First AP Trip report. Help reviewing results please.

Made my first trip during the holidays. Stopped at 2 casinos. Bet Spread $10-40.

Casino 1: 6D, H17, DAS, DOA, No surrender

bjinfo tells me house advantage is 0.66%
qfit tells me house advantage is 0.54%

Casino 2: 6D, S17, DAS, DOA, Early Surrender

bjinfo: house edge is -0.19%
qfit: house edge is -0.3%

At first casino I was obviously at a much worse game, but I stayed for a bit because the dealer was dealing slowish, and players were drunk and slow so I had time to keep up with the count on my first time out. After 3ish hours I ended up +20$ after having to use cash to double down(didn't buy in with full bankroll. Was over $100 down though.)

I then switched casinos and noticed a significant difference at returns. I was getting hands much faster and had higher TCs, though I know I made a few errors. I ended up +32$ after about an hour.

I tipped a decent amount which is something I will have to reconsider. So +52$ after tips on my first AP trip felt good. As far as the errors, I can keep track of a possible mess up and take it into account on my bet spread and deviations in borderline cases. If I really wasn't sure If I missed a card, I just took one off the running count just in case.

Which of the numbers above is more correct? Second casino you could resplit up to 4 hands, and I don't know at the first. I've mainly just browsed the forum, but I know I've learned from some of you guys anonymously. Thanks.

Happy Thanksgivings Hope you will have many more. Congratulations.

Have you made it over to WoO? Odds/Blackjack there's a list of rule variations and a calculator. Blackjack isn't really my game so I can't help you a whole lot, but that should be a starting point.

Are you sure about the early surrender? Early surrender is very rare. There is a big difference in the value between early surrender and late surrender.

Rare? I thought it was extinct. If it is found the game usually has terrible rules.

Be sure to mention where that ES game is...the vultures will descend upon it post-haste, and it will be gone by next week :)

ES is extinct in the US.
But ES10 (Early Surrender except against Ace) is the standrad in many parts of the world where no holecard is used.
Ful ES (including Ace) with no holecard is rare but does exist.

Quote: Smartpart

I tipped a decent amount which is something I will have to reconsider.

No, win lose or draw you should tip a decent amount no matter what. Whether you do it because it is the right and proper thing to do or whether you do it at "cover" so no one will suspect you, is up to you.

A few quick notes:

1. Like KJ said, ES is rare. You're probably referring to LS, unless you're playing outside of the US.
2. A 1-4 spread will not beat the first game. Of course, it will beat a full ES game because you have an edge off the top, but again, those games are very rare.
3. Tipping can easily wipe out your edge. With a 1-4 spread, you likely have no edge to begin with, and with "decent" tipping, you are pretty much guaranteeing a -EV scenario. I like to tip as much as the next guy, just don't convince yourself that this is an "AP" play when you very, very likely are still playing at a disadvantage.

Still, everyone's got to start somewhere, and as long as you stay honest with yourself, there's always plenty of room to learn and improve. Good luck!

I don't think I was really beating the first game with any serious +EV. I don't know that I was necessarily at -ev though. Like I said, I played because the dealing was slow and I was able to ease into things. I didn't tip as much here. Like I said, I was quite down relatively, and got out when I was back up after a good shoe.

Second game must have been late surrender. I got to surrender once before peek, but I'm pretty sure it was a dealer error built upon a situation where a couple hands previous I surrendered and dealer accidentally hit me, but pit burned the card(I'm pretty sure that hand was peeked at.) There's no way the casino is playing at a disadvantage to BS. No wonder I was so mind fucked.

Also, I went in intending a much higher spread but minimums were 10 because of the holidays.

I was quite disciplined in my wonging out. I wonged out at first casino on one game after 6 aces came out in 1 round. with the dealer taking 4 to get 17. The TC wasn't quite -1, but I bailed anyways.

I think you're on the right track in that you are betting small, VERY small while you are still learning to keep the count. This is a very good idea once you've practiced at home a lot - gotta get into the casino at some point! (Although home practice is still a useful endeavor throughout your AP career.)

I echo everything that LG said - just wanted to give you some encouragement. You probably aren't playing with an edge with a 1-4 spread, but if you're not bankrolled to spread $10-$100, then it's still good practice and pretty much break-even.

As several others in this thread have pointed out. I think you mean late surrender. Early surrender basically doesn't exsist in the US. That said, starting small while learning the ropes of counting is the way to go. I think I bet nothing but red chips..spreading like 1-5 units for the first 6 months I was counting. Practicing at home is essential to honing your skills (at least for me), but nothing quite simulates the actual casino experience. Good luck and go get em.

I agree with vedman , but will add if you are getting your brains beaten in, on a simulator like on Wiz of odds, you might want to postpone that casino experience for a while. But when ready, do indeed " go get 'em " !

If I may give some advice:

1. I take it you are new to AP. There are better opportunities than card counting. I'm not saying that you should never count cards, but it should not be your #1 choice. Learn how to play every game in the casino. Learn how to play these games if you can spot a hole card. You don't want to be counting cards in blackjack if the mississippi stud dealer two pits over is flashing hole cards.

2. You need to spread more in 6 deck game. 1-4 is not going to get it done, and no one cares about your red chip action. You can get away with a lot more. Don't make it obvious, but there is no need to stop at 4 bets. Pressing bets when you are winning looks natural. Just don't increase your bet after a losing hand, and never increase more than 2x from one hand to the next, and there is no reason you can't go to 10+ bets. If you don't have the bankroll for $100 max bets then find a game with a $5 minimum.

3. Don't play that first game. It's crap. You need to be more selective. If you are there for entertainment it's fine, but if you are there for AP then you have to be willing to walk out of a casino without playing if there are no good opportunities.

4. In your description of the games, you did not mention the penetration. This is the most important detail. In fact, if the penetration is exceptionally good, that first game becomes playable (assuming you increase that bet spread)