Smartpart
Smartpart
Joined: Nov 3, 2012
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November 22nd, 2012 at 6:03:22 PM permalink
Made my first trip during the holidays. Stopped at 2 casinos. Bet Spread $10-40.

Casino 1: 6D, H17, DAS, DOA, No surrender

bjinfo tells me house advantage is 0.66%
qfit tells me house advantage is 0.54%

Casino 2: 6D, S17, DAS, DOA, Early Surrender

bjinfo: house edge is -0.19%
qfit: house edge is -0.3%

At first casino I was obviously at a much worse game, but I stayed for a bit because the dealer was dealing slowish, and players were drunk and slow so I had time to keep up with the count on my first time out. After 3ish hours I ended up +20$ after having to use cash to double down(didn't buy in with full bankroll. Was over $100 down though.)

I then switched casinos and noticed a significant difference at returns. I was getting hands much faster and had higher TCs, though I know I made a few errors. I ended up +32$ after about an hour.

I tipped a decent amount which is something I will have to reconsider. So +52$ after tips on my first AP trip felt good. As far as the errors, I can keep track of a possible mess up and take it into account on my bet spread and deviations in borderline cases. If I really wasn't sure If I missed a card, I just took one off the running count just in case.

Which of the numbers above is more correct? Second casino you could resplit up to 4 hands, and I don't know at the first. I've mainly just browsed the forum, but I know I've learned from some of you guys anonymously. Thanks.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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November 22nd, 2012 at 6:08:11 PM permalink
Happy Thanksgivings Hope you will have many more. Congratulations.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
ahiromu
ahiromu
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
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November 22nd, 2012 at 6:22:58 PM permalink
Have you made it over to WoO? Odds/Blackjack there's a list of rule variations and a calculator. Blackjack isn't really my game so I can't help you a whole lot, but that should be a starting point.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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November 22nd, 2012 at 8:19:57 PM permalink
Are you sure about the early surrender? Early surrender is very rare. There is a big difference in the value between early surrender and late surrender.
rainman
rainman
Joined: Mar 28, 2012
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November 22nd, 2012 at 8:36:43 PM permalink
Rare? I thought it was extinct. If it is found the game usually has terrible rules.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
Joined: Jan 5, 2012
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November 22nd, 2012 at 8:40:42 PM permalink
Be sure to mention where that ES game is...the vultures will descend upon it post-haste, and it will be gone by next week :)
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
AceTwo
AceTwo
Joined: Mar 13, 2012
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November 23rd, 2012 at 5:24:40 AM permalink
ES is extinct in the US.
But ES10 (Early Surrender except against Ace) is the standrad in many parts of the world where no holecard is used.
Ful ES (including Ace) with no holecard is rare but does exist.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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November 23rd, 2012 at 5:55:24 AM permalink
Quote: Smartpart

I tipped a decent amount which is something I will have to reconsider.

No, win lose or draw you should tip a decent amount no matter what. Whether you do it because it is the right and proper thing to do or whether you do it at "cover" so no one will suspect you, is up to you.
LonesomeGambler
LonesomeGambler
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
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November 23rd, 2012 at 1:59:36 PM permalink
A few quick notes:

1. Like KJ said, ES is rare. You're probably referring to LS, unless you're playing outside of the US.
2. A 1-4 spread will not beat the first game. Of course, it will beat a full ES game because you have an edge off the top, but again, those games are very rare.
3. Tipping can easily wipe out your edge. With a 1-4 spread, you likely have no edge to begin with, and with "decent" tipping, you are pretty much guaranteeing a -EV scenario. I like to tip as much as the next guy, just don't convince yourself that this is an "AP" play when you very, very likely are still playing at a disadvantage.

Still, everyone's got to start somewhere, and as long as you stay honest with yourself, there's always plenty of room to learn and improve. Good luck!
Smartpart
Smartpart
Joined: Nov 3, 2012
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November 23rd, 2012 at 2:15:51 PM permalink
I don't think I was really beating the first game with any serious +EV. I don't know that I was necessarily at -ev though. Like I said, I played because the dealing was slow and I was able to ease into things. I didn't tip as much here. Like I said, I was quite down relatively, and got out when I was back up after a good shoe.

Second game must have been late surrender. I got to surrender once before peek, but I'm pretty sure it was a dealer error built upon a situation where a couple hands previous I surrendered and dealer accidentally hit me, but pit burned the card(I'm pretty sure that hand was peeked at.) There's no way the casino is playing at a disadvantage to BS. No wonder I was so mind fucked.

Also, I went in intending a much higher spread but minimums were 10 because of the holidays.

I was quite disciplined in my wonging out. I wonged out at first casino on one game after 6 aces came out in 1 round. with the dealer taking 4 to get 17. The TC wasn't quite -1, but I bailed anyways.

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