Six Card Poker

Six Card Poker is a new game I noticed at the Venetian. Shufflemaster kindly provided the math report by Cindy Liu. I work with Cindy as well, who helped create my new page on the game.

So, please check on my page on Six Card Poker. As always, I welcome corrections, comments, and questions.

as always, thanks for the analysis on this and all of the games, and for providing this forum.

the only comment i have about this game is that i find it strange that
you can still lose a portion of your bet when the dealer does not qualify.
considering this occurs with a frequency of 0.000770,
i suppose it doesn't affect players' attitude toward the game very much,
but it seems a curious feature to include in the game dynamic for so little gain in house edge.

one thing i like about three card poker is that the dealer needs to qualify to win.
if not, you still get half your bet paid if you stayed in the game.
(though of course, that is highly unlikely following optimal strategy for 3CP.
i do have a friend who sometimes "gambles" and stays in with J-T)

i am surprised to see a carny game with such a low edge and low risk of ruin.
i would definitely give it a try, based on this alone.

No side bets? http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/docs/game_rules/6_card_poker.pdf lists 3: Aces Up,Two-Way Bad Beat, and a progressive.

Quote: WongBo

i am surprised to see a carny game with such a low edge and low risk of ruin.
i would definitely give it a try, based on this alone.

Ditto.

Wizard, any word on table minimums?

Nice game, I'd play it.

From the info we were given when we trialled it in the UK, the two way bad beat has a house edge of around 12%.

We did not offer the two way bad beat bet as it was felt to have too great a house edge.

A casino saying that a bet has too great a house edge. I was surprised too.

Wow! It's Croupier! Welcome back after 5 months since your last post. We have another WoVCon in nine days; can you make it?

Let me try to catch up.

If it were me, I would make the game like Three Card Poker, in that if the dealer doesn't open then the player wins the original bet and pushes the raise. This is akin to real poker, as if dealer folded after you raised. You win what was already in the pot (two Antes) but your raise bet is refunded. Why they do it like they do, I have no idea.

Lots of poker-based games have a low element of risk. For example, Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em is 0.526%. The games are still profitable because that figure is applied to everything bet, and that games involves a lot of raising, and player mistakes in strategy.

You're right, I left off the side bets, thanks for noticing. Since the comment was made, I added the Aces Up. The Two-Way Bad Beat is coming.

Table minimum at the Venetian was $5 on the Ante and $1 on the side bets.

Most importantly, welcome back Croupier! How have you been?

I got an email today from the Silver Slipper in Bay St. Louis, MS. Apparently, they're also now offering 6 card poker, complete with the Bad Beat and Aces Up bets.

A table on the two-way bad beat has been added.

Quote: Wizard

A table on the two-way bad beat has been added.

I'm not sure I understand. The player wins the bet if both she and the dealer have a pair of aces or better but either of them loses to the other?

The game seems a good choice fr those of us who like poker-based carnival games. The house edge is low enough, and one of the side bets is very reasonable for a sucker bet, all things considered.

Thanks for posting this.

More info here

Players win the Bad Beat bonus if they and the dealer get at least a pair of Aces, and they do not
tie each other. The Bad Beat is paid on the strength of the losing hand.

Note: Players win the Aces Up and Bad Beat bonus bets even if they fold.

The way I thought of it when dealing (even though we didnt use the bet, but Im a true professional) Is that it basically a form of insurance for your hand, so that if you for example have a flush, and the dealer has a better flush, you lose but still win (if that makes any sense).

And Im fine Guys, I'm now Assistant Card Room Supervisor at work and going through a Pit Boss training programme so my workload is double what it was before.Unfortunately, unless I win the lottery tonight or tomorrow, I wont be making WoVCon ][. Although I will be there in mind and spirit.

Quote: Croupier

More info here

Players win the Bad Beat bonus if they and the dealer get at least a pair of Aces, and they do not
tie each other. The Bad Beat is paid on the strength of the losing hand.

Thanks! That's very useful information.

Quote:

And Im fine Guys, I'm now Assistant Card Room Supervisor at work and going through a Pit Boss training programme so my workload is double what it was before.

Congratualtions!

Quote:

Unfortunately, unless I win the lottery tonight or tomorrow, I wont be making WoVCon ][. Although I will be there in mind and spirit.

Did you even buy a lottery ticket? ;)

Seriously, We'll miss you. But I haven't forgotten you instituted WoVCon to begin with. So while it goes on I'm sure we'll be thinking of you.

Thanks. And no lottery win. :(

Quote: Croupier

Thanks. And no lottery win. :(

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'll tell you what. I'll try to scare someone up to do the IP buffet challenge we didn't get to do last year. I want to do it before the IP morphs into the Horseshoe. If I can't find a wiling vict- er volunteer, I'll go it alone and try to come up with an objective review.

Quote: Nareed

I'll tell you what. I'll try to scare someone up to do the IP buffet challenge we didn't get to do last year. I want to do it before the IP morphs into the Horseshoe. If I can't find a wiling vict- er volunteer, I'll go it alone and try to come up with an objective review.

Wait... have they officially stated that Imperial Palace is becoming a Horseshoe?? I can't imagine Caesars wanting the Horseshoe casino model in Vegas, regardless of its brand statement outside of Vegas.

Quote: Tiltpoul

Wait... have they officially stated that Imperial Palace is becoming a Horseshoe?? I can't imagine Caesars wanting the Horseshoe casino model in Vegas, regardless of its brand statement outside of Vegas.

I've read rumors about it, as well as rumors that there's some minor remodeling going on. What I've also read is that Caesars rights on the Imperial Palace brand are due to run out soon, and they don't plan to renew it.

But are you interested in the challenge? The idea is to try as many dishes as possible at the Emperor's buffet, either for lunch or dinner, and rate them to see whether it's as bad as everyone says it is. The challenge part, of course, is eating there in the first place :)

Quote: Nareed

I've read rumors about it, as well as rumors that there's some minor remodeling going on. What I've also read is that Caesars rights on the Imperial Palace brand are due to run out soon, and they don't plan to renew it.

I think that rumor exists because of the three brands that Caesars operates heavily under (Harrahs, Caesars and Horseshoe), that's the only one that doesn't have a Vegas presence.

HOWEVER, Jack Binion made it very clear that the Horseshoe brand has to be relatively close to what his father, Benny, did with the brand (meaning hand written comps, good games, 100x odds on craps, etc.). This CLEARLY doesn't fit with the Caesars image in Vegas, which is notorious for having bad games, terrible comps and stingy offers outside of free rooms. If Jack dies unexpectedly, then I could see a change brewing, but for now, it doesn't seem likely to me that Caesars wants to incorporate Horseshoe.

Besides, Bally's would be the more logical conversion property to a Horseshoe. Its decor is already similar and they have a large area for poker. If they haven't done it by now, I don't see them opening it at all.

Quote: Nareed

But are you interested in the challenge? The idea is to try as many dishes as possible at the Emperor's buffet, either for lunch or dinner, and rate them to see whether it's as bad as everyone says it is. The challenge part, of course, is eating there in the first place :)

There is little to no chance that I would willingly eat at the Imperial Palace buffet. If someone paid for my meal, I would probably still pass.

Quote: Tiltpoul

This CLEARLY doesn't fit with the Caesars image in Vegas, which is notorious for having bad games, terrible comps and stingy offers outside of free rooms.

Well, I know nothing about that. One rumor came with an artist's sketch about how the revamped property will look like. I think it's part and parcel of the Linq thing, too.

Quote:

There is little to no chance that I would willingly eat at the Imperial Palace buffet. If someone paid for my meal, I would probably still pass.

I figured you were smart and sensible. I guess I'll just have to risk life and limb, or rather stomach and intestine, on my own ;)

Back on topic, I payed the game at the Venetian early on in my stay. The Wizard chastised me for it, with good reason. But I figure as carnival games go, this is a better choice, and more fun, than 3CP, which I'd played a great deal last time.

Unfortunately the minimum bet at the Venetian is $10. That's rather high for me for this kind of game, and I shouldn't have played it at that level. On the other hand, you can play the sucker bets for $1, which is attractive for a thrill.

That aside, the play was fun. The dealer loved me, too, because I placed side bets for her every few hands. One such bet hit on a 4 of a kind, giving the dealer a $30 tip. A woman working the floor for some reason stuck around the table for about an hour, standing right next to me. We made some small talk, and she was cheering good player hands. From time to time she'd press other players to up their side bets to $2 or $5. She also consoled me on bad hands. It was a lot of fun and I don't regret the money spent.

About the two-way bad beat, it does win whether the player beats the dealer or not. But the important point is that it only pays the lower hand. So when the Japanese girl at the table had a flush and the dealer had a pair of aces, she got paid 9 to 1. She was disappointed, as earlier she had a flush against a dealer flush and scored a 200 to 1 payoff.

I'd play the game again, if I ever found it at $5 minimum. There was some traffic on the table, though it never got full, and amny players left after a few hands only.

The Two Way bad beat is pretty fun

No other game has you rooting for the dealer to beat you.

If you have a straight, you root for the dealer to beat you with a flush..you get payed the Aces Up AND get $100 Bad Beat. At that point who cares about the $5 Ante and Play

Is this game still being played anywhere in Las Vegas? It used to be at Venetian, but I thought they got rid of it.

Thanks in advance

Considering the competitive house edge, I wouldn't be shocked they ditched the game. I really don't know for sure though.

Sometime ago I saw this game in Grosvenor Didsbury when it opened. I haven't been there for a while but presume it's still there.

It's here at Viejas.

http://discountgambling.net/

Viejas has two tables.

Save for Viejas and a few other properties, the game has underachieved.

The key is the bad beat. With a 10,000 to 1 top payout--albeit a trillion to 1 shot--most casinos have balked at anything more than a $5 max and a low aggregate.

We will unveil at G2E a new paytable with a 500 to 1 max payout. This should encourage higher betting maximums, a common denominator among casinos doing well with the game.

Maybe it will help and maybe it won't. Time will tell.

Quote: Pacman

Viejas has two tables.

Save for Viejas and a few other properties, the game has underachieved.

The key is the bad beat. With a 10,000 to 1 top payout--albeit a trillion to 1 shot--most casinos have balked at anything more than a $5 max and a low aggregate.

We will unveil at G2E a new paytable with a 500 to 1 max payout. This should encourage higher betting maximums, a common denominator among casinos doing well with the game.

Maybe it will help and maybe it won't. Time will tell.

It's a pretty strong game at my nearest casino (Ameristar St. Charles), Roger. Hoping the new table helps a bit. If you have the info obviously: Did you make the bad beat table just Full House or better? Or did you up the payouts on lower bad beats?

Full House or higher pays 500 to 1.

Lower payouts unchanged.