus; and a 5 card bonus bet (about 10% house edge). They had an odd rule, to me: "When betting only Pair Plus, the bet must be double the table minimum." I only played this for a little while when there were no other players at the blackjack tables. This was dealt by hand, and hole carding would have been easy for a shorter person.

Let it Ride: Standard paytable except the royal paid 500:1 instead of 1000:1 for about a 3.73% house edge. 5 card bonus is the Wizard's paytable 6 - 26.93% house edge. 3 card bonus is the Wizard's paytable 1, except the mini royal pays like a straight flush (40:1 instead of 50:1) for about a 7.3% house edge.

Caribbean Stud: $3 to $250. Standard paytable. The side bet pays $25000 Royal, $2500 Straight Flush, $250 4K, $100 Full House, and $50 flush.

Roulette: American. $2 - $50 inside bets, $5 minimum outside bets.

Craps: 2x odds, $5 - $200 line bets, $1 minimum prop bet.

For a large cruise ship like that their games seem to be pretty bad, especially the 2 x odds on craps and the $2 bets on Roulette? Carnival has always had a reputation for ripping people off. I see them as very similar to CZR but simply on the ocean :)

Sounds like a good trip. What was the collision all about that caused the delay? Tankers?

Blackjack sounds ridiculously good. Considering how bad some of their games are, I'm surprised they offer 3:2 BJ at all.

Quote: tringlomane

Blackjack sounds ridiculously good. Considering how bad some of their games are, I'm surprised they offer 3:2 BJ at all.

Tbh, when last I worked on cruise ships, all blackjack was 3:2, everywhere.

Do you really think 6:5 will last at land based casinos? I don't :)

Quote: Tomspur

Do you really think 6:5 will last at land based casinos? I don't :)

In Vegas, yes.

I appreciate your optimism though.

" Do you really think 6:5 will last at land based casinos? I don't :) "

Mickey drinks a lot. What's your excuse ?

Quote: Buzzard

" Do you really think 6:5 will last at land based casinos? I don't :) "

Mickey drinks a lot. What's your excuse ?

How do you know I don't drink either???? :)

My reasoning is that it was already tried back in 2009/10 with very bad consequences for the casinos. They thought that by pushing up the HE, they would make more money. The problem is, the Blackjack drop declined and they were holding roughly the same amount of money.

Now it can be said that this particular occasion was a knee jerk reaction after the crash of 2008 and perhaps this one is better thought out but I'm not convinced. Blackjack players are like VP players. They don't ALL just throw their money over the table and hope for the best. I think it will affect the casinos drop and they will be forced to change back.

Again, just my humble opinion of course.

Well, the game has spread like wildfire since 2008. Venetian and Palazo the latest converts. Blackjack players are just as dumb in general as VP players. Ever see a bank of VP machine, 8/5 one side 7/5 other side and both just as busy?

In general gamblers are DUMB !

Horse players , back in 50's before exotics. Only the DD and one first race to make the chumps come early. Bitch and moan take at 15 percent was terrible. Why can it be 10 %? then exotics came in and the majotiry of bets face a 23-28% take. Gamblers are DUMB !

Forgot to add. don't take it personal

Quote: Buzzard

Forgot to add. don't take it personal

I absolutely don't :)

Just one thing, as mentioned before. THe 6:5 games did at one stage spread all through the strip and donwntown but they were quickly removed once the casinos saw their drops dwindling.

This is my point, the same thing will happen this time around. Market forces will dictate if the casinos canc ontinue to offer a sub par product (in the players minds and anyone else with half a brain :) )

Quote: Tomspur

For a large cruise ship like that their games seem to be pretty bad, especially the 2 x odds on craps and the $2 bets on Roulette? Carnival has always had a reputation for ripping people off. I see them as very similar to CZR but simply on the ocean :)

Sounds like a good trip. What was the collision all about that caused the delay? Tankers?

A barge collided with a tanker which had about a million gallons of oil. We heard that about 160,000 gallons spilled.

I was also surprised at the 2x odds, but the table was packed every night.

I took a cruise on Royal Caribbean a couple years ago.

The craps was 1x odds on regular nights. 2x on formal nights.

Great review, appreciated your detail. The blackjack surprised me.. that's pretty damn good.

Question on roulette... the "$2-$50" does this mean that $2 is your minimum per inside number or all inside numbers together? If it's the former, that's bullshit.

Quote: ahiromu

Great review, appreciated your detail. The blackjack surprised me.. that's pretty damn good.

Question on roulette... the "$2-$50" does this mean that $2 is your minimum per inside number or all inside numbers together? If it's the former, that's bullshit.

The $2 can be divided among spots. I was also surprised at the blackjack, and that's where I spent most of my time.

And who, pray tell, was watching the kids ?

With 6 running kids, I guess the oldest one is a teenager. They can watch themselves.

Sure. Why nothing could possibly go wrong on a cruise ship. No way.

Quote: Buzzard

Sure. Why nothing could possibly go wrong on a cruise ship. No way.

These days the same sarcastic viewpoint can be taken even of schools, malls and the like?

You can't protect your children wherever they go forever and a day. It is simply not possible.

We heard attacks in schools pretty often (with guns or knives), never heard one on cruise ship.

talking about BJ, I thought 6:5 is quite good. soon enough there will be 1:1 BJ games in casinos.

Quote: Buzzard

And who, pray tell, was watching the kids ?

The two teens had free run, and there was a teen center with activities organized until 1am every day. I didn't get to see those two very often, but I made sure they were in bed by 2. The others all had kids programs, sort of like daycare. The two youngest we had to check in and out and the middle two could leave if they wanted to, but they were responsible. The kid program had activities all day from 8am-10pm with a few breaks, and we used the program from 6pm-10pm on most nights.

Quote: pokerface

talking about BJ, I thought 6:5 is quite good. soon enough there will be 1:1 BJ games in casinos.

Actually, I'm not too sure of this.

There seems to be a point at which players do revolt. Obviously, the major two questions are "What is that point" and "What are Players".

Players are easily separated into the intelligent, math aware, analytical types as well as the "Party Pit" types, but even those who merely play slot machines seem to come up against a point in time where they look at their results and announce "I'm not getting the bang for my buck that I used to get".

So for blackjack there has been a rather long battle waged on this 6:5 stuff, with the casinos even boasting of it on their marquees in large style numbers. There have certainly been 6:5 Party Pits and even lower returns in some situations involving booze 'n broads.

With slot machine players its an ill defined feeling of no matter what bells, whistles and doo dads there may be and no matter how cute the graphics are and how appealing the various bonus situations are, there just comes a feeling of "ain't getting as much bang for the buck as I used to" or "ain't getting as much bang for the buck as I want".

Craps odds have often been low on cruise ships but then again, a cruise ship casino is usually but a very minor part of the ship's financial or footprint investments.

Gambling is changing as the gambling population changes and the gambling experience changes. Just as Vegas is learning to deal with Drunken Clubbers, so too cruise ships and local casinos will learn to deal with a mixture of players. I recently spoke to a young man and his bride in an elevator in Hollywood, FL. They obviously could have gambled in Brazil or flown to Las Vegas, but instead had chosen to have a gambling honeymoon in Florida.

Cruise ships may be slower to change than other venues, I don't know, but I fear everyone will soon be changing. The games, the attitudes, the ages, the commitment, the alternatives.... its all in a state of flux.

I hear you Flea and I share you concerns.

What I have always thought is, the best way to make more money (from a casino persepctive) is to increase the drop. The HE will take care of the rest unless you get hit by scams or serious weaknesses in your game protection.

How do you increase drop? Increase the amount of players who are willing to risk their hard earned cash. Offer 3:2 everywhere, including the party pit. Keep the minimums there at $25. Give the people AT LEAST 3:4:5 times odds, give them 10 times odds as long as you run an honest game, you will rake in the cash.

I fear all gaming establishments have become too tight because of the accountants bashing everyone for the bottom line. Casinos are no longer run by casino professionals but rather accountants who try and squeeze the last remaining dollar from your wallet. They have to realize that, at some point the younger generation (who are completely computer savvy) will migrate to other forms of entertainment as gaming simply doesn't offer any value for them anymore (remember here, value for money = amounts spent vs. time at the activity).

When I was on the ships the singe biggest gripe from the players was that, for $20 I never even got a cherry, or any bar payout. I had sympathy for them because I knew that their reels were set at 84 to 86%.....that, my friends is like putting your hand into the peoples pockets and removing the money from within.

People are going to spend what they are going to spend. At least make them believe they have a chance by giving them sometime in return for their investment.

Same with charging $20 for a drink at the bar in Vegas. Keep charging people that and you will see more and more people pulling a crate of Budweiser through the lobby at the Wynn.....

Thanks for sharing your experience on the high seas. I was on the Carnival Valor around the same time (3/23-30). The game conditions on my ship were generally as Mr. Crystal Math described - not surprising, since Princess is owned by Carnival. There were a few differences:

* We had seven blackjack tables
* We also had Face-Up 21, a double exposure game with almost playable rules
* There was one Poker Pro table and two Blackjack Pro tables

I didn't play any of the table games, but did play some Blackjack Pro. Hey, I'm a sucker for $3 minimums! These were only offered for a couple of days; it was at $5 the rest of the time. Didn't do too well, but that's all right.

We didn't make the nightly news and I got to see several islands in the Caribbean. Good times.

Quote: fremont4ever

We didn't make the nightly news and I got to see several islands in the Caribbean. Good times.

The bright side is that we're getting a 100% refund of the base fare and taxes plus a 25% future cruise credit.

Quote: CrystalMath

The bright side is that we're getting a 100% refund of the base fare and taxes plus a 25% future cruise credit.

Wow! That was very generous.
I seem to recall from my cruise that the fine print said that ports of call are not guaranteed, etc. so I'm surprised they gave anything at all.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Wow! That was very generous.
I seem to recall from my cruise that the fine print said that ports of call are not guaranteed, etc. so I'm surprised they gave anything at all.

I agree, they owed us nothing, except maybe port fees that they didn't have to pay. I'm sure they will be making a claim against the responsible party.

6 kids and 2 of them teenagers. Plus she has to put up with you. I hereby nominated Mrs. Math as Woman of the Year !

Quote: Buzzard

6 kids and 2 of them teenagers. Plus she has to put up with you. I hereby nominated Mrs. Math as Woman of the Year !

Hear, hear!

CM,

Sounds like a great cruise right out of the family marketing brochures; everyone got the attention they wanted at their level of entertainment, including the both of you.

Re: the refund. IMO, you kind of scored on the past cruises more than your inconvenience, though that was part of it. How many devastatingly bad national news stories has Carnival had over the past 5 years? At least 1/2 a dozen, I think. So they want to make repeat cruisers out of you, rather than have you tell all your friends and family (and forum buddies) how disappointed you were that they didn't deliver; they came through with apologies and tickets, rather than outright refunds, when before the rash of incidents they would have said "Too bad, so sad." (Which the other person said he's used to, and he's right, that's what they did). Well played, Carnival.

We have a cruise planned for August.....skipping ports wouldn't be as bad as a Noro Virus outbreak on board. That is what the cruise lines need to get their arms around. Just today there is this:

Crown Princess Noro Virus

Looks like Caribbean Princess has had its outbreaks as well. So it could have been worse CM....imagine trying to keep the kids on a regimen of frequent hand cleansing, etc.

We did an Alaskan cruise roundtrip from Seattle last summer on Norwegian Cruise Lines. I recommend that itinerary. The entertainment in the giant show room was usually pretty good, the highlight being the Tribute Act to Frankie Valley and the 4 Seasons. We played from time to time in the casino, and I think the BJ was the most reasonable game there. The VP was definitely on the stingy end of the paytable spectrum though, they certainly had a captive audience.

If the state of Alaska wanted to rake in some bucks, they should authorize a land based casino in the cities where the cruise ships stop. It could be open only during cruise season and still make a killing. I don't suppose any of our forum members are members of the state legislature and need some investors, er ah, I mean campaign donors !

Quote: beachbumbabs

Re: the refund. IMO, you kind of scored on the past cruises more than your inconvenience, Well played, Carnival.

Yes. Everything from Honeymooning Husbands being killed in the Mediterranean Cruises, to disabling ship fires, several days of floating in the hot sun without air conditioning or toilets, engine room fires while close to pirate waters, food contamination, etc. All the accountants had to do was look at their bottom line recently and be generous with free future cruises. The industry seems to have been reeling with misfortune.

I made an inquiry about a particular vessel and cruise line incident about a year ago and I got a prompt reply from their marketing department and a full and very detailed statement from their Corporate Counsel office a few days later. Very helpful, very polite and amazingly informative. They are reeling economically from several bad events and want to keep any potential future cruiser they can!

Yes, some of those retirees on the Alaskan cruises spend ten grand on each port visit. Gray's Harbor in Washington's Olympic Penninsula fought hard to get cruise ships to visit. Great for tourism but need wide harbor with sheltered shallow waters and some reasonable on shore excursions.