Ultimate Texas Hold'em Dealing

Ever since the wiz posted his strategy and practice game I can't seem to get enough of this game. I have played at several casinos here in Vegas and in Mesquite and I have noticed quite a difference in the dealing of this game.

At Santa Fe: Hand shuffle, dealer deals one card to each player and himself, then a second card to each player and himself then burns a card, then deals the flop, burns a card and then deals the final two cards.

At Aliante: Machine shuffle, deals all five community cards face down first, then two to the dealer and then two to each player.

At Silverton: Machine shuffle, two to each player then the dealer, then five community cards (I believe this was the pattern, but played there three weeks ago, I do remember this being different then Aliante).

I have also noticed that at some places that hand shuffle, they burn a card and some don't.

I am not saying this changes the house edge in anyway, but just as a matter of play I don't like the five community cards being dealt first.

Any reason for the difference?

The reason is that the shuffle machine doesn't know how many players there are. The dealer inserts the next deck, presses a button, and the community cards come out. Next the machine will deal out two cards at a time until it has dealt two cards to each spot and the dealer or until the dealer presses the button to dump the remaining cards.

If the machine dealt the two card hands first it would have to deal out all 6 or 7 hands before the community cards. If there were only one player at the table the remaining two cards hands would need to be discarded one hand at a time before dealing the three card and then the two card community hands. In addition the dealer would need to leave the final two community cards in the shuffler during the flop round of betting which is a game protection issue.

I suppose the shuffler could be programmed so that it required multiple button pushes per round, but if the dealer accidentally double pressed the button then extra cards would be dumped out invalidating the hand.

Ditto what PopCan said about the machines.

You're right that burning cards or not doesn't affect the edge - or even the game. Unless the cards are marked. It's unlikely that the cards are marked, but, given how paranoid casinos are, I'd be shocked to see a casino with a hand-dealt game that wasn't burning cards.

The new Shufflemaster machines CAN be programmed to deal the 5 cards last, doing 3, then 2. The iTable that I played at Southland did it that way. Incidentally, I hit a Royal and Straight Flush that way, so I'm all for it....

I am also addicted to this game. I prefer the hand dealing of the cards (a machine shuffles the deck but they deal out the hands/community cards by hand.) The only place that I have experienced that at was Mandalay Bay when I was there a month ago. I hate the machines because they always seem to hang on the dealers hand, which means the whole deck is considered a misdeal (the dreaded red light). For some reason that happens far too often at the casinos near me.
There is also something that feels classier about a hand deal rather than that stupid machine.

Interesting thread. I've been enjoying playing UTH on the WOV site, and I may play it on my next trip to Vegas (whenever that turns out to be). I think I'd much prefer to play a hand dealt game. From this thread, I see that Mandalay Bay offers this on the strip. I'd be interested to hear what other casinos on the strip or downtown offer a hand dealt game.

Yes, indeed. Interesting. It may be time for a "UTH Survey" for this page if the game gains more popularity. Here's a start.

Where I've played/seen the game:
Bally's. ($5)
Planet Hollywood. ($5)
MGM Grand. ($10)
Mandalay Bay. ($5)
Cosmopolitan. ($10)
Gold Coast. ($5)
Orleans. ($5)
Bellagio. ($10)
Mirage. ($10)
Aria. ($10)
Wynncore. ($10) (Played here last trip. Ouch! Got to remember to stick to $5...)
Venelazzo. ($10)
Jerry's Nugget. ($2)
Terrible's Town Parumph. ($2)
Parumph Nugget. ($2)
Las Vegas Club ($2, electronic version).
Binions ($2, electronic version, short paytable).
Silverton. ($5)
South Pointe. ($5)

All casinos have some variation of the 1.9% house edge Trips paytable, or worse. Bally's had the last 0.9% paytable in town, but got rid of it about six months ago. For the record, my favorite places to play are Mandalay Bay, and Gold Coast.

Add to the list:

Aliante ($5, 1.9 house edge on Trips, and automatic shuffler, bonus progressive)
Santa Fe ($5, 1.9 house edge on Trips, two tables w/hand shuffle, bonus progressive)
Silverton ($5, 1.9 house edge on Trips, automatic shuffler, bonus progressive)
M Resort ($5, 1.9 house edge on Trips, hand shuffle, no bonus progressive)
Virgin River-Mesquite ($5, 1.9 house edge on trips, hand shuffle, no bonus progressive)
Casa Blanca-Mesquite ($5, 1.9 house edge on trips, hand shuffle, no bonus progressive)
Eureka-Mesquite ($5, 1.9 house edge on trips, automatic shuffler, bonus progressive)

Based upon 4+ years of play experience:

Hand Shuffle: less Trips bonuses, Ante: player vs dealer about 50-50, win/loss is dictated by the house rules and edge.

Machine Shuffle: more Trips bonuses, but dealer gets more good hands for Ante. When a new player comes in, the dealer always gets a good hand - this can be done easily by the shuffler's software (i.e., the Pcount+1 hand is reserved for the dealer.)

Quote: UCivan

Based upon 4+ years of play experience:

Hand Shuffle: less Trips bonuses, Ante: player vs dealer about 50-50, win/loss is dictated by the house rules and edge.

Machine Shuffle: more Trips bonuses, but dealer gets more good hands for Ante. When a new player comes in, the dealer always gets a good hand - this can be done easily by the shuffler's software (i.e., the Pcount+1 hand is reserved for the dealer.)

Not sure where you play at, but if it's regulated by a gaming commission, then the bullshit that you speak of won't fly. Shuffle machines are equally as random as a dealer. Being human, you'd find it easier to blame the machine...

I asked this before and only Popcan responded but has anyone noticed anything about how successful they are at this game vs the number of players playing. I know it will not effect the math of the game but in a real setting does anyone seem to get more paying hands especially the trips bet when they are heads up vs a full table. I have had more success one on one with the dealer vs a full table. My sessions seem to go either way either I get killed or I win a fair amount with the house edge on this game being fairly low I did not expect it to be so volatile.

Also Harrah's has it with either a 5 or 10 dollar minimum and progressive bonus.

Quote: MrRalph

I asked this before and only Popcan responded but has anyone noticed anything about how successful they are at this game vs the number of players playing. I know it will not effect the math of the game but in a real setting does anyone seem to get more paying hands especially the trips bet when they are heads up vs a full table. I have had more success one on one with the dealer vs a full table. My sessions seem to go either way either I get killed or I win a fair amount with the house edge on this game being fairly low I did not expect it to be so volatile.

House edge is almost completely unrelated to volatility. As shown on the Wizard's strategy page, the average amount bet per hand is over 4x the ante bet. So if you're playing green chips at UTH, the volatility is approximately the same as black chip blackjack. Plus there are jackpot payouts on the blind and trips bets, which increases the volatility even more. Even if the house edge were zero, there is the possibility of winning or losing a lot in a short period of time playing UTH.

MrRalph, think of it this way. Why would it matter, particularly from a machine dealt game, if the excess cards went to other players or to the discard rack? Your chances of getting any particular hand are the same.

One big difference when playing heads up versus playing at a full table is that you'll get more hands per hour heads up. If you're getting three times the hands per hour you'll hit the trips bet three times as often (as well as lose three times as often). This is compounded by the waiting. If you hit a 10 hand streak of no Trips winner at 60 hph then that streak will end in 10 minutes. If you hit that same 10 hand losing streak on a 20 hph table then you're looking at an agonizingly slow half an hour.

At the end of the hour on the 60 hph game you might look back and think "wow, I got a flush, a full house, and a straight". At the end of the hour on the 20 hph game you'll think, "damn I played an hour and only hit a single flush" even though the win rate on the trips might have been the same.

thanks for the answers guys.

Add Suncoast to the list: Hand Shuffle, Trips side bet 3rd pay table house edge 3.5%, no progressive.